Accused of torrenting copyrighted material

2,700 posts in this topic

I just received a letter from those f*ckers last friday, they are charging me for EUR 815,00

I went to a lawyer today here in Sachsen Anhalt and the lawyer simply told me to ignore the letters, they usually send, 1, 2, maximum 3 letters and later they let it go. He told me to never contact them and never sign anything, because that is what they are looking for, for you to claim guilty.

I will wait to see what happens in the next months.

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PMSL

PSML? Pissing Myself Laughing? :unsure:

 

Show Box is a very clever app for Android devices. The iPhone equivalent is Movie Box.

 

Not that I condone the use of these types of streaming apps, of course. :angry:

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I went to a lawyer today here in Sachsen Anhalt and the lawyer simply told me to ignore the letters, they usually send, 1, 2, maximum 3 letters and later they let it go. He told me to never contact them and never sign anything, because that is what they are looking for, for you to claim guilty.

 

I think most people who understand this topic would agree that you've just been given very bad advice by this lawyer.

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@ Hutcho, not necessarily the worst advice,... he just failed to mention that the OP should have read this post first.

 

How many people have had to appear in court after following this advice? Of the 8 people I know of personally "none"

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@Hutcho, well the guy works only with IT-Recht and he told me that every week someone shows up with the same case and in the past 2 years he went only once to the court.

I'd rather believe in a lawyer than in a web-forum, pardon me if I'm wrong.

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I've been getting quite a few messages. As mentioned before, I used Kanzlei Hoesmann. They charged 250 for the life of the correspondence of this specific case. Correspondence went silent a month or two ago. Like the others who posted here, I assume they will start shooting another round in a few months again. As said above, they also said they handle several of these cases and never went to court. I'd rather a lawyer deal with it anyways.

 

Also an FYI, the lawyer said do not respond to such a letter and say your friend downloaded something and you didn't know. You now have shown guilt of the friend, and German law says you are also guilty for not stopping them (as you are the owner of the internet connection). You both get in trouble.

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@Hutcho, well the guy works only with IT-Recht and he told me that every week someone shows up with the same case and in the past 2 years he went only once to the court.

I'd rather believe in a lawyer than in a web-forum, pardon me if I'm wrong.

 

The reason you need to at least respond to the Unterlassungserklärung is because of this:

 

 

Gar nicht auf eine Abmahnung zu reagieren ist in der Regel die ungünstigste Verhaltensweise. Sofern gar nicht reagiert wird, kann der Rechteinhaber im Rahmen einer sog. einstweiligen Verfügung versuchen die mutmaßlich verletzen Rechte gericht geltend zu machen. Im Rahmen eines einstweiligen Verfügungsverfahrens werden die Ansprüche des Rechteinhabers jedoch nicht umfassend überprüft, sondern der Rechteinhaber muss seinen Anspruch nur Glaubhaftmachen, so dass selbst bei einer unberechtigten Abmahnung nicht auszuschließen ist, dass Sie zumindest vorläufig die erheblichen Kosten eines solchen Verfahrens zu tragen haben, welche in der Regel im Rahmen mehrerer tausend Euro liegen können.

 

In short - if you don't send a modified cease and desist letter (Unterlassungserklärung), the other side can go to court and with little effort get the court to side with them and force you to pay all the costs for the upcoming dispute, which will like run into many thousands of euros.

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He told me to never contact them and never sign anything

"Due to the current uncertainty concerning the legal situation, we would strongly advise you not to stick you head in the sand and do nothing. If you do so, the opposition law firm may seek an injunction against you. Injunction proceedings are extremely costly and carry a lot of legal risks."

I'd rather believe in a lawyer than in a web-forum, pardon me if I'm wrong.

Advice above is from Solmeckes FAQ, not just a web forum

@ Hutcho, not necessarily the worst advice,... he just failed to mention that the OP should have read this post first.

