Accused of torrenting copyrighted material

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You could start by reading this thread. Even in this very same page there are 2 lawyer recommendations.

 

 

 

Rihanna

 

 

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Rihana?? You deserve the fine!! :lol:

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Im planning to leave Germany in the next couple of months anyway but i really dont want my Landlady and family to suffer for this. Should i just get it in my name and get out of Germany before the go for me? How long would i have before they physically come knocking on my door looking to take my possessions away?? Sorry for all the questions!

 

You can't get it "out of her name", as technically she remains in the wrong, and liable for permitting her connection to be used for the upload (not download). The best you can do is take over the case and responsibility, mitigate the the penalty and pay it. Skipping the country before it's settled, or not settling after you leave will revert responsibility and (increased) cost back to her. The letter you have (not from Sony but from their lawyer) tells you when you have to pay by and what else you need to do. Contacting a lawyer specialising in this is really the only sensible way to go.

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Hi Everyone,

 

So another horror story to add the mix, my landlady spoke to me today telling me that she has received a letter in the mail from Sony Hamberg asking to pay €5000 for the download of a Rihanna Album, the showed my Landladys IP and the exact date and time i downloaded the music.

 

I am sub-letting an apartment from her so the internet is in her name, obviously i dont want them to come after her and here family, so should i contact a lawyer and them to say it was me?

 

Will the lawyer be able to bring down the fine, its a crazy amount of money, i have heard of up to and over €1,200 but €5000 is crazy!

 

Something isn't adding up here. The fees for an Abmahnung are not 5000€.

 

They usually ask you to sign an agreement saying that IF you get caught uploading the same album AGAIN, THEN you will have to pay a fine of 5000 Euros. Either you misread the letter or your landlady already signed a cease and desist declaration for the same album at some point.

 

I recommend you re-read this letter.

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Hi Everyone,

 

So another horror story to add the mix, my landlady spoke to me today telling me that she has received a letter in the mail from Sony Hamberg asking to pay €5000 for the download of a Rihanna Album, the showed my Landladys IP and the exact date and time i downloaded the music.

 

I am sub-letting an apartment from her so the internet is in her name, obviously i dont want them to come after her and here family, so should i contact a lawyer and them to say it was me?

 

Will the lawyer be able to bring down the fine, its a crazy amount of money, i have heard of up to and over €1,200 but €5000 is crazy!

 

Im planning to leave Germany in the next couple of months anyway but i really dont want my Landlady and family to suffer for this. Should i just get it in my name and get out of Germany before the go for me? How long would i have before they physically come knocking on my door looking to take my possessions away?? Sorry for all the questions!

 

Freaking out a little about it at the moment! :(

 

Any answers would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

 

 

I received a letter (Abmahnung) from Rechtsanwalt Rasch Hamburg for downloading Lady Gaga's (yuck) album for my wife for almost two years ago. The amount should be ca. €1200, not €5000 as bal00 mentioned. You would have to pay the €5000 if you got caught again. Please reread that letter.

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ukpunk1: I would then assume that the landlady has already had a letter through from her downloading or another tenant as it's a shared Internet connection all they care is about the owner of it, as they're responsible for who's on it and what they're doing, personally I think the landlady's letting herself in for a shitstorm.

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Our letter said we had to pay.

 

Using the lawyer I mentioned, we only had to pay his fee and no fine.

 

 

Oh yeah, they definitely want you to pay something (the fees for the Abmahnung), but not 5000€. Sony uses the law firm Waldorf Frommer, and they normally charge 506€ in fees plus 300-450€ in damages. Still too much imho, but a lot less than 5000.

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Off topic,

 

Have been considering furnishing our rental apartment and providing internet. So many people do this. Any way around being responsible for the renter's downloading?

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fraufruit: most likely not I'm guessing unless the person admits it as most routers would not store enough connection data information to help you prove it was not you that did it.

 

But even so I think the law is about who owns the connection is responsible for what passes up/down it (e.g., you have to put password protection on it etc.) to ensure that if you connection is abused that it's your fault for letting some scumbag downloaders on it.

 

You could try adding some "no illegal stuff/piracy/giving out the password to others" clause as part of the Internet connection agreement but not sure that it would be enforceable in the event of a fine.

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Sony uses the law firm Waldorf Frommer...

 

I'm not sure Sony actually "use" anyone. They've certainly given Waldorf Frommer permission to go chasing in their name, but it's Waldorf Frommer who make the money and Sony who sleep better at night knowing that the unwashed public is being scared off downloading illegal music by their widely publicised tactics.

 

Just for the record, Waldorf Frommer lead the lawyer league last year, sending 86,670 letters claiming damages and costs totalling 79,389,720€ - an average of 916€ per claim. Nice business if you can get it... (source)

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Our letter said we had to pay.Using the lawyer I mentioned, we only had to pay his fee and no fine.

