Accused of torrenting copyrighted material

3,089 posts in this topic

The media companies dont see it as petty, they believe that if media is availble freely it will undermine their ability to sell cinema tickets and dvd/streaming/whatever.  I do know one guy who used to work in the music business and he believes that his company was destroyed by mp3 downloads -- my view is that it was just a change in customer habits, but thats hard to prove.  Maybe he is correct.

 

In most of the world the focus has been on tracker sites like thepiratebay, and germany is somewhat unusual in that casual end users have been targetted.  A big part of that however seems to be that other countries do not make it easy, for example allowing open WiFi without liability.

 

There have been quite a few people sued in other countries, Jamie Thomas is just one example, famous mostly because she ended up with a quarter of a million of debt (although as you say apparently never paid) but there have been no end of others who have often been coerced into humiliating adverts against piracy where they talk about their "mistake".

 

I dont want to do extensive searching right now, but some very quick googling suggests for example that 200000 people were sued by Big Media (Sony, BMG et al) in the US in 2011 https://torrentfreak.com/200000-bittorrent-users-sued-in-the-united-states-110808/ this link suggests only about 10k people are sued per year in the usa but does exclude lots of up/downloading (for example they exclude all porn, and the 2 larges single movie cases)  https://www.reddit.com/r/torrents/comments/3zcdy1/what_are_your_chances_us_piracy_lawsuit_analysis/

 

FWIW When I looked at the numbers the evidence strongly showed that "illegal downloading" doesnt actualy harm the bottom line, and that pirates tend to make better customers, ie they are using it to try before they buy.  So I am not anti bittorrent at all, in fact I suspect the industry should embrace it.  Im just trying to show the facts here.

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56 minutes ago, zwiebelfisch said:

So I am not anti bittorrent at all, in fact I suspect the industry should embrace it.  Im just trying to show the facts here.

Actually industry could spare money in servers/infrastuctures if they shared the uploading/streaming resources among users. Then maybe they could get better revenue at lower expenses = bigger profit. 

 

But yes, at the moment I guess bittorrent will continue to be associated with pirates/illegal content, which is a shame since the technology is actually quite ok

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Buried deep in this thread is a link to an English article written by a lawyer on exactly how to deal with this. It's about 30 pages long and very detailed.

 

I reposted it once but that was a few years ago. If someone could find it it would be nice if it was linked to a wiki

 

Any idea if you can search the thread for a specific user post?

 

 

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I've heard that it isn't possible to put things on Wiki any more but I don't know if that is true for everyone.

 

Do you remember enough about the article to search for it? I don't.

 

BTW, if DVD's and such didn't cost an arm and a leg, many more people could buy them.

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1 hour ago, zwiebelfisch said:

The media companies dont see it as petty, they believe that if media is availble freely it will undermine their ability to sell cinema tickets and dvd/streaming/whatever.  I do know one guy who used to work in the music business and he believes that his company was destroyed by mp3 downloads -- my view is that it was just a change in customer habits, but thats hard to prove.  Maybe he is correct.

 

While I do believe that piracy somehow "harm" sales some media produces continue believing the fallacy that every download is a lost sale.   It does not work like that, a pirate download things because it can be done and it cost nothing, it does not mean the pirate would buy the music album or watch the movie if piracy did not exists.  Reality is the pirate would not listen to the album or watch the music and the sale wouldn't happen anyway.

 

Watching a movie in the cinema is still an experience so people who would pay for the cinema tickets would still pay for the cinema tickets, with or without piracy.   Some people would prefer to buy the DVD/Bluray because they have their reasons, maybe cinema tickets are to expensive to take the whole family every week to watch a movie.   Some people would just wait for the legal streamed version (Netflix and so on).  Some people would wait for the movie to come to public TV in 20 years.   

 

At the end piracy is not harming sales in the way the executives insist.  They probably know what I am saying but they prefer the scaremonger speech because it sounds like pirates are destroying the thing for everyone.

