Health insurance for unemployed/returnees

263 posts in this topic

On 5/17/2017, 11:57:12, Cherf Monty said:

So, she should be good to rejoin upon her return to Germany, and as long as I arrive with no reportable income, I should be good to join as her dependent. Things are looking up!

For how long should you have no reportable income? 2 months before arriving? 6 months?

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what counts is to have no source of income when arriving and then for 28+ days. On the 29th day you are entitled to you join the spouse's public health insurance as a dependent family member. Then you'll theoretically only need to stay 1 day as dependent family member before you'll be allowed to continue public insurance in your own right as voluntary member in the wake of the "Obligatorische Anschlussversicherung", but I would recommend adding maybe another month if feasible/practical for you before you'll change your status formally, if only as a safety buffer.

 

Cheerio

 

I am a professional independent insurance broker, financial adviser, and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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On 21.2.2019, 11:27:35, Starshollow said:

what counts is to have no source of income when arriving and then for 28+ days. On the 29th day you are entitled to you join the spouse's public health insurance as a dependent family member. Then you'll theoretically only need to stay 1 day as dependent family member before you'll be allowed to continue public insurance in your own right as voluntary member in the wake of the "Obligatorische Anschlussversicherung", but I would recommend adding maybe another month if feasible/practical for you before you'll change your status formally, if only as a safety buffer.

 

Cheerio

 

I am a professional independent insurance broker, financial adviser, and authorised advertiser. Contact me.

Hi there! :) I have not been on this site for a while, but I am curious...what happens for example if an American citizen with no income comes to Germany, marries a German citizen a month later. Is that American citizen also entitled to be put on the German citizens health insurance?

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12 hours ago, germanyherewecome said:

Hi there! :) I have not been on this site for a while, but I am curious...what happens for example if an American citizen with no income comes to Germany, marries a German citizen a month later. Is that American citizen also entitled to be put on the German citizens health insurance?

 

for once a short answer is possible: YES :-)

(provided the German spouse is in public health insurance, of course )

Cheerio

 

I am a professional independent insurance broker, financial adviser, and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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Hello!

I have read through many posts on this forum on insurance for unemployed, and wanted to check whether I have found the best solution for my situation.

I moved to Germany in July 2018, and was working for a Dutch employer based in the Netherlands –  I did most of my work remotely, from my home office in Germany. Because I wasn’t traveling at least once a week between the Netherlands and Germany, I was an Unechte Grenzgänger (false cross-border worker). My contract ended at the end of 2018; from July to December 2018 I had a Dutch health insurance.

I am currently unemployed and, from the information in the brochure Merkblatt 20 „Arbeitslosengeld und Auslandsbeschäftigung, and from information from the Dutch authorities, I understood I have to apply for unemployment benefits in my country of residence, so Germany. I applied, but the first answer was negative, as I was deemed ineligible. The reason was that I hadn’t worked for at least one day for a German employer in a job paying social security contributions. I objected, as my understanding is that this requirement does not apply to cross-border workers, nor to false cross-border workers (see above-mentioned brochure, section 3.2.3). I am currently waiting for an answer to my objection.

This whole process is taking very long, and since my application has been initially declined, I realized I don’t have health insurance. I’m an EU citizen and had no problem obtaining an E104 form from my previous health insurer in the Netherlands. I read that getting a public health insurance is easy in the first 3 months, so I hurried to TK this week, as March is already the third month since my Dutch insurance ended. They accepted me as a voluntary contributor living off savings, and I’m waiting for the extra papers I need to sign to arrive per post.

It might be too late to ask this now, but is this the best solution in my case? After going to TK I heard about Mawista, but it seems quite fishy. I also saw this post from 2017 by @YogaMonkey, where he cites an older post from @Starshollow, referring to legit international insurers offering services in Germany: https://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/topic/374934-how-to-avoid-a-back-charge-for-health-insurance-in-germany-foreign-private-aok-tk-central-tips/?page=2#comment-3625987.

This post made me wonder whether there would have been (still is?) a cheaper, but still legit option for me (TK will charge approximately €180 per month). The link mentioning which international health insurers are licensed in Germany from the post above doesn’t work anymore (http://ww2.bafin.de/database/InstInfo/). FYI, I am applying for academic jobs both in Germany and abroad; I moved to Germany because my partner lives here (we’re not married), and I speak very little German.

Thanks in advance.

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23 minutes ago, Spaetzlein said:

After going to TK I heard about Mawista, but it seems quite fishy.

 

It is. And since you have EU citizenship, you're anyway not eligible for it.

