Pension insurance obligations (Rentenversicherung)

117 posts in this topic

Hi all,

 

I am new to this forum..

I would like to know more about the pension refund after I go back to my home country.. As I read through the messages, Pension will be paid if I work in germany under 5 years.

Is that right? Can I claim my pension amount, if I work more than 5 years in Germany and then go back to my home country?? What is the minimum or maximum number of years that I should work in Germany to get some pension money later??

 

Thanks

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi everyone,

 

is there an official source of information to find out how much of a montly (pension) amount one actually will get in proportion to the number and amount of monthly contributions one actually paid into the German system while working here?

 

Of course I'm sure there are other factors such as if one will be living in Germany or not at the moment one is entitled to begin to receive this pension, but for the moment I'm trying to get my own idea of how worth the German pension system is, considering how much I will be paying monthly during my time working here...

 

This is important for me because I intent to work in Germany for many years, so should things go as planned, I shall be entitled to a German pension in the future...

 

Thanks in advance for your comments.

 

Best regards.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unless you're planning on retiring in the near future, any calculation made at present would be barely worth the paper it's written on. The German pension system is currently unsustainable and will have to be reformed at some point in the future. At the very least that's likely to mean lower pension payouts in future.

 

But as an employee you cannot legally avoid your obligation to contribute to the state system.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guy is right about the German pension system. Most economic analysts that covered this topic and took the demographic factor in consideration actually advised to get private pension only (can be done somehow, google it). this is because they calculated that it is so unsustainable that it will eventually collapse. And Germany is not the only country where this applies.

And seeing how much the pensions have dropped in the past 10 years, i can't but agree.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

is there an official source of information to find out how much of a montly (pension) amount one actually will get in proportion to the number and amount of monthly contributions one actually paid into the German system while working here?

 

As a rough measurement, your contributions are paid back over a period of about 10 years, i.e. you receive (very) roughly 1/120th of your total contributions each month. This corresponds to the average time a German lives after entering pension age (currently). If you live longer than about 77, good for you.

 

The actual function works like this:

- weigh your annual income against average income of other contributors that year*

- receive point value for that year (average = 1.0, maximum capped = 2.15)

- accumulate points until you hit 67, minimum period 5 years.

- modify according to pension starting age (less if earlier than, more if later than 67th birthday)

- receive about 24 Euro monthly for every point accumulated

 

*- official number for that published somewhere, it's somewhere around 30k these days

 

I posted a more detailed variant a couple months ago somewhere on this board.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi there,

 

thanks for your insightful replies. Actually after I posted my question, I found this on TT, which also helped a lot...

 

hmmm I'm now wondering if it actually possible to pay for a private (better) pension ONLY. If I'm given the choice, I wouldn't wanna pay the state pension... I need to research on the topic, but probably a private "international" pension would be the best way to go. I hope it is possible...

 

Thanks again.

Cheers

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

as was said above, if you are an employee you will not have a choice - you HAVE to contribute into the public system. But since the pension derived fromj that would not sustain a normal lifestyle anyway, there are ways and means how you can turn money otherwise "lost" to taxation into private pension claims. This can be very attractive for employees in particular.

Be very wary about the "international pension plans". Most often what is offered there are so-called "offshore pension plans" which are extremely expensive and not exactly to be recommended. Plus, they do offer you no chance to get serious tax cuts in Germany neither...

 

Cheerio

I am a professional independent insurance broker, financial adviser, and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Guy is right about the German pension system. Most economic analysts that covered this topic and took the demographic factor in consideration actually advised to get private pension only (can be done somehow, google it).

 

Hi, yes, my understanding is also that there is no way to escape the state pension, but K0be's comment is what now makes me wonder...

 

Anyways, yes, of course, one would have to be very very careful about these private pensions... I'll look into it eventually, I'm actually curious how "expensive" they are and how they calculate the amount to be paid.