 

Music is a bit different but the same.   Main problem in the music industry is that music became disposable.   People get an album and listen it 2 or 3 times and then put it in their collection and it won't be spin again until it comes in a random session of until there is a special reason to listen to it.   So people are not willing to pay 20 bucks anymore for an album.    At the same time, recording albums is now pretty easy, everyone can have a decent home studio for a few hundred dollars.   Music instruments are pretty cheap and decent nowadays and Youtube is full of instructional videos so anyone with enough time an motivation can learn to play instruments easily.   That's why there are way too many bands, the indie scene is overcrowded and people have access to cheap or free music very easily.  But the executives insist in elongating a system that worked well for them 50 years ago but it does not work anymore.   Money nowadays is on concerts and in the mean time they spoil it for us because concerts from well known acts became very expensive.   100 EUR to see Black Sabbath, 300 EUR to see Madonna.   WTF is that?   I saw Madonna during the Bad Girl tour and Michael Jackson during the Dangerous Tour, I paid $20 for each in the 90s.

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Correct me if I'm mistaken, but is this thread focused on BitTorrent as a culprit or unauthorized sharing or watching music videos uploaded to youtube/vimeo?  Are their any analogies out there?   Books?  Artwork? 

To me, it sounds like the music industry has been taken over by digital technology and its reaction (based on this thread) is to sue.  Let the lawyers be the police just as they are in the retail/telecommunication industries always defending the letters of the laws....until the costs outweigh the recompense. 

I used the term "petty" to describe a single user who downloads/torrents a single tune and gets sued.  Yes, I know it all adds up when "everyone" does it, but what are you going to do, sue millions of people?  Scare millions of people?  Like liquor prohibition?  Marijuana laws?  Blurring buildings in GoogleMaps?

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16 minutes ago, catjones said:

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but is this thread focused on BitTorrent as a culprit or unauthorized sharing or watching music videos uploaded to youtube/vimeo?

 

This thread is about bittorrent, but exactly the same applies to people uploading video or music to youtube.  Bittorent is special in that downloading also implies uploading (yes technically you can do one without the other, yawn) whereas youtube is much clearer in the upload Vs download separation.

 

18 minutes ago, catjones said:

Yes, I know it all adds up when "everyone" does it, but what are you going to do, sue millions of people?  Scare millions of people? 

 

That seems to be the idea, yes.  But Im not sure who you are arguing with, I doubt anyone here thinks it is a good one.  The discussion in this thread is mostly around how to avoid massive fines, not defending an industry which has decided to sue its customers en mass.

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On 19 May 2016 at 15:22:18, fraufruit said:

After a little research, people are being arrested and/or fined in the U.S. They usually get a warning letter first. The chances of getting caught are much less over there than in Germany.

 

From what I can tell, none of them were using a proxy so my question stands,

 

How many get caught in Germany who are using a proxy vs. not using one?

 

 

I hardly every do any torrenting any more thanks to Netflix and iPlayer but I got a warning this month from my VPN provider (VyprVPN) which I reproduce below:

 

This is a Notice of Copyright Infringement.

The Copyright Agent for a copyright holder has notified Goldenfrog that you, or someone using your account, have allegedly infringed their copyright.  Please stop immediately.

Transferring copyrighted material using Goldenfrog's service without permission of the copyright holder subjects your account to immediate cancellation or suspension of service.

When signing up for the Goldenfrog service you agreed to our Terms of Service.  Please review the Goldenfrog Terms of service at the following URL:

https://www.goldenfrog.com/terms-of-service

Your access to the service has been placed under a temporary suspension.  To unsuspend your account, visit the following URL to acknowledge the Goldenfrog Terms of Service and affirm that you will not illegally transfer any further copyrighted material:

https://www.goldenfrog.com/account/dmca_affirmation

Your service will remain under temporary suspension until affirm that you will not illegally transfer any further copyrighted material. Should you fail to make this affirmation within three days from the date of this e-mail, Goldenfrog reserves the right to cancel your account without further notice.

