Accused of torrenting copyrighted material

3,080 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, someonesdaughter said:

 

It is the vehicle owner who gets the ticket. Didn't you know?

 

More stuff for the front pages ...

 

 

 

Is that how it works in Germany? It just gets better and better lol. In other places I've lived, it's the driver who gets punished. And what if the car is stolen? Because if someone is using your wifi without your knowledge, you still get held responsible. I know, as this was my situation.

 

I haven't read your other posts, as you were talking about the newspaper stuff (I'm not)... Are you actually defending the system as it is?

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1 hour ago, savoysuit said:

 

Is that how it works in Germany? It just gets better and better lol.

 

Then you better stay away from Germany, lol...

 

1 hour ago, savoysuit said:

 

In other places I've lived, it's the driver who gets punished.

 

This is only possible if the car is stopped immediately to determine who the driver is. The car is registered to the owner, not to a driver. Thank you, I will refrain from having police closures for speeding offences throughout the country. And if the car is stolen, it can be proven, quite simply. 

 

1 hour ago, savoysuit said:

I haven't read your other posts, as you were talking about the newspaper stuff (I'm not)... Are you actually defending the system as it is?

 

I don't care about the system - but I think the hysteria here is grotesque. And the naive idea of a nanny state, which should personally explain to everyone and his uncle what it is allowed to do and what it is not allowed to do. 

 

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26 minutes ago, someonesdaughter said:

 

Then you better stay away from Germany, lol...

 

 

 

Ah yes, the classic... You don't like it, go back to where you came from!

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8 hours ago, someonesdaughter said:

 

Then you better stay away from Germany, lol...

 

 

This is only possible if the car is stopped immediately to determine who the driver is. The car is registered to the owner, not to a driver. Thank you, I will refrain from having police closures for speeding offences throughout the country. And if the car is stolen, it can be proven, quite simply. 

 

Actually, the fine will get delivered to the owner of the car

 

If the owner can show he/she was not driving at the time, because for example they were on holiday in Australia, then the fine will be rejected.

 

Or if the owner can get somebody else to admit that that, that other person was driving the car at the time then the owner does not get the fine - the person who was driving at the time gets the fine.

 

 

 

8 hours ago, someonesdaughter said:

 

I don't care about the system - but I think the hysteria here is grotesque. And the naive idea of a nanny state, which should personally explain to everyone and his uncle what it is allowed to do and what it is not allowed to do. 

 

 

As Krieg, says is a civil case not a criminal, which means the copy write holder sues you for what they think they have lost in revenue, if you contest, then a judge will decide and that's going to cost a lot more. Lets face it you did it ( or your child ), and therefore you have to pay for it.

 

While I have much sympathy for the people caught up in this, the problem is that copy write offenders have broken the rules and have face the civil regulations that come from that.

 

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16 hours ago, someonesdaughter said:

"These "lawyers" are the scum of the earth"

can be quite expensive in Germany, don't you think? Not that poor Slammer's doing something stupid because he is not familiar with German law. Oh wait, in Switzerland it's a punishable offence too ...

 

Well first of all I am not in CH but in the land of the Germans, then, I am fully aware of German law, and if I want to state that a certain flavor of lawyers (highlighted by the use of the word: "these") are the scum of the earth and not A certain named lawyer I can do so under the laws of freie Meinungsäußerung because it is regarded as a judgement and not an insult:

"  Eine derartige Äußerung ist vielmehr als ein Werturteil anzusehen [BVerfG, 17.09.2012, 1 BvR 2979/10]. "

 

Over to you...!

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17 hours ago, savoysuit said:

 

...and my point is that the system is the problem. A system that allows this is an immoral one.

 

Then the "solution" would be to make copyright infringement a crime.  Do you really want that?  That would be the only way to create a table with established fines.   And then someone will have to police it.   So either the state start peeking into your stuff to see if you broke the law, or they outsource the task to external companies.   Do you really want that?

 

16 hours ago, LeCheese said:

 

In Germany? since when? ;)

 

 

Most of the "low level" fines are not really fines, but warnings.

 

For example, related to driving speed:

 

https://www.bussgeldkatalog.org/geschwindigkeitsueberschreitung/

 

" Bei einer Geschwindigkeitsüberschreitung, die laut Bußgeldkatalog mit maximal 55 Eurogeahndet wird, bekommt der Fahrzeughalter häufig zunächst einen Verwarnungsbogenzugeschickt. "

 

Roughly: Every speed offense up to 55 EUR is just a warning.

 

Parking fines are mostly all warnings.   But crossing in red light is never a warning, except for pedestrians.

 

2 hours ago, yesterday said:

If the owner can show he/she was not driving at the time, because for example they were on holiday in Australia, then the fine will be rejected.

