Accused of torrenting copyrighted material

3,143 posts in this topic

This person should see a lawyer like people suggested at the start and see what they say about it. Another reason why everyone should have Rechtschutzversicherung in Germany. It's not just for situations like this, it's that everyone else has this insurance and will take you to court over anything that comes to their minds.

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Hi!

 

I read on the news about a Similar case: http://www.golem.de/0905/66890.html

 

here is some helpful comments: http://www.urheberrecht.justlaw.de/abmahnung/constantin-film.htm (unsere rat)

http://www.anwalt.de/rechtstipps/waldorf-rechtsanwaelte-abmahnung-fuer-constantin-film-maennersache-baader-meinhof-komplex_004076.html

 

one positive thing here is that your son in underaged and even if you are the connection owner, you can't be always responsible for every thing.

 

My proposition:

1) contact the lawyer that sent you the lettre.

2) Tell him what your under aged son may have made.

3) find an arrangement: play 100-200€ and avoid going to court & signe a "ligth" unterlassungerklärung that you won't do this in the future (negociate something like 5 years instead of 50!!!)

4) de-instal µTorrent

5) go to the movies with your son ;)

 

Most of the user got rigth.

a) this is not a Scam

B) downloading a film is not a big problem, but while downloading everybody on the world could upload parts of the film from your PC.

One of them was working for FarCry productio Company and collecting IPs. with the IP they get the ISP. normally the ISP asks for a court decision to reveal the IP user, but I'dont know what this F*** T-Home is doing!!!

c) when you receive the letter it's too late. You need to fin an arrangement.

d) If you are un-sure: take a lawyer before going to COurt.

 

I'm sorry for what happes to you.

 

P.

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My proposition:

1) contact the lawyer that sent you the lettre.

2) Tell him what your under aged son may have made.

3) find an arrangement: play 100-200€ and avoid going to court & signe a "ligth" unterlassungerklärung that you won't do this in the future (negociate something like 5 years instead of 50!!!)

 

 

What the OP also needs to consider is that this might not be the only movie in question. It would be rather foolish to a) admit to the offense and B) pay money to make it go away, and then two weeks later she gets an additional letter from the same law firm.

 

Just in general, I'd find it not a great idea to admit to it ever, unless it is by signing an agreement that once and for all clears you from the allegations. But I am not a lawyer, they know that stuff better :)

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To edit the advise given by Poseidon...

 

1). Contact the law firm sending you the letter THROUGH your own Lawyer.

2). Tell your Own lawyer your son in underage.

3). Let your Lawyer handle it from now on. If you want to send the unterlassungs thing back, find one of the edited ones on the net that do not admit any guilt/accept any responsibility.

 

Or, let you Lawyer deal with it.

 

4 and 5 is your won choice.

 

The one word you need to look at is, 'LAWYER' - your own, go see one :ph34r:

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To distribute copyrighted material for the purpose of entrapment would seem a bit like entrapment to me. They would also need to have some agreement with the copyright holder otherwise they themselves would be infringing on the copyright. My understanding of the law in Germany is that no-one would be prosecuted for downloading material but that it's uploading and therefor distributing would be.

 

I'm quite interested in the argument about already owning a physical copy because it must be a lot cheaper to buy a second hand album or DVD than to pay a fine.

 

I'd also be interested to know if the OP was running Peer Guardian 2 whilst downloading/uploading the content.

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To distribute copyrighted material for the purpose of entrapment would seem a bit like entrapment to me.

Thanks for that, Captain Obvious.

 

> They would also need to have some agreement with the copyright holder

BZZZZT!!! Wrong.

 

> My understanding of the law in Germany

is completely unfounded and terribly misguided. Where did you earn your J.D.?

 

woof.

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Same with Safari, you can open the activity window and see the file which is clearly increasing in size and you can save that too

 

Tried doing that recently? Either my version of Safari (4.0.3) doesn't allow that, or Youtube got smart to it..

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Actually I down rated you, not for being wrong (Which you might actually be) but for being your usual "Pleasant" Asshat self.

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legality of Streaming copyrighted content... this is subject to the same law as Downloading - it is illegal.

I've been pondering the same thing as someone I know well has been watching a significant quantity of [probably copyrighted] material on the 'net. The first point is how do you know that the sender hasn't paid to be allowed to distribute the content? In the case of file sharing it's pretty jolly clear but with streaming there is simply loads of content legally available on any number of streams that you can legitimately watch world wide. So I find Lost or whatever else on a stream, how do I determine that I can watch it or not? Rhetorical question, and difficult to answer.

 

Secondly there's obtaining proof. Without the copyright owner/lawyer acting on their behalf having access either to your PC or the streaming host it is not possible for them to determine that your PC established a connection to the stream. I'm assuming that they can't go to an ISP and demand, 1984 style, to know all connections to a certain IP that accessed a certain content :o . Again with file sharing it is different, the content owner can simply attempt to download the content and see from which IPs the content comes, bingo they've got their criminal(s), but this doesn't work with streaming.