 

They also included the letter complaining about the infringement, which I also reproduce below:

 

YHC International BV

Dear Sir or Madam:


We are contacting you on behalf of Paramount Pictures Corporation (Paramount).  Under penalty of perjury, I assert that IP-Echelon Pty. Ltd., (IP-Echelon) is authorized to act on behalf of the owner of the exclusive copyrights that are alleged to be infringed herein.

IP-Echelon has become aware that the below IP addresses have been using your service for distributing video files, which contain infringing video content that is exclusively owned by Paramount.

IP-Echelon has a good faith belief that the Paramount video content that is described in the below report has not been authorized for sharing or distribution by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law.  I also assert that the information contained in this notice is accurate to the best of our knowledge.

We are requesting your immediate assistance in removing and disabling access to the infringing material from your network.  We also ask that you ensure the user and/or IP address owner refrains from future use and sharing of Paramount materials and property.

In complying with this notice, YHC International BV should not destroy any evidence, which may be relevant in a lawsuit, relating to the infringement alleged, including all associated electronic documents and data relating to the presence of infringing items on your network, which shall be preserved while disabling public access, irrespective of any document retention or corporate policy to the contrary.

Please note that this letter is not intended as a full statement of the facts; and does not constitute a waiver of any rights to recover damages, incurred by virtue of any unauthorized or infringing activities, occurring on your network.  All such rights, as well as claims for other relief, are expressly reserved.

Should you need to contact me, I may be reached at the following address:

Adrian Leatherland
On behalf of IP-Echelon as an agent for Paramount
Address: 6715 Hollywood Blvd, Los Angeles, 90028, United States
Email: p2p@copyright.ip-echelon.com

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Seedbox solution like www.torrentcloud.eu will be safe right? The torrent is happening over the cloud, there is no uploading from end-user side.

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It's probably just as illegal. The point of VPN, seedboxes etc. is not to make torrenting copyrighted material without owners permission legal, it is to make you untrackable for the German law firms. If they track an IP address that's not from a German ISP they simply give up.

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3 hours ago, Smaug said:

 

I hardly every do any torrenting any more thanks to Netflix and iPlayer but I got a warning this month from my VPN provider (VyprVPN) which I reproduce below:

 

This is a Notice of Copyright Infringement.

The Copyright Agent for a copyright holder has notified Goldenfrog that you, or someone using your account, have allegedly infringed their copyright.  Please stop immediately.

Transferring copyrighted material using Goldenfrog's service without permission of the copyright holder subjects your account to immediate cancellation or suspension of service.

When signing up for the Goldenfrog service you agreed to our Terms of Service.  Please review the Goldenfrog Terms of service at the following URL:

https://www.goldenfrog.com/terms-of-service

Your access to the service has been placed under a temporary suspension.  To unsuspend your account, visit the following URL to acknowledge the Goldenfrog Terms of Service and affirm that you will not illegally transfer any further copyrighted material:

https://www.goldenfrog.com/account/dmca_affirmation

Your service will remain under temporary suspension until affirm that you will not illegally transfer any further copyrighted material. Should you fail to make this affirmation within three days from the date of this e-mail, Goldenfrog reserves the right to cancel your account without further notice.

 

They also included the letter complaining about the infringement, which I also reproduce below:

 

YHC International BV

Dear Sir or Madam:


We are contacting you on behalf of Paramount Pictures Corporation (Paramount).  Under penalty of perjury, I assert that IP-Echelon Pty. Ltd., (IP-Echelon) is authorized to act on behalf of the owner of the exclusive copyrights that are alleged to be infringed herein.

IP-Echelon has become aware that the below IP addresses have been using your service for distributing video files, which contain infringing video content that is exclusively owned by Paramount.

IP-Echelon has a good faith belief that the Paramount video content that is described in the below report has not been authorized for sharing or distribution by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law.  I also assert that the information contained in this notice is accurate to the best of our knowledge.

