Pension insurance obligations (Rentenversicherung)

117 posts in this topic

I really like living in Germany, but I also am really sure that I am not going to grow old and die here. So, the question is.. do I really need to pay for a pension scheme over here out of my hard earned cash that I never intend to use? I would rather use the cash to pay my rent, feed myself and have enough $$ to pay heating etc.

 

If I ever moved back to the States, would I ever be able to claim this sizeable piece of my income back? What about while Im living here? Any opt outs?

 

Thanks

 

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Yep you have to pay!

 

But, if you stay under 5 years, you can claim back the money you paid into it (after you are gone from here for 2 years), or so it was, not sure if that law/rule has changed.

 

You are able to get a German pension then, yeah, it will be a small one if you are only here a year or 2... but, its something, isn't it?

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@ carm - this is not true for all countries, unlucky for us Brits we don't get it back ! Lucky for everyone coming from outside the EU aslong as you leave before 5 years you get it all back.

 

Although as I understand it takes a little while to get it back. A friend from Bulgaria told me it took about a year.

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Pepper, Germans working in the UK don't get any National Insurance back either but do get a pension later.

Whether it is worth anything is another thread entirely mind. :)

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I did get mine back once already, I left here in 98, and after 2 years I did the form, sent it to Berlin, and I got a cheque in the mail about 4 weeks later. But you only get the portion YOU paid into... the portion paid by the employers is lost if you cash out. Or, you get a German Pension... at least Canadians do, we have a pension agreement with Germany.

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@MT - I think (although I could be 100% completely wrong on this) that there is general agreement inside the EU, so this means anyone inside the EU won't get it back. Agreed, whether its worth it, is really another question !

 

@ Carm - Thanks for that, was not sure if you get the employer part or not. So I guess the goverment just keeps that. Hmm... good easy money for them.

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Thing is that after 72 month you are entiteld to get a german pension (includes a disability pension from the first day of the 73rd month! - only if you are living in germany of course), but as far as I know, after this period you can't claim back a single penny...

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Thing is that after 72 month you are entiteld to get a german pension (includes a disability pension from the first day of the 73rd month! - only if you are living in germany of course)

No. If you have paid money into the system that you can't for whatever reason get out you will get a proportionate pension, wherever you live.

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Hi all,

 

I am a spanish (still EU :P) and I am going to work in Germany, I will have a salary income lower than 48k€. I will start in April, and I have 6 months of Probe Period.

 

My doubt is if i can not to pay both "Rentenversicherung" and "Arbeitlosversicherung", the first 6 months, as far as I am not going to stay in Germany without a work (my girlfriend is going to wait for me in Spain, durig this period) and I don't want to stay in Germany longer than 2 or 3 years.

 

If I have to pay it, could I ask for get this money back if I come back to Spain?

 

Thank you very much.

Ivan

 

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Ivan spaniard: from your description above you will be in an employment where taxes, public health insurance,public pension, unemployment insurance etc. will be deducted from your paycheck so that you only receive the net-amount in the end...

 

Since you are an EU citizen, you can not claim back the public pension payments you involuntarily make to the German public pension system at all. What happens is if and when you get back to Spain again (which I can understand very much if just for the weather) the payments you made in Germany will be counted towards your future Spanish pension since all EU countries exchange these data and mutually recognize the claims within their own pension systems. To get back the pension payments is only possible nowadays for people not coming from going to an EU memberstate, EFTA state and another number of state with which Germany has bilateral agreements. I was told that even with Australia (but not NewZealand) there are such bilaterla agreements and you can't get your pension payments back anymore. If anyone wants a list of these countries, there is one on the website of the public pension system and I quoted it somewhere here already on Toytown not long agao.

 

As for the unemployment insurance: sorry again - this is not an insurance with a no-claims-bonus but a social construct where everybody (in employment) pays in and support by this the others currenty or in future times suffering from unemployment. If you pay in 20 years you still get only the same benefits like someone who paid in 3 years, thus people like you contribute in an involuntarily benevolent way to the total pot of money...

Sorry, but you're stuck with that, I am affraid.

 

Cheerio

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Thank you very much, it seems that I will have to pay "all the pack". My problem is that the first months my girlfriend will stay in Spain, and I will have to pay two rents and many flights from Munich to Madrid. And if I am happy with the enviroment and the work, she will finally come with me, and there will be no problem to pay all.

 

Thank you again for all the info!

 

Ivan

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Ivan: looking at what you wrote above with regards to keeping two households and traveling to-and-thro: get yourself soon a tax advisor because you might be able to claim some of the costs back in your tax return for double household costs and as "Werbungskosten". Worth a try...

 

Cheerio

I am a professional independent insurance broker, financial adviser, and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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No. If you have paid money into the system that you can't for whatever reason get out you will get a proportionate pension, wherever you live.

Are the pensions really paid irrespective of wherever you live?? seems too good to be true.

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It's quite normal for pensioners to live in a different country from their own - so of course you can have it paid to another country assuming you have met the rules over entitlement referred to earlier (eg. periods paying in).

 

However this can have some hitches (and I'm referring here only to UK pensions to give an example):

 

(1) The pension is paid in the currency of the originating nation. This is not always favourable if that currency's value plummets (as Brit pensioners have found recently as the GBP flounders). It also means currency conversion charges will eat into it at some point.

 

(2) Basic entitlements in repsect of state pension if you live in the nation of the pension don't always apply abroad. For example, it's usual to get some "inflation" type increase on the UK pension. EU residents get that but Brits in some countries don't (which results in horror stories about some pensioners living on a value of 20 pence set in 1975 etc).

 

(3) Some specific rules may work against people abroad. For example, the pension for UK government workers (ie. a de facto "company pension" not a "state" one) automatically has tax deducted whereas no doubt many of us would find it easier to get it paid gross and handle tax matters purely locally.

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Swimmer. I am in receipt of 2 UK pensions that are taxed at source in the UK because

they are "public service pensions" (= Beamterente) and are covered under the dual taxation agreement

between D and the UK.

I also have German income. It is not a problem at all- you just tell the D tax authorities in your Steuererklärung what the amounts are.

My German "personal allowance" is absorbed in the payments from the UK but that is fair

enough - one cannot expect to get the benefit of a personal allowance in both countries.

It's really not a problem, could even be an advantage as personal allowances for the over 65's in the UK are pretty high.

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