Accused of torrenting copyrighted material

3,086 posts in this topic

 

BD, legally it doesn't matter if you have a copy stored or not.

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I haven't the foggiest.

 

No, you don't, mate. There is a huge difference between streaming and storing, especially since the stored download is often handled by a program which also then allow the same file to be uploaded from your machine, clearly violating copyright restrictions on publishing and distribution. None of the RIAA/MPAA cases have been about merely downloading. Every single win has been based on violation of laws concerning "distribution" and the copyright holders' exclusive rights to this.

 

 

In Firefox... if you go to Tools>Page Info>Media Info... allowing you to Save As underneath.

 

...with Safari, you can open the activity window and see the file which is clearly increasing in size and you can save that too

 

Why can't any of you muppets be bothered to read before writing?

 

The Flash wrapper most commonly used was specifically designed to prevent you from being abloe to access the actual content file and/or store it automatically or manually. There are ways around it but without actively trying to save a copy using a tool like NetXFer, there's no local copy of a film or video.

 

woof.

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if you've binned the videos and vinyl, how will you prove you already bought them? If you've sold them or even given them away, you have no rights; those disappeare with your execution of your Right of First Sale.

 

Today's fun fact: Under Danish IP law it is legal to take copies of digital media, sell the originals and keep the copies. This raises a couple of questions:

 

1) Are the copies still legal if I bring them with me to Germany when I move here?

2) What if I'm just on vacation in Germany? Can I have these copies - which are legal in Denmark, but contraband in Germany - playing on my car stereo?

3) What if you as a German resident went to Denmark, copied your media legally and sold the originals on a flea market? Can the copies you created legally be brought back to Germany?

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In some parts of the world it is legal to have sex with 14yearolds even to marry them.

 

If you went to one of these places and legally induluged yourself would you think you would get into trouble when you got home with your 14 yearold spouse?

 

Laws don't always cross borders.

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In some parts of the world it is legal to have sex with 14yearolds even to marry them.

 

If you went to one of these places and legally induluged yourself would you think you would get into trouble when you got home with your 14 yearold spouse?

 

Laws don't always cross borders.

 

Somewhere you even get punished for breaking your country of residence's law in another country, like banging kids in Thailand or circumcising girls in Somalia. Both are AFAIK punishable in Denmark even though the criminal act took place in another jurisdiction. I don't think this is a bad thing.

 

However, the question here relates to IP law, not the criminal code, and what's more it's tangentially relevant to the thread. If your implications that it is indeed illegal to import these items into Germany, I find it deplorable that I, as an EU citizen, apparently cannot bring my lawfully acquired possessions with me.

 

I'd still prefer an opinion from someone with a better argument than "it's illegal to marry kids here, so by extension what you're asking is also illegal" though ;)

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As far as I remember from a news article, in Germany you can claim that you didn't know it was illegal to download movies (or other copyrighted) from the internet, and you get away with that just once. The fines/punishments apply for the latter incidents. Uploading is not tolerated though.

 

How did you download the movie? Is it a direct web download, or is it from a p2p network, like BitTorrent? Because it is not so easy for third parties to track individuals' downloads.

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In some parts of the world it is legal to have sex with 14yearolds

 

 

Yeh, like in Germany, for example.

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Besides the debate about whether or not it is illegal to download movies from the internet, I wonder why no other movie has been mentioned in letters from this company, why they are all exactly the same. I read at rechtsreporte.de that this is a scam and that it is similar to other schemes. Having seen that so many people got the exact same letter (at least from what the German forums have to say) and they also mention the exact same movie, with the same actor Til(l) Schweiger and the same "fine" within a period of time or it will be more later, I would say it probably is bogus. As I read further into some discussions, some people didn't even download such a film and they got a letter. I would just throw it away and see if I get another, but it sounds like you won't.

