Accused of torrenting copyrighted material

2,700 posts in this topic

4 hours ago, fraufruit said:

 

You rent a car - you are responsible.

You pay for internet - you are responsible.

 

And still you don't get it. 

 

I drive a car -  I am responsible for what I do with it. 

 

My visitors downloads a movie 9 months ago using my WiFi - I get a letter from the Russian maffia cousins that I should pay some ridiculous made up fees.

 

How can someone be held responsible for something they are not in control of? I have to be a bitch telling my friends they can't use my Internet, that even if I trust them a bit torrent may load automatically or when they open their browser the last website is loaded which happened to be a stream site which also these days people are getting letters for. 

 

The justice system is not up to date, and regular people are beeing exploited, and reading some of the posts on this forum are being very anxious to the point that their health is at stake (some poor pregnant lady's story really bothered me) 

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a good solution to the having a "guest" be that guest who might stay for a weekend or 25 years is

http://freifunk-muenchen.de

 

basically you connect up their rouher to yours and offer an password free guest wifi connection and keep your one private. The password free one is routed through a vpn so if someboday does something naughty on the guest wifi, it will only be traced back to the vpn servers, not to your house. 

router costs 20 euro and thats it , no reoccuring costs except about 4 euro yearly electricity. I am using it and i like the idea of offering free internet to my sourrounding area, i reckon upto 2 or so hundred people. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, fraufruit said:

We just have different opinions. That's all. Calm down.

 

BTW, I did not red your other post.

 

That's cool, I'm calm, hard to properly communicate on a forum :). And different opinions are good (most of the time). 

 

The red thingy I don't pay attention to as it has no valuable purpose. Some people here have written detailed explanation of their experiences providing close to personal information, which has been extremely helpful to a lot of people. Like some of padjo's posts which should be hosted on the front page in my own humble opinion. Then some guys hit the down vote button for some reason I can't understand (possible lawyers from the dark side?).

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I've often wondered how much of the fine you pay actually makes it way back to the people who's copyright you're breaking.

I've wondered if these lawyers (always seems to be the same firm) just pay a fee to someone to have the right to collect fines and if this isn't merely just a cash cow for them.

Or do they even have the rights to collect these fines ?

 

Also in this day and age why people use torrents to download movies etc is strange as I don't think many of them realise that while torrenting something they are actually sharing the copyrighted material which is where the law comes in and with streaming and other methods there is a grey area because with those methods you're not sharing the material.

 

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42 minutes ago, padjo said:

The password free one is routed through a vpn so if someboday does something naughty on the guest wifi, it will only be traced back to the vpn servers, not to your house. 

When the shit hits the fan and lawyers start contacting the VPN company then they'll give your name up at the drop of a hat.

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16 minutes ago, Keleth said:

When the shit hits the fan and lawyers start contacting the VPN company then they'll give your name up at the drop of a hat.

 

If they have any sense then the supplier will only be some kind of middle man for a contract with a vpn company somewhere well out of easy reach of lawyers.  Like the bahamas or whatever.

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Easy, vpn server is in a country where copyright enforcement is lax. 

Point 2 use a vpn service that advertise that they don't keep logs , meaning they can't trace anything back to you even if the vpn company is instructed to do so. Keleth makes a good point. There is a big shift to streaming nowadays . Has a few advantages, no need to wait for a download to finish, low risk of being sued as it's  a grey area, no need to delete after watching. 

I use xbmc , putlocker and others for streaming . I still use bitorrent a bit but not like i used to . When i bittorrent i use seedoxes which are speedy and cheap. 

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I have to stick up for fraufruit here  My son was speeding in our car. The car is registered to my husband, my husband received a ticket. He would have had to pay it if my son didn't step up. (OK in this case I hid it from my husband and had my son pay it without his knowledge, just keeping the peace LOL) But even though my husband loaned the car to my son he would be responsible to pay the ticket. They leave it up to you to track down the person. I guess same could be applied to the internet.

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I also back Frau fruit. These days, even if it is a friend,  I would not allow unlimited access to my computer. Too many hackers, viruses etc.  With guests,  I let them check emails.  Family members- well, they all bring their own  iPad, tablets, smart phones.

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1 hour ago, programdirector said:

I have to stick up for fraufruit here  My son was speeding in our car. The car is registered to my husband, my husband received a ticket. He would have had to pay it if my son didn't step up. (OK in this case I hid it from my husband and had my son pay it without his knowledge, just keeping the peace LOL) But even though my husband loaned the car to my son he would be responsible to pay the ticket. They leave it up to you to track down the person. I guess same could be applied to the internet.

 

Well, I'm not a law expert, certainly not in Germany. But back home, the picture is there for a reason, and if you for example cover your face with a coke bottle (how insanely stupid that is while speeding) you're off the hook. There has to be proof of who drove the car, as it is the driver, not the car who is the offender. 

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1 hour ago, programdirector said:

I have to stick up for fraufruit here  My son was speeding in our car. The car is registered to my husband, my husband received a ticket. He would have had to pay it if my son didn't step up.

The legal situation concerning cars is slightly tricky in Germany, but I think the comparison to the internet is actually interesting in this case:

There is "Halterhaftung" and "Fahrerhaftung", i.e. the owner or the driver is responsible, depending on the situation. For an illegally parked car, there is Halterhaftung. Your car, your problem, no matter who drove it. For accidents and speeding, the driver is responsible. For the former, this is standard, for the latter, a lot of other countries hold the owner responsible. If you cannot be identified on the picture that the speed camera took (or if you handily have a twin brother), you can get out of the fine (but you might be required to keep a detailed log from that point on so that in the future in can be determined who was driving your car at a certain point in time).