 

Have a great day!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[adminmerge][/adminmerge]

Hello,

 

I'm about to take up employment in Germany. I'm using the Parmentier salary calculator (http://www.parmentier.de/steuer/steuer.htm?wagetax.htm) and would like to understand it. The topmost field to the right allows choosing between "with pension/unemployment insurance" and "without pension/unemployment insurance". I would like to understand is it really an "option" that an employee can exercise?

 

I'm interested in a 2-year contract and planning to work here only for the period of the contract, therefore I'm not interested in securing a pension or unemployment allowance. I would like to maximize the netto salary and avoid the need to "claim" the contribution back at the end of the contract. Any suggestions?

 

Thanks,

Chandram

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pension insurance is mandatory as long as you are a salaried employee. If you remain in Germany for less than 5 years, you can file to reclaim the employee (but not employer) contributions made during your time here.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is one required to back pay if you haven´t been paying contibutions (as a freelancer)

and what about if you are not employed for a period (1year) are you still required to contribute?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you a freelance English teacher (or other eg golf teacher) or a midwife, Barney? Are you referring to the old law of 1913 (I think it was)? I reckon a bit more information would help us and you.

I am a professional independent insurance broker and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Is one required to back pay if you haven´t been paying contibutions (as a freelancer)

 

I don't know for sure but logic would say not. Your pension accrues acording to various factors such as how long you have been in it etc. Although pensions are mutual schemes, by joining late you are not usually riding on the back of others in the way you are for healthcare etc (ie. not stumping up for on on-going healthcare infrastructure when healthy but joining as soon as you need a service).

 

In fact what you often get with decent pension schemes is the opposite - people actively looking to back pay ("buying added years") for periods when they were not in employment eetc!

 

The exception is presumably in theory that one with that legal obligation under that ancient law for certain freelance work (eg. teaching).

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thx for the quick replys!

 

Yes, the freelance teacher situation, therefore must pay, haven´t been paying!! long story short want to set things right, however fear huge unpayable bills!!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Barney! "Thx for the quick replys"..sound like a young, modern English teacher! :D ..(my daughter is the same with this text speak..).How long have you been an English teacher here? How long are you staying? Are you with one school? Are you doing anything else? Have you got a letter from the bastards asking you for money? Have you done a tax declaration as a teacher? Have you tried another description: instead of English teacher...native English speaker, international communicator, language facilitator? (Only half-jesting..there are many people I know who´ve got away with this nonsense..ok, some haven´t..but what is your current Angst?). What has happened?

I am a professional independent insurance broker and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a question. I have recently been given the permission to work as a freimitarbeiterin/freelancer in a massage therapist position. The place I am going to be working wants proof that I do not have to pay Rentenversicherung. I have read on here that I do not have to pay Rentenversicherung unless I am a teacher, hebamme, etc... But I need proof that I don't have to pay it. Can anyone advise me on what I have to do or where I can go to get this proof?

Any advice appreciated.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is, wanderlust, the list is longer: any kind of"selbstständiger" teacher/trainer, "Pflegepersonen" (does that include massage therapists?), coastal fishermen, Selbstständige without employees with compulsory social insurance contributions and who work for only one "Auftraggeber" essentially and long term. The Bundessozialgericht has also stated this obligatory insurance also affects these professional groups even if these professions are carried out as a side job next to a main job. Will have to fish out the law somewhere for you but it doesn´t look good.It´s all mentioned under Paragraf 2 SGB V1.Having said that, if you live here and pay into the thing, it´s possible to get your contributions back if you are working here for less than 5 years and apply for a refund two years after having left the country (as a non-EU citizen).

I am a professional independent insurance broker and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the fast reply John.G. I have an appointment with the Rentenversicherung office here and I will have to see what they say...

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wanderlust: if you are working for the first time as a self-employed person in Germany you can acutally apply to the Bundesrentenanstalt in a way that you can be exempted for up to three years from the pension payments. Thomas Zitzelsberger, one of the tax advisors here on Toytown, has done this for a couple of my clients and one of my advisors and you might want to contact him about this.

 

Cheerio

I am a professional independent insurance broker, financial adviser, and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now