Accused of torrenting copyrighted material

[TallGuy 131]

@ Hutcho, not necessarily the worst advice,... he just failed to mention that the OP should have read this post first.

 

How many people have had to appear in court after following this advice? Of the 8 people I know of personally "none"

[Guest]

@Hutcho, well the guy works only with IT-Recht and he told me that every week someone shows up with the same case and in the past 2 years he went only once to the court.

I'd rather believe in a lawyer than in a web-forum, pardon me if I'm wrong.

[spitze86 12]

I've been getting quite a few messages. As mentioned before, I used Kanzlei Hoesmann. They charged 250 for the life of the correspondence of this specific case. Correspondence went silent a month or two ago. Like the others who posted here, I assume they will start shooting another round in a few months again. As said above, they also said they handle several of these cases and never went to court. I'd rather a lawyer deal with it anyways.

 

Also an FYI, the lawyer said do not respond to such a letter and say your friend downloaded something and you didn't know. You now have shown guilt of the friend, and German law says you are also guilty for not stopping them (as you are the owner of the internet connection). You both get in trouble.

[Hutcho 2,227]

 

@Hutcho, well the guy works only with IT-Recht and he told me that every week someone shows up with the same case and in the past 2 years he went only once to the court.

I'd rather believe in a lawyer than in a web-forum, pardon me if I'm wrong.

 

The reason you need to at least respond to the Unterlassungserklärung is because of this:

 

 

Gar nicht auf eine Abmahnung zu reagieren ist in der Regel die ungünstigste Verhaltensweise. Sofern gar nicht reagiert wird, kann der Rechteinhaber im Rahmen einer sog. einstweiligen Verfügung versuchen die mutmaßlich verletzen Rechte gericht geltend zu machen. Im Rahmen eines einstweiligen Verfügungsverfahrens werden die Ansprüche des Rechteinhabers jedoch nicht umfassend überprüft, sondern der Rechteinhaber muss seinen Anspruch nur Glaubhaftmachen, so dass selbst bei einer unberechtigten Abmahnung nicht auszuschließen ist, dass Sie zumindest vorläufig die erheblichen Kosten eines solchen Verfahrens zu tragen haben, welche in der Regel im Rahmen mehrerer tausend Euro liegen können.

 

In short - if you don't send a modified cease and desist letter (Unterlassungserklärung), the other side can go to court and with little effort get the court to side with them and force you to pay all the costs for the upcoming dispute, which will like run into many thousands of euros.

[Adam Sweeny 9]

 

He told me to never contact them and never sign anything

"Due to the current uncertainty concerning the legal situation, we would strongly advise you not to stick you head in the sand and do nothing. If you do so, the opposition law firm may seek an injunction against you. Injunction proceedings are extremely costly and carry a lot of legal risks."

I'd rather believe in a lawyer than in a web-forum, pardon me if I'm wrong.

Advice above is from Solmeckes FAQ, not just a web forum

@ Hutcho, not necessarily the worst advice,... he just failed to mention that the OP should have read this post first.

"You may find examples of modified declarations to cease and desist on the internet. However, caution is needed, as there are often examples of modified declarations to cease and desist which do not fulfil all the necessary legal requirements. Should the declaration be too narrowly formulated the opposition law firm may decide to reject it and seek an injunction to enforce their pre-formulated declaration to cease and desist. As a result, the content of the declaration should be carefully considered. The declaration should contain as much information as necessary and as little information as possible. If in doubt, it is advisable to seek legal assistance with this very important (and possibly expensive) aspect."

I can confirm that the Solmecke letter is much, much, much better than the link you posted.

How many people have had to appear in court after following this advice? Of the 8 people I know of personally "none"

Those who did it with a lawyer, around 2%. Those who went DIY not sure, although my bet would be higher than 2%. At this point you would be kicking yourself that you just didn't go with a lawyer in the first place.

[sneaker 871]

 

Those who did it with a lawyer, around 2%. Those who went DIY not sure, although my bet would be higher than 2%.

That number is meaningless unless we know how many paid. In 2013 an estimated 50% of those with a lawyer paid anyways. That means no trial before a court but can hardly be declared victory.

[Adam Sweeny 9]

Yep Sneaker you're right, I'd love to see some stats. I guess it's hard because the numbers are changing from year to year, plus courts in different regions have different results. Where'd you get the 2013 stats from?

[sneaker 871]

From the annual stats published by the Interessengemeinschaft gegen den Abmahnwahn.

[savoysuit 13]

Got a Lawyer here in Berlin( Kanzlei Hoesmann)to deal with it for 175 euros. Hopefully that's the last of it I'll see.

[silentvatcher 0]

Hello Guys,

I have got an letter yesterday. I am student so I can get Beratunghilfeschein Legal Aid Certificate so I can take free lawyer as per the WBS Christian Solmecke. So on monday we will go to Amtgericht and get this legal aid certificate and will continue the stuff. I will keep you guys updated. If anybody interested please PM me.

