Accused of torrenting copyrighted material

2,670 posts in this topic

I have a question.

 

I've downloaded some mp3 files directly with IDM from vk.com, not via torrent, will I get into trouble with this?

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Thanks Sneaker for the links.

 

I still think this seems a bit unfair on the IP owner.

 

It a bit like me speeding in your car and getting a ticket and then the law enforcement agencies not asking who was driving the car at that point in time.

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[adminmerge][/adminmerge]

 

I just want to be totally clear on this...

 

I know it's a general no here in Germany but what is possible and what isn't?

 

I've heard various recommendations. I've heard streaming if fine, downloading isn't?

 

Would I be safe if I used a VPN?

 

What's the general rules? (Or is it just don't do it?)

 

Thanks.

 

No doubt this has been asked in a different way before but I searched and couldn't find an answer.

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The great big thread 'Accused of torrenting...' has an FAQ from www.wbs-law.de posted a few times in it. You can find the first mention of it Accused of torrenting copyrighted material.

The website for wbs-law has an interesting English language news section tracking latest case news etc regarding copyright in Germany.

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595 euro is out of court costs only, so it includes negotiating a reduced settlement if it comes to that, and then yes if it goes to court then there will be more costs. If I did eventually get taken to court then yes technically I've wasted 595 euro, but I believe it will be a good investment as it makes me a much smaller target like I posted earlier.

 

No I don't have any stats to back this up, it's just my gut feel after lots of research. In the end all of us here are just making educated guesses in accordance with our individual situation and risk adverseness.

 

Other things that factored in my decision making were that I had been torrenting for months before the first letter so the chances of more coming were high. Secondly I am also living with a german family and didnt want to deal with the follow up letters, the first one was hard enough to explain. I would have been more tempted to go it alone if my situation was different, but I still think Solmecke was a good investment.

 

For those in Munich, I would add that while shopping around originally for a lawyer I called some of the others recommended here and elsewhere, and a few of them did mention that Munich was WF's favourite hunting ground, and that up here in NRW the chances of me being taken to court were much lower.

 

Day Glow Dave do yourself a favour and read through the thread over the weekend. Fair has nothing to do with it.

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I believe it will be a good investment as it makes me a much smaller target

You're an idiot. It makes you a HUGE target. You have admitted guilt. You're on the short list if WF or any other one of these filth is forced to actually take someone to court to prove they're not just demand-scamming (which they are).

 

 

No I don't have any stats to back this up

Because none exist?

 

 

it's just my gut feel after lots of research.

Would that be the same gut feeling that you had when you figured torrents are so ubiquitous and your list was so small that you'd never show up on their radar? You claim "lots of research" and yet have nothing to back up your claims or gut feelings.

 

 

all of us here are just making educated guesses in accordance with our individual situation and risk adverseness

Speak for yourself, Sunshine. I read this thread and much other information. Having paid attention to it all I didn't contact WF myself, wouldn't talk to any lawyer who would go the negotiation route, and haven't paid jack shit, save for a one-time specialist lawyer fee. So maybe I should thank you for taking the heat for me.

 

 

do yourself a favour and read through the thread 5over the weekend.

Now that's the first sensible thing I've seen you write. Let's hope for his sake that Day Glo Dave is a bit more cautious and a bit less interpretive.

 

woof.

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Having paid attention to it all I didn't contact WF myself, wouldn't talk to any lawyer who would go the negotiation route, and haven't paid jack shit, save for a one-time specialist lawyer fee. So maybe I should thank you for taking the heat for me.

woof.

 

So tell us all..

 

Who did you pay and how much..?

 

Oink..

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You're an idiot. It makes you a HUGE target. You have admitted guilt. You're on the short list if WF or any other one of these filth is forced to actually take someone to court to prove they're not just demand-scamming (which they are).

 

No I haven't

 

 

Because none exist?

 

Are you asking a question, or are you pretending to know something more and just not saying it?

 

 

Would that be the same gut feeling that you had when you figured torrents are so ubiquitous and your list was so small that you'd never show up on their radar? You claim "lots of research" and yet have nothing to back up your claims or gut feelings.