 

For the internet, what we have right now amounts to "Halterhaftung", while a lot of people would rather see "Fahrerhaftung". As much as I detest these bloodsucking lawyers, I think the problem with the equivalent of "Fahrerhaftung" for the internet would be that it would be close to impossible to pursue any misdemeanor on the internet, the owner of the connection could always claim that somebody else used his connection. If everybody had to be properly authenticated, on the other hand, we would lose all anonymity. I think that the current situation is not that bad (name the guilty party of cough up the money), but we should make sure that these ridiculous charges for Abmahnungen are reduced. (There is actually a law that limits the lawyers fees to a rather reasonable amount in "simple cases" but of course all lawyers try to argue that this very case is not simple...)

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17 hours ago, Keleth said:

When the shit hits the fan and lawyers start contacting the VPN company then they'll give your name up at the drop of a hat.

 

I'm sure they would already be doing so if it were legal.

 

I'm not sure which type of shit would have to hit the fan in order to change those laws.

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10 hours ago, fraufruit said:

 

I'm sure they would already be doing so if it were legal.

 

I'm not sure which type of shit would have to hit the fan in order to change those laws.

What's not legal ?

Yes they need a court order the VPN won't give your name out without that but if he is giving away free internet and people start downloading a lot of copyrighted material off it then there will definitely be lawyers going after him.

Anyone who thinks a VPN gives you anonymity on the web is mad.

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On 29/01/2016, 16:44:50, RedMidge said:

I also back Frau fruit. These days, even if it is a friend,  I would not allow unlimited access to my computer. Too many hackers, viruses etc.  With guests,  I let them check emails.  Family members- well, they all bring their own  iPad, tablets, smart phones.

Home network:

- MAC-based filtering (only known devices can connect)

- password-protected (in case someone manages to get a hold of one of the authorized MAC addresses)

- policy: allow everything, filter out common p2p ports/protocols (e.g. in case you accidentally install something which has some hidden torrent client)

 

Separate WiFi network for guests.

- No MAC filtering

- password-protected (_strong_ password)

- policy: forbid any outgoing/incoming connection, except specific ports/protocols (e.g. http / https).

Most routers can do this without investing an arm an a leg in them.

 

First line of defence though: common sense. "Hi, may I connect to your WiFi?", says friend/relative/guest. "Sure, here's the guest network. No p2p please", I say.

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14 hours ago, Keleth said:

What's not legal ?

Yes they need a court order the VPN won't give your name out without that but if he is giving away free internet and people start downloading a lot of copyrighted material off it then there will definitely be lawyers going after him.

Anyone who thinks a VPN gives you anonymity on the web is mad.

i'm mad

if the vpn does not keep logs then there is no traceback to me . it's that simple. Do they keep logs. Possibly some even though they say they don't . They know if it leaks out on the internet that they are giving up people based on ip address for illegal cipyright, they will lose bucket loads of custom. It's in their interest not to keep logfiles. The only reason why they would keep them is pressure from the government. 

 

and they are not going to put pressure on the vpn for a case of illegal downloading. They will keep their powder dry for stuff like suspected terrorism,money laundering, child porn and whatever other big stuff. 

 

i use private internet access

 

If you download movies on my guest internet which will be called something like freifunk munchen, me and thousands of others (berlin has freifunk berlin) are taking the 'risk' of your copyright download being linked to my internet connection, is that the gues network is going through freifunks vpn. 

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14 hours ago, Keleth said:

What's not legal ?

Yes they need a court order the VPN won't give your name out without that but if he is giving away free internet and people start downloading a lot of copyrighted material off it then there will definitely be lawyers going after him.

Anyone who thinks a VPN gives you anonymity on the web is mad.

 

First, who is giving away free internet?

 

While not totally believing that a VPN gives one anonymity, they must do a pretty good job or they wouldn't exist. Some have been around for several years.

 

Doesn't one have to be suspected of something more serious than watching a movie in order for them to get a court order?

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21 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

 

First, who is giving away free internet?

 

While not totally believing that a VPN gives one anonymity, they must do a pretty good job or they wouldn't exist. Some have been around for several years.

 

Doesn't one have to be suspected of something more serious than watching a movie in order for them to get a court order?

freifunkmunchen which was in the post that I originally quoted.

We had the same sort of thing in a small town next to us then one day they found schoolkids were ending up with tablets full of porn and downloaded movies so they ended up stopping the project which is a shame really.

 

The big mistake that people make is that they think a VPN gives you anonymity whereas it doesn't.It gives you privacy.Many interesting articles on there with even some honest VPN companies admitting it is private not anon.Apparently even Tor doesn't give you anonymity.

 

https://www.goldenfrog.com/blog/myths-about-vpn-logging-and-anonymity

http://blog.spotflux.com/debunking-the-myths-of-vpn-service-providers/

 

Unless your VPN is being used by 1000s of users for illegal content then they're not going to bother but just the fact people think they're "safe" while using a VPN makes me laugh.

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private internet access claim not to do logging. Of course they do some type of logging so they can catch problems as they occur, how else would they know there is a problem except for customers calling up. The thnig is that they should refresh their logs every say 12 hours . 

 

They seem to do their best to protect the paying customer, or so it's looks like

https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/pages/dmca-policy?gclid=CM3znID608oCFQTlwgodqqoI7A

 

anyway it's infinitely better than nothing and bittorrent is on the wane anyway. 

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