 

Not wanting to belittle your friend's niece's education but I'd be interested in a more authoritative answer, it seems streaming is a whole lot more cloudy than the rather clear cut case of file sharing.

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Actually it is still possible to get the video from the cache in Safari, the URL just looks different; so the question is: would I be doing something illegal by using a feature that is included in my browser?

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You mean by saving a file that was streamed to you? There's a simple answer: Technically yes, it's probably illegal (from a common sense appreciation of the law) because you have obtained copyrighted material without paying for it.

 

However there's the buts:

1) Nobody can be aware that you have obtained the copy, as I mentioned above.

2) Perhaps the stream was legitimate and essentially what you did was the same as videoing something off TV.

3) And this is the real crunch point: You're not making your copy, or partial copy, and your internet bandwidth, available to everyone on the internet to further distribute your [possibly/possibly not] illegal content. This is what makes file sharing over torrents very significantly different from streaming - while downloading over a torrent you are actively (either knowingly or not) helping to distribute stolen material.

 

So, while saving a file obtained from a stream may be technically illegal nobody will give a nuts about it. IMHO.

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Ok having read 90% of the posts on this thread, I have to address the OP first.

 

Yes I think this is nothing but a scam and you have nothing to worry about. Here is the reason behind my answer.

 

First of all I highly doubt someone is going to come after the user for just a single download, they are more concerned with those downloading tons of movies. Then there is the question of how did they pin point it to you. I dont' know for certain the laws in germany, but i'm pretty sure that before the ISP can give out your personal information they must notify YOU the customer, also they cannot just go give it to a law firm at will. It must be from a law enforcement agency, if that is the case your letter would have come from the state prosecutor not from a private lawfirm.

I do not need to go through your ISP to get your home address. simply knowing your Ip address, and having some sort of spyware on your computer, I can search through your files and email information and i'm pretty sure I can come up with your physical address.

 

Why would they tell you if you pay now you only have to pay 850 euros. Who is determining this? if it is a criminal case they the amount is fixed and it cannot be negotiated. If it is a legitimate legal case, then that 850 alone would not be enough to cover lawyer fees and things of that nature.

 

This all smells like a scam to me. I say you should write them back, ( dont' even waste your time getting a lawyer) asking them for legal proof of their claims, do NOT admit to anything, ask them to also provide you with any court documents pertaining to this matter. Also ask for a contact person at a law firm and call them... DO NOT SPEAK GERMAN to them, speak only English, that puts them in the hot seat and they feel a bit uncomfortable to start with cause most likely their english won't be at a level they are comfortable with.

 

Scammers send out official looking letters all the time, they even have real websites that look official as any other govt site, but it's very easy to clone a site and just change some information on it. Scammers often use real names of real agencies and real people to help their case look more legitimate. Might I suggest from now on you stream movies, its like going to youtube and watching a video, contrary to popular belief they cannot charge you or sue you for streaming. You are not downloading anything, you are not distributing anything, how are you suppose to know what rights the person who owns the website has for the film. for all I know they could have an agreement in place that allows them to stream a movie. Also if a friend invites you over to his or her home to watch a movie, are you going to get sued for that also, since you did not pay for the movie?

 

Don't let the posts on here that are telling you this is legitimate fool you ok. I highly doubt that it is. Once again Don't admit anything and even if it proves to be true, let them proove in court that you actually did download this, let them show records of you downloading, the speed at which the download took place, the time it started, and the time it completed.

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And for those who love to stream, there is a program out where you can record things that are streamed on your computer. so for example if you go to youtube and you watch a video, you can turn this program on so that it record any flash that's streaming. This program does not need to be connected to the internet in anyway, it only deals with what is showing on your computer, the only way internet comes in is the fact that to be streaming you have to be connected to the internet.

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I've been sent a letter demanding payment of E5,100.00. But if I pay before 18th it reduces to E850.00 for illegally downloading a film.. actually it was my 17 yr old who downloaded it, (among others). The letter stretches to 8 pages, all in german. I was hoping if there was someone out there who could look at it for me and pick out the relevant information, discarding all the legal blurb...

Has anyone else had anything similar? My husband is of the opinion to ignore it.But it does look genuine.

I really need to know what it says, Bablefish translation is no good for the legalities.

I could scan and email it, if some-one could help me.

 

So, what happened at the end? Did you pay either of the amounts, or did you get away with that?

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We were sent another letter after a month still demanding payment of E850 by 30.09.2009.

This we also ignored and nothing has come since then. Scam or real? I just dont know...

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Did the company spend cash sending the letters by registered post? If they come by normal mail, do remember that so much mail goes astray you may never have received anything... very difficult to prove that the mail arrives at destination these days. This stance is of course ruined if you contact the company.

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Didn't you go to see a lawyer about this? That was the only piece of advice on this thread worth reading.

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