"You may find examples of modified declarations to cease and desist on the internet. However, caution is needed, as there are often examples of modified declarations to cease and desist which do not fulfil all the necessary legal requirements. Should the declaration be too narrowly formulated the opposition law firm may decide to reject it and seek an injunction to enforce their pre-formulated declaration to cease and desist. As a result, the content of the declaration should be carefully considered. The declaration should contain as much information as necessary and as little information as possible. If in doubt, it is advisable to seek legal assistance with this very important (and possibly expensive) aspect."

I can confirm that the Solmecke letter is much, much, much better than the link you posted.

How many people have had to appear in court after following this advice? Of the 8 people I know of personally "none"

Those who did it with a lawyer, around 2%. Those who went DIY not sure, although my bet would be higher than 2%. At this point you would be kicking yourself that you just didn't go with a lawyer in the first place.

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Those who did it with a lawyer, around 2%. Those who went DIY not sure, although my bet would be higher than 2%.

That number is meaningless unless we know how many paid. In 2013 an estimated 50% of those with a lawyer paid anyways. That means no trial before a court but can hardly be declared victory.

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Yep Sneaker you're right, I'd love to see some stats. I guess it's hard because the numbers are changing from year to year, plus courts in different regions have different results. Where'd you get the 2013 stats from?

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Got a Lawyer here in Berlin( Kanzlei Hoesmann)to deal with it for 175 euros. Hopefully that's the last of it I'll see.

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Hello Guys,

I have got an letter yesterday. I am student so I can get Beratunghilfeschein Legal Aid Certificate so I can take free lawyer as per the WBS Christian Solmecke. So on monday we will go to Amtgericht and get this legal aid certificate and will continue the stuff. I will keep you guys updated. If anybody interested please PM me.

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Hello guys,

I'm looking for some advice as I'm not quite sure how to proceed. The story is the following:

During Fall 2012 I received a letter from Waldorf Frommer charging me about 960 eur for torrenting a movie for some minutes. I went to a lawyer near my home as I felt it was easier to deal with someone I could see, but he ended being a greedy bastard as we had agreed at a "Pauschal" Price but ended charging me a bit extra as he had to send more letters than expected (he only sent about 10 and they were practically the same plus minor changes.) Anyway, I want to avoid doing much through him as I'm afraid he might end up charing more. First help: He mentioned the following in the last letter to me "Das nunmehrige Schreiben ist im Preis enthalten." Unfortunately I haven't been able to fully understand the meaning of nunmehrige in its full extend and a german friend was not able to help me. Does it mean that only that letter or all further letters (outside going to court)?

We tried to settle at a lower amount stating that it was a guest and by accident but had no better offer from then. Suddenly there was silence for more than 2 years and they started sending letters again. Now they have made an offer of about 650. I would like to settle for a lower fee (or not paying at all) and I can't trust my lawyer to do much negotiation as he might be capable of charging extra. As this case will pass its 3 full years "life expectancy" by the end of the year, I don't know how much possibilities there are by just ignoring them. Logic tells me that as I have already offered something, they will avoid going emtpyhanded. So guys, in your opinion, is it best to continue negotiating or ignoring them for now by asking my lawyer not to answer them and see what happens.

In advance, I what to thank you all for your advice and especially those of you who gave me advice in the past (2012) =) I wish you all a nice day and a happy resolution to any issue you might have.

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 As this case will pass its 3 full years "life expectancy" by the end of the year, I don't know how much possibilities there are by just ignoring them.

​I believe the 3 years "life expectancy" resets itself after they send you another round of letters with demands.

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It does not reset itself but it can be extended under certain conditions, e.g. a Mahnbescheid or negotiations.

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Hello guys,

 

I have also had a situation which I hope to seek your advice.

 

Recently I moved away from Germany to another Country (not even in EU), and applied the Nachsendung service from Deutsche Post so as not to miss out any important mail.

 

Then this Waldorf Frommer letter arrived at my mailbox stating that I downloaded something back in the time I was in Germany. I think it was done by my guest as I shared password when I had visitors. Apparently these Lawyers they don't care, so anyway.

 

I do not hold German passport nor live in Germany now, nor intend to move to Germany again in any short time frame (3- 5 years).

 

Do you think I can simply ignore this letter and any follow up letter from them?

 

Thanks for your advice!

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