 

Wrong again. Feel free to share any game changing research you've discovered champ.

 

 

Speak for yourself, Sunshine. I read this thread and much other information. Having paid attention to it all I didn't contact WF myself, wouldn't talk to any lawyer who would go the negotiation route, and haven't paid jack shit, save for a one-time specialist lawyer fee. So maybe I should thank you for taking the heat for me.

 

So we've done exactly the same thing. Are you actually retarded?

 

 

woof.

 

That answers that question then

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Fair has nothing to do with it.

 

Copy and paste from Here

 

fairness:

noun aequitas, appropriateness, balance, disinterestedness, dispassionateness, equality, eqqitable treatment, equitableness, equity, evenhanded justice, evenhandedness, fair-mindedness, fair play, fair treattent, honesty, impartiality, integrity, iustitia, just dealing, justness, lack of corruption, lack of prejudice, open-mindedness, probity, reasonableness, rectitude, right, rightfulness, rightness, scrupulousness, unbiasedness, uprightness

 

 

Now that's the first sensible thing I've seen you write. Let's hope for his sake that Day Glo Dave is a bit more cautious and a bit less interpretive.

 

I think this link answers my question. Which I could not find in Toytown I did try.

 

BTW: Not Guilty

 

Thanks.

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Copy and paste from Here

 

fairness:

noun aequitas, appropriateness, balance, disinterestedness, dispassionateness, equality, eqqitable treatment, equitableness, equity, evenhanded justice, evenhandedness, fair-mindedness, fair play, fair treattent, honesty, impartiality, integrity, iustitia, just dealing, justness, lack of corruption, lack of prejudice, open-mindedness, probity, reasonableness, rectitude, right, rightfulness, rightness, scrupulousness, unbiasedness, uprightness

 

I think this link answers my question. Which I could not find in Toytown I did try.

 

If you wanna start teaching your granny to suck eggs on the word definitions front you might find it works best if you avoid copy/pasting tag lists which have blatant spelling errors in them. :P

 

As fuzzytony said, your links didn't work. Next time either delete the existing http:// from the TT macro link before pasting your URL in or paste only the part of your URL which starts with www..

 

FYI the BearShare judgement was in a case where adult family members living in the same home had access to the appellant's internet connection. An appeal based on that judgement would be likely to be rejected unless the conditions regarding the relationships between the accused ISP holder and any other parties with authorized access to their internet connection were the same or similar.

Rechtsprechung: I ZR 169/12 - dejure.org (BearShare case)

Internet-Law » Filesharing: BearShare-Entscheidung des BGH im Volltext

 

For further examples of (sometimes partially or fully contradictory) subsequent judgements in German filesharing cases please see also:

Filesharing in der Normfamilie | law blog

Internet-Law » Rechtsprechung zum Filesharing weiter uneinheitlich (03.03.2015)

LG Muenchen I 12.2014 Rechtsprechung: 21 S 26548/13 (Filesharing co-liability of IP owner)

DAWR > Filesharing im Mehrpersonenhaushalt: LG Potsdam verneint Haftung des Internet-Anschlussinhabers < Deutsches Anwaltsregister and...

JurPC Web-Dok. 39/2015

LG Potsdam Urteil vom 08.01.2015 AZ: 2 O 252/14 Zur sekundären Darlegungslast in Filesharing-Fällen:

 

 

 

  1. Die tatsächliche Vermutung der Alleinnutzung des Anschlusses durch die Anschlussinhaberin ist bereits widerlegt, wenn nach den Angaben der Anschlussinhaberin deren Ehemann und der Sohn im Haushalt wohnen und freien Zugang zum Internet haben. Weitergehender Feststellungen zum zeitlichen Umfang und zu den Zeitpunkten der Nutzung bedarf es dann nicht, da der der tatsächlichen Vermutung zugrundeliegende Erfahrungssatz bereits widerlegt ist.
  2. Es besteht keine umfassende Recherche- und Aufklärungspflicht für die Anschlussinhaberin innerhalb der Familie. Die Familie steht unter dem besonderen Schutz des Art. 6 GG, der seine einfach gesetzliche Ausprägung in dem Zeugnisverweigerungsrecht nach § 383 ZPO findet. Dies würde man ad absurdum führen, wenn man eine umfangreiche Recherchepflicht innerhalb der Familie annähme. Angesichts der Regelung in § 384 Nr. 1 ZPO erscheint bereits fraglich, ob die Anschlussinhaberin die Pflicht trifft, das Ergebnis einer Befragung der Familienmitglieder mitzuteilen.