 

13 minutes ago, Spaetzlein said:

I’m an EU citizen and had no problem obtaining an E104 form from my previous health insurer in the Netherlands. I read that getting a public health insurance is easy in the first 3 months, so I hurried to TK this week, as March is already the third month since my Dutch insurance ended. They accepted me as a voluntary contributor living off savings, and I’m waiting for the extra papers I need to sign to arrive per post.

 

It might be too late to ask this now, but is this the best solution in my case?

 

Yes, that is the best solution, short of marrying your partner and joining his/her public health insurance for free under family insurance:  https://www.tk.de/en/service-faqs/non-contributory-dependants-insurance/which-dependants-covered-non-contributory-dependants-insurance-2038050

 

14 minutes ago, Spaetzlein said:

he cites an older post from @Starshollow, referring to legit international insurers offering services in Germany

 

That was about ALC from the UK, but no idea whether that's still an option after Brexit, since they were exploiting a loophole for EU companies.

And they would anyway be no good to you since you want to be an employee again:  https://www.alchealth.com/germany_en.htm

You can see their pricing here:  https://www.alchealth.com/quote.htm

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Hello guys,

I'm a non-EU master student in Germany. 26 year-old.

At the moment, I have a public health insurance for students (around 90e/month) but I will be graduating soon and applying for job-seeking residence permit. To apply for this 18-month residence permit, I need to update my health insurance. So, I'll be no longer a student and I'll be unemployed.

The fees are going to jump ridiculously, right?

I heard the private insurance is cheaper in this case, but many people advise against this, as I wouldn't be able to go back to public insurance after finding a job. Is this correct?

Does anyone have any advice on what to do?

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1 hour ago, AnitaRoxas said:

Hello guys,

I'm a non-EU master student in Germany. 26 year-old.

At the moment, I have a public health insurance for students (around 90e/month) but I will be graduating soon and applying for job-seeking residence permit. To apply for this 18-month residence permit, I need to update my health insurance. So, I'll be no longer a student and I'll be unemployed.

The fees are going to jump ridiculously, right?

I heard the private insurance is cheaper in this case, but many people advise against this, as I wouldn't be able to go back to public insurance after finding a job. Is this correct?

Does anyone have any advice on what to do?

 

don't even think about private health insurance...

 

First of all: private health insurances in Germany are not interested in someone with an uncertain income situation. Hence they will not accept an application if they are "real" private health insurances under German laws.  All else is not a real health insurance and will lead to all kind of troubles (including back-charges later if you need to switch back to German public or private health insurances). Not recommendable!

Secondly: public health insurance will about double - but that's about it. So something around 170-180 EUR tops per month is all that you need to pay. It may look steep when coming from just 90 EUR p.m. but it is still an excellent bargain under all other considerations.  Even with just a side-job with minimum wage you'll just need to work like 7-8 hours per month for the time being to finance the increase in health insurance costs..and once you'll find a real employment, it will be calculated differently anyway. 

Little tip: if your VISA allows, look for a >451 EUR on the side right away, because then your health insurance costs are even lower because the employer pitches in, too.

 

Cheerio

 

I am a professional independent insurance broker, financial adviser, and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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55 minutes ago, Starshollow said:

 

Secondly: public health insurance will about double - but that's about it. So something around 170-180 EUR tops per month is all that you need to pay.

 

Cheerio


Thanks a lot for your answer, Cheerio! Really appreciated. I just contacted my insurance (Novitas BKK), and they told me the fee is 193.5 euro. Is this the price always the same in all other public insurances? 

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The Krankenkassen only differ in regard of the Zusatzbeitrag: https://www.krankenkassen.de/gesetzliche-krankenkassen/krankenkasse-beitrag/zusatzbeitrag/

 

Your health&nursing insurance contribution is:

  • (14% + Zusatzbeitrag + 3.05% +  0.25% if you don't have a child and are age 23 or older) * 30 * Bezugsgröße/90 

 

For example, if you change to HKK (and are older than 23 with no child), you would pay every month:

  • (14% + 0.39% + 3.05% + 0.25%) * 1,038.33€ = 17.69% * 1,038.33€ = 183.68€

 

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Hello everyone! Could someone experienced please help me understand the following situation regarding my health insurance? 

I'm a non-EU citizen currently living in Germany and I have an 18-month residence permit that allows me to look for jobs (obtained after studying in Germany). I'm planning to leave Germany for 4-5 months and then come back (I am allowed to leave Germany for a period of max 6 months without losing my permit). Before leaving Germany, I will do Abmeldung, and I would like to cancel my public health insurance since I won't be in Germany for several months. Once I re-enter Germany I will do Anmeldung again and start my public health insurance again.   