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Downloading a film via P2P network usually is a copyright violation. The owners of the copyright do have the option to obtain the data of the relevant internet user from his ISP via a court order (§ 101 IX UrhG). The law requires a considerable cpyright violation for doing this ("in gewerblichem Ausmaß") but the courts have hugely different opinions on what constitutes "in gerwerblichem Ausmaß". However, § 97a II UrhG limits the legal fee that can be sought from the violator in simple cases for the first cease and desist order to 100,- EUR. Provided that really only one film was downloaded the ability of the lawyer to charge something like 2,500 Euros seems dubious.

 

This a very important point. The only one who can trace an IP address back to its owner is your ISP. Your ISP will not give out this information without a court order. The fact that they have your address indicates that they obtained a court order for this case, which means you don't want to ignore this. This is not just one of those "you signed up for 24 month contract at myopendownload24.de" bills than can safely be ignored.

 

Whether the 850 Euros are justified and what their chances in court would be, that's for a lawyer to assess, but you should definitely take this seriously.

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The only one who can trace an IP address back to its owner is your ISP.

 

 

Because the law firm is the scammer. They have a torrent client, enter a film and then check to see which IPs downlaod it. With some quick detectoring you can often find out who's using that IP at the general time and with various free, on-line resources, get enough information to come up with a street address.

 

This is the answer I got to that same question earlier. I was surprised you could track an address from an IP, but BD says you can.

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So, downloading copyrighted material from the internet is a crime in Germany and scamming is not? In either case you better go to a lawyer and ask about it. If they are scammers, then you can open a counter case to sue them. If it is not a scam, I think it worths some euros to get some legal advice. Did you already try calling the law firm on the letter and asked whether if they really sent you that letter?

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This is the answer I got to that same question earlier. I was surprised you could track an address from an IP, but BD says you can.

 

 

You can't. The only thing you can find out is which company the IP address belongs to (DTAG, Alice, Arcor etc.). If you want to find out which user had a certain IP address at a certain time, you need to go to the ISP with a court order and have them check their log files.

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You can't. The only thing you can find out is which company the IP address belongs to (DTAG, Alice, Arcor etc.). If you want to find out which user had a certain IP address at a certain time, you need to go to the ISP with a court order and have them check their log files.

 

 

Well, not quite.. There are still tricks to backtrace it. Many people don't really know how to properly secure their modems. It's not just encrypting the WiFi.

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Well, not quite.. There are still tricks to backtrace it. Many people don't really know how to properly secure their modems. It's not just encrypting the WiFi.

 

 

Well, if your computer is wide open and you grant the whole internet access to "My Documents" containing documents with your address, then yeah, someone could find out where you live, but that's not really what we're talking about. Even so, that only works for 1 out of 1000 computers, you wouldn't be able to use it in court, and it doesn't tell you anything about who had this IP yesterday or a month ago.

 

What you can find out is:

-The address of the ISP (by looking up the IP on ripe.net)

-The rough location of a user (if you're lucky and intermediate hops have tell-tale names like berlin-03.isp.com)

 

That's it.

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What you can find out is:

-The address of the ISP (by looking up the IP on ripe.net)

-The rough location of a user (if you're lucky and intermediate hops have tell-tale names like berlin-03.isp.com)

 

That's it.

 

 

What you're talking about is nothing but route tracing of ip packets. I really don't want to expose those tricks here to the public for obvious reasons. But believe me, that is not it. I have done that myself few times as well (without going illegal). And it has nothing to do with the computer's file sharing settings or anything. Be connected to the internet from your iPod at the same time with me, letting me see your ip (as in bittorrent -- not with ipod of course:) ) and have a poorly secured home/office type modem for internet access and I will send flowers to your door the next day. ;)

 

Anyways, this is going off topic. OP: It can still be a well prepared scam and/or real. Don't panic, but just call the number on the notice and ask.

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This is a crock of shit in so many ways...

But go ahead, have you fun.

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How did you receive the letter? Did you sign for it? Or did it arrive as regular mail?

I've been required to show ID and sign for anything ever sent by a law firm.

Things get lost all the time in regular mail...

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I'm curious, how would one connect an ip address (presumably dynamically distributed from an ISP) to a name and street address in a legal manner without a court order to the ISP in question? It seems a couple of people indicate this is in fact possible. I'd have thought not, but it's interesting to note.

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