Btw I suggest you don't underestimate the difference between jurisdictions which operate under common law and those subject to the Napoleonic code. You may also notice that, for every new judgement issued on the subject, there are usually a series of legal comments or blog posts published in parallel from lawyers on both sides of the debate.

Their choice of headline often makes their primary source of income amusingly obvious too.

"Judgement from XYZ court gives comfort to copyright holders" v "XYZ court judgement signals an end to the cushy treatment of the copyright holder's legal strategy."

 

Please do let us know if you turn up anything that TTers may have missed. I wish you success with your research.

 

2B

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Thanks for the corrections guys (english is not my first language)

 

Thanks 2B for the links they make intresting reading.

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Dear TTers,

I got a letter from Waldorf Frommer , they have asked for 815 Euros fopr uploading of one minute. I have read a lot of previous pages:

 

A few questions:

1) Who is the best lawyer residing in Munich for that. English speaking, money and service wise. I do not want them bothering me in future

2) I have a Rechtshutz Versicherung, what will they cover?

 

Best Wishes

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Dear TTers,

I have an appointment with Frau Riedmayer Kanzlei, does anyone of you have some experience with her, she is offering a Pauschal of 350 euros to deal with the case and anything like that in future.

 

Thanks for a fast reply

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2) I have a Rechtshutz Versicherung, what will they cover?

 

Probably nothing as this sort of thing is often excluded (is from mine). For the definitive answer - as your insurer!

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Hello,

I just read on another forum of somebody that received the letter after streaming on tablet using PopCornTime app .

It seems they started to track streaming apps too...

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It seems they started to track streaming apps too...

 

I don't think so.

As far as I know Popcorn Time streams movies and TV shows from torrents (or uploads in a similar manner).

 

Edit:

"Popcorn Time is a multi-platform, open source Bittorrent client that also includes a really slick media player. It’s designed as a pirate’s alternative to Netflix, only instead of actually streaming unauthorized copies of films using Bittorrent, Popcorn Time uses sequential downloading and uploading to play films in its media player."

 

So the reason he got it is because it also uploads.

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Hi all,

 

So I moved to Germany at the end of January, and due to my living arrangements I ended up sharing an internet connection with somebody who had been there for a while. Like a few people here it seems, I was not aware at first just how bad the situation is here for torrenting and I don't know how many things I torrented (I'd say around 15 as a high guess) but there were multiple files downloaded before I was informed of the law and stopped. Just yesterday the owner of the connection has received a letter regarding one tv show and asking for her to sign a paper saying she won't do it again and to pay nearly 500 euros. She asked me and I said that in all likelihood it was me. Obviously, I accept I made the mistake and told her I'd pay should it be necessary. I don't mind paying, but I earn next to nothing and if this happens multiple times I will be pretty screwed. I don't intend to be here longer than another two or three months, if I had no conscience I could leave but the owner is something of a friend so I cannot do that.

 

What I want to know is, how useful it would be to find a lawyer if there is a chance this could happen again or possibly multiple times? And how would that change things if I'm the one at fault but not the owner of the connection. I've seen people here say that the law has changed so it means the downloader is at fault not the connection owner, and I've seen others who have said the max amount that can be legally asked for is 150 euros. Has anybody else been in this situation?

 

I've seen a lot of people in this thread who have been the victim of someone else using their connection and being footed with the bill when they leave, but what is the suggestion for someone like myself? If it was my connection I would have ignored the letter and booked a flight back to the UK already, but that is not the case and I would prefer to deal with this is a way that doesn't mean my friend is replying to my mistakes for months, but that doesn't destroy my already limited savings.

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