Problem getting birth certificate for newborn

61 posts in this topic

Hello everyone!

 

I have been a reader of Toytown Germany for a long time, but this is my first post and I would like your help, please!

 

I have been working here in Aachen - Germany since 2010 and will leave Germany on 31.01.2013.

 

I have brought my wife and my son (2 year old) here to stay with me since 2010. Our marriage and the first child birth were all registered in my country. Recently my wife gave birth to our second child.

 

I have come to the Standesamt to register the birth of my newborn baby (to get a Geburturkunde) but they refused to provide one because they do not accept our marriage certificate from our country (although it was certified and translated to German). This is the very same document that I submitted to the Germany Embassy in my country so I can bring my wife and my first child here. So in their view, me and my wife are not legally married here in Germany. It is a bit ridiculous, given that is the reason why my wife can be here.

 

Without the Gerburturkunde for my newborn baby, I cannot obtain her passport (as my country embassy here in Berlin requires that to provide a passport) and a residence permit, that means we cannot travel anywhere or get out of Germany on 31.01.2013.

 

So my question is that: Is it possible to register my child's Geburturkunde as unmarried parents with me and my wife both going to the Standesamt. Is it going to be a different form with the one for married parents. Will that affect anything for the child later on?

 

Benefits and parenting laws in Germany are not important to us, because we are leaving the country in three months anyway. We just need to get this document so we can get out of here.

 

Thanks so much for reading!

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Wow, that's ridiculous! Did you try to speak to a different person at the amt? I've had documents refused (in relation to getting married in Berlin). But went back a different day & spoke to someone else who accepted the document.

 

The birth cert will be with your child for life, so I guess it's important that the details are accurate? I personally wouldn't be comfortable with that in case it raises issues down the line. (Not only in Germany but other countries you may move to... can you imagine the second child not vetting a visa / permit in another country because you're not married?)

 

I would ask for assistance at the embassy. Did they say *why* they won't accept the marriage cert? madness!!!

 

I really hope this is resolved quickly!

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Sure, you can register the birth there, but the birth certificate still comes from the German side since the child was born in Germany.

 

I thought you only needed the parents' ID and birth certificates to get the child's birth certificate. I don't know if you can apply as an umarried couple since you are actually married.

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OIC.

 

But why does anyone in Germany care if the parents are married or not? Thousands of babies are born out of wedlock every year in Germany and still get a birth cert. Don't you just take a piece of paper from the hospital to the registration office and Bob's your uncle (esp. if the mother goes)?

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I have come to the Standesamt to register the birth of my newborn baby (to get a Geburturkunde) but they refused to provide one because they do not accept our marriage certificate from our country (although it was certified and translated to German). This is the very same document that I submitted to the Germany Embassy in my country so I can bring my wife and my first child here.

Did the German Embassy require a Vertrauensanwalt to verify your documents when you applied for your wife's permit?

 

 

But why does anyone in Germany care if the parents are married or not? Thousands of babies are born out of wedlock every year in Germany and still get a birth cert.

The issue is probably not so much the marriage, but the identity of the parents. The Standesamt wants to see parents' birth certificates to confirm their identity and they won't accept birth certificates from certain countries unless they are verified.

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But why does anyone in Germany care if the parents are married or not?

I don't know why they would care since it's totally irrelevant. Either they are getting the runaround or there's more to the story.

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The issue is probably not so much the marriage, but the identity of the parents. The Standesamt wants to see parents' birth certificates to confirm their identity and they won't accept birth certificates from certain countries unless they are verified.

 

But the OP is talking about a marriage certificate, not the parents' birth certificates. Maybe both are required under certain circumstances?

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Some Standesämter want everything, some are more relaxed. It varies even within Länder.

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Yeah, I just looked at a few other cities and many of them do want it to verify the marital status of the mother.

 

In this document it says that Vietnam does not have a bilateral agreement with Germany and that a Vietnamese marriage certificate would have to be legalized. Is that what you were talking about in your other post, engelchen?

 

Annerkenung deutscher öffentlicher Urkunden im Ausland und ausländischer öffentlicher Urkunden in Deutschland - Bilaterale Abkommen und Haagar Übereinkommen

 

Für ausländische Urkunden erfolgt die Legalisation durch die deutsche Botschaft im

jeweiligen Staat. In einigen Staaten nehmen die deutschen Auslandsvertretungen allerdings

keine Legalisation vor, insbes. wenn es dort zu viele Urkundsfälschungen gibt. Dann ist

ggf. für die Anerkennung der ausländischen Urkunde in Deutschland eine

Einzelfallprüfung durch die deutsche Botschaft auf Bitte des Gerichts, der Behörde oder

des Notars aus Deutschland durchzuführen.

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Yes, the info4alien site has a list of countries where the German Embassy will not provide a Legalisation since there are routinely many forgeries and the applicants need to pay for a Vertrauensanwalt. Normally the German Embassy would have required a Vertrauensanwalt to verify the docs when they applied for the FZF.

 

We can only speculate until the OP provides more info. :rolleyes:

 

Alternatively, he can also post his question directly on info4alien.

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I guess the following might work.

 

1) Tell the behörde people that sending your marriage certificate for validation back to your country and you or behörde receiving them back would take ages (they should/would understand how much trouble it is going through bureaucratic formalities).

2) let them know that you are not going to stay here for long and that in fact your are planning to go back to your country on the date you have mentioned. Not having your child's birth certificate means no passport and no passport means no travel (rocket science ??)

3) Get a letter from your employer (if possible from the head of the institute/company), mentioning that your contract is finishing on so and so date and after that you are planning to go back to your country.

