Health insurance for unemployed/returnees

266 posts in this topic

We know what we are getting now.    But in 10 or 20 years' time, who knows?  Especially in nations (which definitely include Germany near the top) dealing with an ageing populace.   The public system might likely be completely different (and more expensive), the private route might have gone all together (so the wealthier can no longer avoid funding the poorer, while also getting preferential treatment often).   

 

Read the recent threads by the newly arrived gent struggling to get some fairly basic eye treatment - not asking for the world, just support for a typical inexpensive condition of ageing.  That reminded us of another increasing reality.  Sure, have public insurance because it's theoretically "cheaper" (or even free to EU retirees).   Then expect medics in your area  to say "sorry, private insurance only", thereby making it of little value at all. 

 

My rich city today has reports of the most normal doctor for the publically insured (Hausarzt) not being replaced when they retire.  I had them for 10 years.   New arrivals may not.  Young people don't want to do it and, even if they did, "only private patients kept them solvent".    False presumptions about the future based on the past, are a risk to retirees. 

 

It is very easy when drawn to supportive welfare to forget everyone else is playing the same game.   Everyone wants to feather their nest, not just us and our family.  No different from the parents complaining they cannot get "free" childcare, or students atttracted to free Unis complaining about overcrowded classes.   Well surprise.   Huge numbers are competing for what we want.

 

My home nation (UK) has universal free at point of use healthcare, covered by general taxation.   I can retire back there and get it totally "free".   Yet the headlines there this morning are of the Auditor General warning that plans for its funding are not sufficient and highlighting the difficulty Japan (another nation much like Germany in demography) is having providing for its older people.  I also posted here earlier today about how my presumptions about my healthcare here have suddenly changed, because of how the UK may not fund me after Brexit.   A political change caused that.

 

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Yes. These are excellent points to consider and may mean that we may as well just head straight to the private. ?‍♀️ One broker has recommended Cigna and we are perusing their info. What’s scary is trusting what’s the best company to go with. 

 

And, we have the same problems in the US with an aging populace and doctors cutting back on seeing patients on Medicare. For one thing it’s a bureaucratic nightmare. I am a speech therapist working in a nursing home and I know firsthand the pitfalls here. We are very healthy and hoping to remain so, but one can have an accident or get cancer or ... and then insurance is a necessity and not a luxury. The US has much to learn from a country such as Germany that has done a good job managing a complex set of issues. 

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There's been one of those "most livable city" surveys today.  Munich is at the top, other German cities flying high.

 

Why is Munich number one?   Yes, inevitably in 2018:  "excellent infrastructure with a booming economy".

 

The whole world is on to this as what we need to live best now, and that Germany is where we are most likely to get it.

 

https://www.dw.com/en/munich-tops-list-of-worlds-most-livable-cities-berlin-and-hamburg-also-in-top-10/a-44478511

 

I am also increasingly of a view that anyone worried about a couple of grand a year can't actually afford to emigrate.   (Same thing applies to Britons who think not getting a pension uprating decides that, it doesn't).   The days of later life migration on peanuts are gone, because there's so many of us competing for the best places and resources.   The settings that we move to increasingly require us to think bigger than that, especially wealthy western ones. 

 

 

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15 hours ago, Starshollow said:

The relevant law, SGB V , is very, very complex and in parts also very contradictory. While in my professional opinion, too, the OP has not certain legal claim to get admitted back to AOK, I would not universally deny that they might be one or the other exception in this law ... which a true expert might be able to find.

Hence I think your best option is to get a qualified Versicherungsberater or lawyer with specialization in this field on board. You'll have to pay for that, of course, but only such an expert will find you a solution if there ever is one.

Can you recommend anyone?   We don't mind paying for someone who is qualified.

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15 hours ago, engelchen said:

 

Although it is true that certain countries such as Canada do not provide special privileges to former citizens, countries such as India and Germany do. Under §38 AufenthG it is possible for former German citizens to come back to Germany if they speak a little German and have sufficient funds (including health insurance).

