Accused of torrenting copyrighted material

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"Grey market streaming sites" meaning "pirates you pay to give you computer viruses", right?

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Get a News reader and use NNTP UseNet!  Use SSL over NNTP and all is good.  Of course you have to be a tech Geek to understand all this... :ph34r:

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On 03/03/2016, 14:37:05, sneaker said:

The ISPs will have to save the IP<>name/address allocation for 10 weeks. You used the word "only" but prior to the new law most German ISPs only saved those for a few days, some (Vodafone) not at all. The lawyers still need a judge to access this data, so there's no change in this regard. The ISPs still have time to implement the new rules until mid-2017.

 

Bottom-line: the situation of peer2peer users is getting worse, the lawyers' situation improves.

Forgot to check in on this one.

So basically what you're saying is that any IP-name correspondence which is older than 10 weeks as of today (approximately since January 1st or 8th or thereabouts) would have been illegally stored, hence not usable to identify someone uploading stuff? Because this would mean that whoever used p2p until end of last year (the new law came into force on 17.12) and had no such copyright infringement procedure started right then (i.e. within those few days) would be free of worries - or at least that's my understanding...

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14 hours ago, airwave said:

Forgot to check in on this one.

So basically what you're saying is that any IP-name correspondence which is older than 10 weeks as of today (approximately since January 1st or 8th or thereabouts) would have been illegally stored, hence not usable to identify someone uploading stuff? Because this would mean that whoever used p2p until end of last year (the new law came into force on 17.12) and had no such copyright infringement procedure started right then (i.e. within those few days) would be free of worries - or at least that's my understanding...

That sounds logical, but also very US crime series type stuff.

 

That 10 weeks may be a minimum and even if it isn't, you would need to check with a legal expert to see if them storing it longer, invalidates it as evidence.

 

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It's a maximum, for what I can understand.

10 weeks for IP addresses, 4 weeks for location information (for phones).

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The IP address data will have to be stored for 10 weeks, period. Not longer (because privacy), not shorter (because police wants the data). The lawyers need to act within said time frame or they cannot catch the pirate. But: you have no way of knowing what is happening in the background. The lawyers can get your name and address today and then sit on the data for up to 4 years, e.g. working on other cases, before sending you the first letter. Neither the court nor your ISP will inform you that your customer data has been given out. (In the past some courts have asked ISPs to "quick freeze" the data behind a certain IP address until they have come to a decision. I don't know how common that is today.)

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My two cents, for those who want to have an easily-accessible wi-fi network at home without running the risk of receiving nasty letters from lawyers because of the activities of their guests:

  • get a VPN service that:
    • allows you to set up accounts anonymously,
    • pay anonymously (e.g., though Bitcoin)
    • does not keep logs, and
    • allows you to connect from 2+ devices at the same.
  • Get a 2nd router that can handle VPN (or one that can be flashed with dd-wrt or open-wrt).
  • Connect the 2nd router to your ISP's box, and configure it to always connect to your VPN service
  • Configure the 2nd router to block all peer-to-peer protocols.
  • Have the 2nd router create the wi-fi network you will be sharing e.g., with guests, etc..

Then your guests will be able to connect to the internet, but won't be able to download torrent files (which is the usual source of trouble). Even if they manage to do something shady,  the connection will be going through the VPN service, so the outside world will see some foreign IP address, not your German ISP's address.

 

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22 minutes ago, Ctrl-Alt-Delete said:
  • Configure the 2nd router to block all peer-to-peer protocols.

Good luck with that.

You can't.

 

P2P protocols are specifically designed to be able to make their traffic look like normal https traffic, it is almost impossible to block. (Ask any major academic computing centre.)

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1 hour ago, gaijin said:

Good luck with that.

You can't.

 

P2P protocols are specifically designed to be able to make their traffic look like normal https traffic, it is almost impossible to block. (Ask any major academic computing centre.)

 

You're right about that. But if the router offers that option and it's one click away, it makes sense to turn it on, to block less determined users and less sophisticated P2P clients.

 

The real protection comes from the fact that all the wi-fi traffic gets channeled through the VPN, so whoever's monitoring your (guests') activities will see some foreign IP address, as opposed to your real IP address  that can easily be traced back to you.

 

Reality check: on Toytown, there's a disproportionate number of people using VPNs (most of us are expats). Yet none of the people in this thread (which already runs to 117 pages) have reported being sued for alleged activities which were  linked to a VPN IP address.

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Your Computer, Your VPN router and your ISP router all have unique MAC adresses...   If the VPN router "Farts and fucks up" just once, then you have exposed your other info...