 

 

After one has hired a lawyer to deal with the initial letter, I wonder what the best course of action is, to just ignore any future demands of payment regarding the same infringement (and risk a court case) or to begin a negotiation with the aim of reducing the amount (and closing the case)?

 

Our lawyer has presented us with this choice, and it seems to reflect the two main courses of action that people have taken in this thread. On the one hand, there are so many mass mailings that it would be very difficult if not impossible to take everyone to court. YorkshireLad's post above reflects this. On the other hand, the company has 3 years within which to take you to court, so when Fraufruit says she has not had to pay any fine, just the lawyer's fee, I wonder if that will necessarily hold true until the 3 year period expires.

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Our friend used the same lawyer before us. It has been 3 years for him. No fine. He got the second letter about another download and the lawyer handled it for no extra charge as he said he would.

 

Of course Himself had to sign the letter saying he would never do it again and he hasn't.

 

p.s. I don't know what the lawyer's policy is now. We dealt with him a while ago.

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After one has hired a lawyer to deal with the initial letter, I wonder what the best course of action is, to just ignore any future demands of payment regarding the same infringement (and risk a court case) or to begin a negotiation with the aim of reducing the amount (and closing the case)?

 

If you look at the statistics, Rasch for example sent out over 80,000 letters last year and filed a total 2 lawsuits. Of course it's still a decision you have to make for yourself, but the risk of being sued for non-payment is clearly very, very small.

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Hi bal00

 

I saw on one of your posts in this thread that you provided a link to some templates for sending back a modified unterlassungserklaerung to these rats. I assume that this is to be done without the need of using a lawyer (like I did).

Is it really advisable? I have used a lawyer the two times I have received these abmahnungs, and I also considered at the beginning to send these modified papers myself but at the end did not do it.

Is there anybody that have actually used these templates and was it successful to ward off these bastards? I stopped using torrents since quite sometime ago but you never know when these bastards will try to fcuk you again.

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If you can read German, you can find a few thousand people on the netzwelt forums who have successfully used such a modified UE, me included. The modified UE eliminates the main problem (alleged danger of recurrence). Of course the law firm who originally sent you the Abmahnung would still like to collect their fees, but as the numbers show, 999 times out of 1000, nothing will happen if you just send them a mod UE and sit back. And in the extremely unlikely event that it goes to court and you lose, it's not going to be the end of the world financially.

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There is a lot of this about at the moment and the local German Verbraucherschutz organisations are getting overloaded with it, especially where it concerns young kids and downloading songs - one of the Verbraucherschutz places recently said that although people shouldn't break the law and should pay a fine it shouldn't be a fine that cripples the family.

 

Anyway for all those concerned about their ISP and IP and in order to help prevent further heartbreak here is a table in German about how long your ISP saves the IP address (See the coloured table which is very easy to understand - see IP-Adressen / IP- Adressen bei Internetzugang for each ISP). Verbindungsdaten is about the telephone so ignore it here.

 

http://wiki.vorratsdatenspeicherung.de/Speicherdauer

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So we decided to go along with the first choice: take no action. We instructed our lawyer accordingly and confirmed we wanted to stop the correspondence with the counter-party. This was a few days before the date by which the counter party had requested payment. Then something ghastly happened: What did our lawyer do? Well, they did the exact opposite of what we had instructed and sent the counter-party another letter saying we were still undecided and would like a few more days to decide.

 

This has drawn unwanted attention to our case among all the mass mailings and we now have a concern that it might actually things harder. We'd like to dismiss this lawyer but we fear to do so would raise even more unwanted attention to our case, because presumably the lawyer would have to write to the counter-party yet again, this time to explain they were no longer handling the case.

 

It's rather troubling, but we're not sure how warranted these fears are. The counter-parties DO take some people to court, but it's not clear what conditions lead to this happening, whether it is standing out from the crowd in some way, or something else.

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all: do you think if you DL a movie or song at the local Mc donald, they come to them asking for a fine?

NO! the scum lawyers would get sued to their bones.

 

option 1: Send a letter, in your native language, refute the accusation, and point to their breach of privacy and breach of about a zillion other laws (how do you think they got your IP, and from that your address: false accusation, entrapment, unlawful interception...)

Option 2: to as above and send ME the money. I want only half of the fine.

 

the only thing not to do, is not responding. Except that, you are in the clear.

 

I am still waiting for this one indignant citizen that will take them to court on that...

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option 1: Send a letter, in your native language, refute the accusation, and point to their breach of privacy and breach of about a zillion other laws (how do you think they got your IP, and from that your address: false accusation, entrapment, unlawful interception...)

None of that is going to help.

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