We are requesting your immediate assistance in removing and disabling access to the infringing material from your network.  We also ask that you ensure the user and/or IP address owner refrains from future use and sharing of Paramount materials and property.

In complying with this notice, YHC International BV should not destroy any evidence, which may be relevant in a lawsuit, relating to the infringement alleged, including all associated electronic documents and data relating to the presence of infringing items on your network, which shall be preserved while disabling public access, irrespective of any document retention or corporate policy to the contrary.

Please note that this letter is not intended as a full statement of the facts; and does not constitute a waiver of any rights to recover damages, incurred by virtue of any unauthorized or infringing activities, occurring on your network.  All such rights, as well as claims for other relief, are expressly reserved.

Should you need to contact me, I may be reached at the following address:

Adrian Leatherland
On behalf of IP-Echelon as an agent for Paramount
Address: 6715 Hollywood Blvd, Los Angeles, 90028, United States
Email: p2p@copyright.ip-echelon.com

 

Interesting. So using a VPN doesn't necessarily make one immune to legal pursuit? Or am I misunderstanding something here? 

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28 minutes ago, CustomX said:

Interesting. So using a VPN doesn't necessarily make one immune to legal pursuit? Or am I misunderstanding something here? 

No, you aren't. Some VPN providers log data and cooperate with authorities. Other's don't. People who care about privacy choose those who do not log any data to begin with. But the above is a DMCA notice usual for the US. Usually nothing comes of it, the lawyers may not even get Smaugs name/address. Very different from Germany where they directly ask for money.

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On 14 January 2016 at 16:43:36, snowingagain said:

if it is of any comfort we know loads of Germans who have been chased by W and F.  All caused by rash action by teenagers.

 

Kids eh! 

 

This website says WF send out over 100,000 abmahnungs a year.  Yes it is big business:  plus of course the business for other lawyers to help you.

 

http://www.kanzlei-hollweck.de/ratgeber/abmahnung-wegen-filesharing/

 

This is an extremely useful link.     The Attorney behind it seems responsive and helpful so far.  

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On Sat May 21 2016 13:12:41 GMT+0200, muschi said:

Seedbox solution like www.torrentcloud.eu will be safe right? The torrent is happening over the cloud, there is no uploading from end-user side.

Yeah but you have to pay for the seedbox, and a VPN and many boxes only want you to have private torrents not public and a ratiomust be maintained on trackers. So it it all adds up to be expensive, and you have to wonder if its worth it. Netflix, streaming and a few euros for songs from Amazon suits me ok.

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i have a seedbox from torentcloud.eu , paying about 25 euros a year but you can start at 12 euros a year. great value and simple to use. https://yourseedbox.com/page/shared_seedbox

If you use a seedbox , you don't need a vpn as the seebox will do the torrenting for you and you download the torrented file using https or ftp, a connection just between you and the seedbox. They don't distinguish between private and public torrents, nothing on  ratios and trackets . 
Having said all that , i spend 40 euros a year on mubi.com , they have a new film every day , a rolling list of 30 movies. Helps me learn german and many of the films are really good and would never have heard of or otherwise had a chance of seeing. 

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On 21/05/2016, 15:14:39, CustomX said:

 

Interesting. So using a VPN doesn't necessarily make one immune to legal pursuit? Or am I misunderstanding something here? 

 

It depends of the VPN itself. Some are really shity ones (nevertheless, you should not ever feel 100% "immune")

Take this unbiased analysis of VPN services to help you choose a better VPN service https://thatoneprivacysite.net/

 

 

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A VPN does not in and of itself make one immune, all it does is introduce hurdles that are assumed to be big enough to prevent legal action.  People tend to focus on the number of billion years it might take to decrypt the data and miss the quite simple ways in which a vpn provider might stitch them up.  Most obvious would be that they get raided by the cops for whatever reason and agree to cooperate with the authorities. 

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