Now my question is: if, for example, I get a job offer while I am out of Germany and I have to come to Germany for an interview for 2-3 days, how should I be insured? I am wondering if border police could create a problem for me since I'll have a permit, but no more German health insurance. Is it a problem to enter the country with normal travel insurance? I'm assuming it wouldn't be a problem since I don't even have a right to public health insurance if I have no Anmeldung, right? According to the lady from Ausländerbehörde, I am absolutely allowed to do Abmeldung if I am out of the country, but when it comes to my health insurance questions, she said "yeah, you should be able to cancel your insurance too but better check with them all the conditions." 

Any advice is welcome! Naturally, I'll contact my insurance, but I'd love to hear your answers before that! Thank you!
 

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Hi everyone!

 

I've recently moved to Germany and I'm looking for a job here.
Right after my registration as a resident, I tried to apply for public health insurance only to find I'm not eligible for it (I'm an EU citizen and I had no health insurance in my home country).
The problem is that I'm also having trouble applying for a private health insurance, even though I can afford it... Most companies reject me because I'm unemployed.
It's been one month now, and I'm afraid I won't be able to avoid any back-charges. Would getting an international or travel insurance instead be a good idea? And switch to public health insurance as soon as I find a job? If so, what are some good options?

Thanks in advance!

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31 minutes ago, drakosike said:

Right after my registration as a resident, I tried to apply for public health insurance only to find I'm not eligible for it (I'm an EU citizen and I had no health insurance in my home country).

 

FWIW British citizens relocating to Germany can ask their former UK GP for a letter stating that they were previously covered by the NHS, which can help when seeking public health insurance in Germany. 

 

I was accepted by the TK on that basis, here's a basic template.

 

************


This letter is to confirm that Mr Fred Bloggs was registered as an NHS patient (National Health Service number:123456789) at the XYZ Health Centre, Newtown from November 2010 till his departure for Germany on May 31st 2019.


 

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11 minutes ago, john_b said:

 

FWIW British citizens relocating to Germany can ask their former UK GP for a letter stating that they were previously covered by the NHS, which can help when seeking public health insurance in Germany. 

 

 

Thank you for your quick reply!
The thing is, I'm not a British citizen and wasn't previously covered by any state or private health insurance company in my home country, so from TK and AOK it's a no :( 

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9 hours ago, drakosike said:

Hi everyone!

 

I've recently moved to Germany and I'm looking for a job here.
Right after my registration as a resident, I tried to apply for public health insurance only to find I'm not eligible for it (I'm an EU citizen and I had no health insurance in my home country).
The problem is that I'm also having trouble applying for a private health insurance, even though I can afford it... Most companies reject me because I'm unemployed.
It's been one month now, and I'm afraid I won't be able to avoid any back-charges. Would getting an international or travel insurance instead be a good idea? And switch to public health insurance as soon as I find a job? If so, what are some good options?

Thanks in advance!

A BaFin-recognized  international insurance is your best bet to get you started as you qualify for neither public insurance (no insurance held  in Greece) nor private German insurance: unemployed.

If you then get a job, no problems to switch to German insurance and no backpayments.

 

(BaFin are the official watchdogs for financial/insurance services offered in Germany )

I am a professional independent insurance broker and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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On 2/21/2019, 11:27:35, Starshollow said:

what counts is to have no source of income when arriving and then for 28+ days. On the 29th day you are entitled to you join the spouse's public health insurance as a dependent family member. Then you'll theoretically only need to stay 1 day as dependent family member before you'll be allowed to continue public insurance in your own right as voluntary member in the wake of the "Obligatorische Anschlussversicherung", but I would recommend adding maybe another month if feasible/practical for you before you'll change your status formally, if only as a safety buffer.

 

Cheerio

 

I am a professional independent insurance broker, financial adviser, and authorised advertiser. Contact me.

I arrived on 6/4/2019 and have not yet registered. I see that on 6/14 my previous employer deposited $77.57 in my account that is income earned for services performed prior to my arrival in Germany on 6/4.

 

Question #1: is the 28+ day waiting period effective from arrival on 6/4 or from when I register (I plan to do so this week).

 

Question #2: will the $77.57 cause a problem?  If so, then I will have to leave and come back?

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On 7/1/2018, 2:58:21, engelchen said:

 

Which means he is now a foreigner.

 

 

I don't think he is eligible for public health insurance. 

 

 

 

https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/sgb_5/__5.html

Well, here we are one year later.  And he got back in on public health insurance. The rules are complicated.  Turns out that being a former German citizen was worth A LOT.  It helped him get a visa for more than a year, and that was initially using insurance for a short term stay.  

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Well, it's been a while since I got involved in this thread! So it's time for an update, and for a further request for suggestions and help if possible!