4) Go again to the behörde, be nice, give them the signed letter and hope that the guy you are dealing with is in good mood.

5) If you get the thing (hopefully you would), get back here and let us know :)

 

The above procedure has worked for some guys I know (they were from India and are now in India with birth certificates)

 

chao

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Hi everyone! Thanks a lot for replying to my question.

 

So here are a few more details about my situation:

 

1. My country and Germany do not have bilateral agreement, hence normally it requires a Vertrauensanwalt to bring my wife here. For some reason, this was not done in 2010. At that time, we were more than happy not having to do that, because it saved time and money for us. Probably it was due to the reason that I'm here in Germany on a government-regulated prestigious fellowship. Not sure though, but it was not done. Our translated marriage certificate (we're married in 2005) was enough for the German embassy.

 

2. From experienced people, I know that the validation (Vertrauensanwalt) would take at least three months. That is my remaining time here in Germany :). So practically I cant wait for that.

 

3. My Embassy in Berlin only provides my newborn a passport if I give them the German birth certificate. For all other documents later in her life, I believe that this German birth certificate is more important (and trusted???) than the birth certificate in my language, because she was born in Germany.

 

4. I am in Aachen, a small city. There are only two persons at the Standesamt dealing with this matter, and they are sitting in the same room. So there is no chance to go back and meet another person, hoping it could work :)

 

5. The Standesamt only requires our legalized marriage certificate for registering the child, not our birth certificates. The marital status of the mother is important because of child custody, I guess.

 

Anyway, I finally can make an appointment with the Auslaenderamt tomorrow and will see how they deal with this situation. I will be back with more details.

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My country and Germany do not have bilateral agreement, hence normally it requires a Vertrauensanwalt to bring my wife here. For some reason, this was not done in 2010.

 

This is a problem. I was hoping that the Embassy would have documents you could use.

 

 

The Standesamt only requires our legalized marriage certificate for registering the child, not our birth certificates. The marital status of the mother is important because of child custody, I guess.

 

Or because they would assume that the birth certificates were verified before the marriage certificate was issued. ;)

 

 

Anyway, I finally can make an appointment with the Auslaenderamt tomorrow and will see how they deal with this situation. I will be back with more details.

 

If you haven't already found a solution, I'd strongly suggest that you post your question on info4alien for advice. It is a forum run by employees of the ABHs in Germany and German Consulates and Embassies abroad.

 

 

Is this something a Notar can arrange?

 

The problem is that the German government considers the originals from certain countries unreliable. The Vertraunensanwalt actually goes in person and interviews people who know the applicants to attempt to establish whether the information on the documents is true.

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Would it be nuts to go to Denmark and "renew your vows" i.e. get married again? Or would you have the same issue with Danish auhorities not recognizing your birth certificates?

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I think it would also be helpful to write out a letter from the Amt stating something like in German:

 

I hereby refuse to issue a birth certificate because I do not accept the legally translated marriage certificate of...

 

and politely ask the Beamter to sign it, write out their ID number and stamp it officially.

Beamters are often power hungry small minded little bastards who love refusing to do their job, but terrified of putting such refusals in writing.

 

But he/she has to either sign your letter or do their job. Either they're acting correctly and have no problem putting that in writing or they're not acting correctly.

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The other thing you could do is to take it to a higher level within the Amt. Sorry I don't know what that would be. But all these Aemter have higher-ups. So that's the place to turn to next.

 

And if you don't have any success there, ultimately you could turn to the local regierende Buergermeister and ask for their friendly assistance in this urgent matter.

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I don't know that much about Persononenstandsrecht (and I don't have the time at the moment to look everything up), however, here is a little background of what I do know.

 

There are certain places in the world where it is possible to buy official documents such as birth and marriage certificates on the black market. Germany has a list of countries for which they will not automatically accept documents and the OP's country is on this list (whether or not the OP's country should be on this list or not is irrelevant); under German law the authorities don't need to accept any documents issued by countries on the blacklist until they have been verified (they can choose to accept them, but cannot be compelled to do so).

 

 

Would it be nuts to go to Denmark and "renew your vows" i.e. get married again? Or would you have the same issue with Danish auhorities not recognizing your birth certificates?

 

First of all, since they are already married they cannot get married again without first getting divorced.

 

Secondly, I think the OP should be careful not to antagonise the Standesamt since they are within their rights according to German law to require proof that the documents are authentic and the information correct before issuing a birth certificate (see PStV §35). The fastest solution involves their good will.

 

There was a thread (for those who can read German, see posts #10 and #11) on info4alien last month about birth certificates for children of refugee claimants who don't have proper identity papers. The consensus was that the Standesamt is required to register the birth and provide an extract, however, that they do not have to provide a birth certificate unless the Standesamt is satisfied with the identity documents of the parents.

 

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, and I really recommend that the OP posts this question on info4alien ASAP.

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Hi guys!

 

Sorry that I have not been able to update the case earlier. I just post this information up here for the future forum member.

 

What I did back then was to ask the people at the Auslaenderamt to personally contact the people at Standesamt to confirm that my certified marriage certificate is legally enough to provide a birth certificate for my daughter. An officer at the Standesamt reluctantly gave me the birth certificate, emphasizing that although he accepted it now, the other offices might question it when I want to claim Kindergeld, Elterngeld, etc. Case closed just on his personal feeling and opinion at that point.

 

Should he not accept the document at that point, we was ready to register the birth of my daughter as an unmarried couple, and then move on to sign a "50/50 custody of the child" document. LUCKILY, we did not have to go that way.

 

Thanks to all the contributors on this topic.

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