 

 

Small addition: However this will work only once.    If you refuse to provide the data from the offender and you can prove it was not you they will discard the fine, but then you will be asked to keep a driving log, so next time you will have to provide a name.

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1 hour ago, Krieg said:

 

Then the "solution" would be to make copyright infringement a crime.

It is already punishable through criminal law. Fine or up to 3 years prison. But that doesn't stop civil cases, you could get both.

https://dejure.org/gesetze/UrhG/106.html

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About speeding: yes, Germany doesn't punish the owner of the car for speeding if he wasn't the driver. He might be forced to start writing a log, though, like Krieg said.

Note that this is different in some other European countries, e.g. Austria, Holland and France!

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16 hours ago, savoysuit said:

 

Ah yes, the classic... You don't like it, go back to where you came from!

 

Wrong, it's the other classic: 'When in Rome do as the Romans do'. I'm sure you've heard it before. Whoever expects the Romans to change for him is mistaken and better served if he doesn't go to Rome at all. And not going anywhere is different than going away from somewhere. 

 

8 hours ago, slammer said:

Well first of all I am not in CH but in the land of the Germans,

 

Then you have first of all a wrong information in your profile. 

 

8 hours ago, slammer said:

 

then, I am fully aware of German law, and if I want to state that a certain flavor of lawyers (highlighted by the use of the word: "these") are the scum of the earth and not A certain named lawyer I can do so under the laws of freie Meinungsäußerung because it is regarded as a judgement and not an insult:

"  Eine derartige Äußerung ist vielmehr als ein Werturteil anzusehen [BVerfG, 17.09.2012, 1 BvR 2979/10]. "

 

Over to you...!

 

 

You turn everything around so it suits you, huh? But that doesn't work. The judgment you quoted was about the term 'rechtsradikal' and the defendant had to go as far as the Federal Constitutional Court - in the lower courts he was sentenced. If you derive a right for yourself from this individual case decision, sooner or later you will fall hard on your nose. 

 

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11 minutes ago, someonesdaughter said:

 

Wrong, it's the other classic: 'When in Rome do as the Romans do'. I'm sure you've heard it before. Whoever expects the Romans to change for him is mistaken and better served if he doesn't go to Rome at all. And not going anywhere is different than going away from somewhere. 

 

 

 

This is some sort of light version of cultural relativism - as I mentioned earlier: Cut off his hand for stealing! Don't like it and think it's immoral? "when in Rome buddy!".

 

 

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Western privilege allows people to feel justified in equating the loss of some money with the loss of a limb. That's some Olympic quality stretching.

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11 minutes ago, AlexTr said:

Western privilege allows people to feel justified in equating the loss of some money with the loss of a limb. That's some Olympic quality stretching.

 

That's not really what I was doing, btw. I already said it's not really the perfect comparison, but it's mostly the principle.

It was about exaggerated penalties, and later.. being ok with certain outcomes because of the "when in Rome" justification.

 

Also, please put away your western privilege garbage - you don't know my background, but if you did you may not have used that term.

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Really? It looks a lot like that's what you did. Also, when I arrived in DE as a 40 year old who had run many businesses, I knew that I needed to be informed. So, I sat down and read all of the Gesetzbucher online (in English) that I could.

 

You see, that was my job as the person asking Germany to let me live here.

 

Ignorantia legis  non excusat.

 

Grown folks know that.

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2 minutes ago, savoysuit said:

 you don't know my background, but if you did you may not have used that term.

 

You must’ve had it really rough. I hear that the French part of Canada is like South Los Angeles. :ph34r:

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1 hour ago, savoysuit said:

 

This is some sort of light version of cultural relativism - as I mentioned earlier: Cut off his hand for stealing!

 

 

Even if I repeat myself: Your problem is that you are a fanatic. That's why no comparison is too monstrous, no demand too absurd. 

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46 minutes ago, AlexTr said:

Western privilege allows people to feel justified in equating the loss of some money with the loss of a limb. That's some Olympic quality stretching.

Some of the most privileged people I have ever come across were not Westerners. 

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1 hour ago, A.N.Other said:

 

You must’ve had it really rough. I hear that the French part of Canada is like South Los Angeles. :ph34r:

 

You think I'm french canadian?

 

1 hour ago, someonesdaughter said:

 

Even if I repeat myself: Your problem is that you are a fanatic. That's why no comparison is too monstrous, no demand too absurd. 

Please stop posting, your insight is no better than trolling at this point.

 

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56 minutes ago, savoysuit said:

 

Please stop posting, your insight is no better than trolling at this point.

 

 

Are you lacking arguments? Then you stop posting. 

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2 hours ago, A.N.Other said:

I hear that the French part of Canada is like South Los Angeles. :ph34r:

People speak redneck French in South LA?

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