 

Myself (62, Aus pension, Aus and UK national), wife (67, German and Aus pensioner, German and Aus national) and disabled adult son (German, Aus and UK national) want to live in Germany for our son's long-term care.

 

We found out I couldn't get public health insurance in Germany, so we moved to Austria - once in the public health system here for 12 months, we can move to Germany and transfer to public health insurance there.

 

We thought it might be hard to get public health insurance here in Austria, and they did want us to be permanent residents, and we couldn't get that approved without health insurance! So we got private insurance which was enough to get the permanent residence permits for all of us. Then we applied for public health cover here in Austria. My son and I have to pay for 6 months until the Austrian public health cover kicks in, but we have been accepted and paying for about 3 months so far. We've checked with some German public funds and they say yes, my son and I can transfer to them if we move to Germany then, once we have at least 12 months public health membership here in Austria.

 

The problem is with my wife. She is German and gets a small German pension of about 200E a month and about $700 a month Age Pension from Australia. 

 

The Austrian public health system says since my wife has a German Pension, Germany should insure her, so Austria can't.

 

We've tried applying with AOK, KKH and TK and they all effectively say the same thing. No, because she has not been insured in Germany within the last 5 years and/or elsewhere in the EU. Also because she doesn't live in Germany.

 

We've also spoken with the official Deutsche Rentenversicherung people since they handle the pensions and entitlements - they have said they have no control over this, it's up to the Krankenkasse's to decide. 

 

I'm aware of the basistarif, but when speaking to the TK, I said it can't be right that my wife might have to pay 800E a month for that, when her total income is less than that!

They suggested that perhaps some kind of Sozialamt subsidy might come into play. I think any ordinary pensions zuschuss would be very small as her German pension is so low. 

The person at TK also said that when we do return to Germany, if my wife has income of less than 450E, then she could be added to my public health cover then, as a dependent. My income is only about 2200E a month Australian Govt employment pension until I get an Age Pension in 4 years time, son gets about 1000E a month disability pension from Australia

 

So at the moment, (and I could be wrong of course), my thoughts of what to do next are to double-check whether we can get my wife into the German Public system - whether some clause overrides the reasons they are refusing her - but given that 3 krankenkasses have said no, I'm not very hopeful of that. 

 

Next, whether she can get into the German private system and at what cost - her income is only about 630E a month (and we could actually cancel either the German or Australian pension she gets if need to reduce her income - for example, later, when we move to Germany so she could be added as a dependent on the public German health insurance that I should be able to get then). 

 

I'd be happy to pay a broker, berator or makler for advice. 

 

It may be that the Austrian public system would accept my wife now, as we have clear written refusals from 3 krankenkassen. If so, I'd hope they would just add her to mine as a dependent. They waived the requirement for past membership of a public fund for me and my son, as we came from Australia, but instead required that we both serve a paid 6 month waiting period, which is fine.

 

But before I ask the Austrian health system, I'd like to find out whether we can get my wife into the German public or private health system, as I suspect the Austrian health people might just ask this - the krankenkasse refusal letters may or may not be enough for them to allow her to join, and so I want to explore what options she has regarding Germany first. and whether she'd need to pay the full basis-tarif, or how the system deals with this. I can't believe that a German national returning to Germany could pay more for health cover than their income, but I do know that they have to have health insurance...

 

I suppose the other option would be to move to somewhere where she could get cover if she can't get appropriate cover in Germany or Austria, maybe to the UK (even after Brexit I think our income and savings would be ok for her to go there) or to Cyprus or France - again these would only be as temporary measures to get into the existing public health insurance in one of those countries before transferring to Germany after a year or so.  

 

Any suggestions, opinions, help or referrals most gratefully accepted. :)

 

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22 minutes ago, kaju said:

Any suggestions, opinions, help or referrals most gratefully accepted. :)

 

Hi kaju - I have PMed you.  Good luck navigating the minefield.  I suspect it will all work out.  🤞

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4 minutes ago, BethAnnBitt said:

Hi kaju - I have PMed you.  Good luck navigating the minefield.  I suspect it will all work out.  🤞

Thanks very much!

 

Also, should add to my post that it may be possible for my wife to register as resident in Germany if she needed to, to be accepted into the German system - her brother and sister live there - after that she could de-register and come back to Austria for another year, till we can all leave together.

 

While we are paying private health insurance (which we needed to get the Austrian residence permits), we have those now. We're paying the Austrian public insurance too for my son and I, but it's quite cheap - and the private cover we have is quite expensive! In about 3 months my son and I will be active members of the Austrian public health system, and be able to cancel the private insurance. My son has his Austrian disability assessment in early March - he's 23 but extremely disabled, so I think once that goes through, he'll be added to my cover as my dependent for free.

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