[Zyphryl 1]

Hello guys,

I'm looking for some advice as I'm not quite sure how to proceed. The story is the following:

During Fall 2012 I received a letter from Waldorf Frommer charging me about 960 eur for torrenting a movie for some minutes. I went to a lawyer near my home as I felt it was easier to deal with someone I could see, but he ended being a greedy bastard as we had agreed at a "Pauschal" Price but ended charging me a bit extra as he had to send more letters than expected (he only sent about 10 and they were practically the same plus minor changes.) Anyway, I want to avoid doing much through him as I'm afraid he might end up charing more. First help: He mentioned the following in the last letter to me "Das nunmehrige Schreiben ist im Preis enthalten." Unfortunately I haven't been able to fully understand the meaning of nunmehrige in its full extend and a german friend was not able to help me. Does it mean that only that letter or all further letters (outside going to court)?

We tried to settle at a lower amount stating that it was a guest and by accident but had no better offer from then. Suddenly there was silence for more than 2 years and they started sending letters again. Now they have made an offer of about 650. I would like to settle for a lower fee (or not paying at all) and I can't trust my lawyer to do much negotiation as he might be capable of charging extra. As this case will pass its 3 full years "life expectancy" by the end of the year, I don't know how much possibilities there are by just ignoring them. Logic tells me that as I have already offered something, they will avoid going emtpyhanded. So guys, in your opinion, is it best to continue negotiating or ignoring them for now by asking my lawyer not to answer them and see what happens.

In advance, I what to thank you all for your advice and especially those of you who gave me advice in the past (2012) =) I wish you all a nice day and a happy resolution to any issue you might have.

[Hutcho 2,227]

 As this case will pass its 3 full years "life expectancy" by the end of the year, I don't know how much possibilities there are by just ignoring them.

​I believe the 3 years "life expectancy" resets itself after they send you another round of letters with demands.

[sneaker 871]

It does not reset itself but it can be extended under certain conditions, e.g. a Mahnbescheid or negotiations.

[FunnyLookingForeigner 526]

Ignore any and all demands for money. Unless of course you actually owe it. Or even think you may owe it.

 

[foreign in fatherland 108]

Zyphryl - definitely find a different lawyer - fixed price is fixed price - this guy is no better than Waldorf Fromer...

[sry 0]

Hello guys,

 

I have also had a situation which I hope to seek your advice.

 

Recently I moved away from Germany to another Country (not even in EU), and applied the Nachsendung service from Deutsche Post so as not to miss out any important mail.

 

Then this Waldorf Frommer letter arrived at my mailbox stating that I downloaded something back in the time I was in Germany. I think it was done by my guest as I shared password when I had visitors. Apparently these Lawyers they don't care, so anyway.

 

I do not hold German passport nor live in Germany now, nor intend to move to Germany again in any short time frame (3- 5 years).

 

Do you think I can simply ignore this letter and any follow up letter from them?

 

Thanks for your advice!

[Allershausen 6,414]

Apparently this anti downloading thing is happening in the UK too. Sky Broadband customers targeted for allegedly pirating Robert Redford film.

[Biglaa 147]

Hmmm. From what I recall from looking into it a few years ago, under UK law they have to be able to prove that it was a specific person who intentionally infringed the copyright. Unlike Germany, where the owner of the connection is liable.

[elessar 0]

Hi all,

 

I would also like to share my experience and ask for help from the TT community.

 

I had received the first letter from WF in 03/13 and responded with Modified Unterlassungserkärung. Then they sent me a couple of letters in the next months saying that they accept the MU but still asking for the amount to be paid. I never replied to those letters.

 

Since then it was complete silence until some days ago... They sent a new letter titled "Zahlungsaufforderung vor Klageerhebung' once again accepting my MU (that I had sent in the beginning) and asking for the amount (also offering monthly installments).

 

It is the first time that I am seriously thinking of paying them although I cannot really afford it...

 

My main question though is: If I pay, will this stop for good? Or must I hire a lawer anyway to deal with my situation?

 

The other alternative, as I understood, is to simply ignore this letter as well, which will most probably lead to a Mahnbescheid (yellow letter) which I definitely have to object to ('wiedersprechen') and therefore potentially leading to a court case (or in the best case scenario that their claim expires).

 

I would also like to ask you if you have any experience with the legal fees from the above mentioned 'good' lawyers (WBS, Wachs, etc...) when the case goes to court?

 

All I want is that this matter stops for ever (and as less painfully as possible:))

 

Thanks a lot!!

 

 

[zwiebelfisch 7,067]

I tihnk the answer is simple.  It is not a good idea to sign or say anything that you dont understand, and paying can be considered an admission of guilt.  This means that you need someone who undersands german law helping you out, and that means a lawyer.