 

Dont forget.. if man can make it... Man can also Break it!  ( except Tonka toys!!)

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5 minutes ago, SpiderPig said:

Your Computer, Your VPN router and your ISP router all have unique MAC adresses...   If the VPN router "Farts and fucks up" just once, then you have exposed your other info...

 

Dont forget.. if man can make it... Man can also Break it!  ( except Tonka toys!!)

The old Tonka toys that is... The ones my Nephew had were not as robust.

 

In the old days when I used torrent programs, I remember blocking the port it used to share.

I guess it has all moved on since then though (I cannot even find the bit on my new router that lets me block ports, let alone in my firewall...).

 

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24 minutes ago, SpiderPig said:

Your Computer, Your VPN router and your ISP router all have unique MAC adresses...   If the VPN router "Farts and fucks up" just once, then you have exposed your other info...

 

What's the likelihood that your guests/children are doing something shady on the internet at the exact same moment your farty router decides to "fart and fuck up"? (at all other times, it can fart up all it wants without adverse consequences).

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MACs are not visible for servers or torrent peers. And even if they were: how would the lawyers know who's behind a given MAC address? There's no database to look that info up. MACs are irrelevant for this topic.

 

That said, I agree that people must be careful about configuring the VPN in a way that does not allow any traffic outside the VPN at all (e.g. if the VPN connection is interrupted). 

 

Btw, there is Freifunk. They are dedicated to spreading free public WiFi spots throughout Germany. They provide firmwares that don't require complicated installation, so you cannot fuck up and suddenly have traffic outside the VPN. Compatible routers start as cheap as 15 Euro. Their router is hooked to your main router and automatically routes everything through their VPN servers at zero monthly costs. They don't log, they don't block. They are very dedicated in fighting any legal attempts threatening their users' privacy.

The only catch: the WiFi is not encrypted so it can be tapped and all your neighbors have access. (You can attach LAN cables, though)

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7 minutes ago, sneaker said:

MACs are not visible for servers or torrent peers. And even if they were: how would the lawyers know who's behind a given MAC address? There's no database to look that info up. MACs are irrelevant for this topic.

 

Correct. This is what the other side sees about you.  It's already plenty of information, but there's nothing about MACs. The most important piece of information is your IP address and ISP. That's what's used to trace you.  If you go through a VPN, those will look different. They'll even be in a different country (of your choice).

 

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So... how does the info ( movie) that you have requested, know just where to end up?

 

Pot-luckery?

 

I dont think so!

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9 hours ago, SpiderPig said:

So... how does the info ( movie) that you have requested, know just where to end up?

 

If you're connected to the VPN, then all the internet traffic goes through the VPN. When you visit a website, for example, the VPN requests it, obtains it, and forwards it to you. All that happens transparently, both to you and to the server hosting the website.

 

What's important here is that as far as the website server is concerned,  it's the VPN that's making requests and exchanging info with them, not you.

 

PS: there's no "magic" involved, just simple routing. Every standard home router does something similar: it's the only device at home that is actually connected to the internet. Other devices connect through it, in the sense that they send their requests to the router, which routes them to their final destination, receives the requested data, and routes them back to whichever home device had originally requested them. The rest of the world sees the router, not the computers, laptops, smartphones behind it. Think of the VPN as a second home router, that's sitting in another country.

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What a great explanation by Ctrl-Alt-Delete.  Well done.  The analogy with a home router really makes it easy to understand.  I look forward to using the analogy myself.

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Hi, I am not in Munich on and off almost eight months in a year. In 2013 I had a letter from Waldorf Frommer accusing me of whatever it was I did with a movie called Parker as you can see in the attached pic. A whole 1 minute and 26 seconds of it. While I am mostly away, I was in Munich on that day but I know absolutely nothing about this movie let alone watching at 5 in the morning. 

The letter came with a bill for 1024 euros for this "illegal" act I was supposed to have committed for little over a minute. It was already past all deadlines by the time I came back so I simply ignored it as I was going away. Nothing happened for almost three years except another reminder few months ago when I was once again away. 

This week I received Mahnbescheid asking me to pay 1360 euros for this case.

I want to deny the charge and contest this case and fight it in the court out of principle cuz I didn't do it. What are my chances considering they are truly fleecing me for 1360 euros over an alleged one minute download/watching of a movie? 

I see that most of you have received these letters. Has anybody actually been taken to court? Any chance they would stop pursuing after receiving the wiederspruch?

Thanks for your feedback.

12891640_10209283720598202_2170411390610414607_o.jpg

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