It is possible for my husband under (1) 2 (he and his parents did not emigrate from Germany until he was almost 6, but he gave up the citizenship at 27).  ?. And he fullfills (2) (his German is native fluency level).

 

While this is wonderful the health insurance still gets in the mix. He's "entitled" to the temporary residency it appears, but he stills needs insurance. This is interesting because if one is "entitled" then what's the presumed way to get insured (same as for a current German citizen, or not?) So if stepping back into AOK is off the table then he must seek the best private insurance option. 

 

This is why I think it may be time to just hire an expert to wade through this swamp.

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On 7/2/2018, 2:03:40, engelchen said:

 

What are you talking about!!?!?!?!? :blink:

 

Neither the poster nor her husband seem to have had public health insurance for over 24 months in the past 5 years.

It is definitely possible for a non-EU citizen to return (not initially join) the GKV even after 30 years, even over aged 55, even without having had GKV for 24 months out of the past 5 years. If one had GKV in Germany earlier, and one left Germany, and one wishes to return, it is possible. ☺️  But to be assured and do it cleanly, it is wisest, as Patrick suggested, to go through the services of a Versicherungsberater or Immigration Attorney.

 

Our highly unusual case (in multiple respects) is made simpler by the fact that my husband is a "Former German" (although it could still be done without such status). "Former German" status simply makes the granting of the 12+ month residence permit smoother, as it legally entitles one to residency. The Berater/Attorney can work with the specific ABA to "guarantee" insurability while the ABA can "guarantee" eligibility criteria for a 12+ month residence permit. This would also allow one to get into the private German insurance market, and Basis tariff, if necessary. 

 

It has been done for others. And it is in process for us. ?

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19 minutes ago, BethAnnBitt said:

It is definitely possible for a non-EU citizen to return (not initially join) the GKV even after 30 years, even over aged 55, even without having had GKV for 24 months out of the past 5 years. If one had GKV in Germany earlier, and one left Germany, and one wishes to return, it is possible. ☺️  But to be assured and do it cleanly, it is wisest, as Patrick suggested, to go through the services of a Versicherungsberater or Immigration Attorney.

 

Our highly unusual case (in multiple respects) is made simpler by the fact that my husband is a "Former German" (although it could still be done without such status). "Former German" status simply makes the granting of the 12+ month residence permit smoother, as it legally entitles one to residency. The Berater/Attorney can work with the specific ABA to "guarantee" insurability while the ABA can "guarantee" eligibility criteria for a 12+ month residence permit. This would also allow one to get into the private German insurance market, and Basis tariff, if necessary. 

 

It has been done for others. And it is in process for us. ?

Very good news, Beth, and , hopefully, a victory for positive stubbornness!!!:)

You know, people such as Starshollow and myself have to deal with the complications of the system on a daily basis and also sometimes have to put up with abuse! " What do you mean I can´t have insurance for the price I want and I don´t want to pay anyway and I don´t believe you when you say the system is complicated..it´s not where I´m from !° " etc etc

 

:lol:

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Thank you to John as well as Patrick for steering me toward the route of getting legal assistance. In a case like this it’s definitely worth it. ?

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On 5/4/2017, 10:22:44, Starshollow said:

 

Wow, for once someone did his homework and has already gathered most of the imminent information - my hat is off to you (and I am not joking here!) !!!!

 

Yes, you are pursuing the exact right course of action here, to arrive in Germany without current income. Because your wife in her own right can rejoin public health insurance either based on her prior/last membership or by employment in Germany. And you - who otherwise with the age of 55+ would not have a chance to do so in your own right - can join her membership as a dependent family member. And you'll only need to be dependent off your wife in a legal sense for a short while (actually just a few days, but a month or two would be better IMO) and then you can continue your membership in your own right due to the "obligatorische Anschlussversicherung".

Regarding the costs I am not totally sure myself, it would depend on what part of your pension will count for premium setting in Germany. There are some rather complex bilateral social welfare agreements between Germany and USA.  But if you are willing to spend some money on this I could refer you to a specialized "VERsicherungsberater" (Insurance consultant) who can certainly check this, calculate it and give you the information (which might come in handy as I would not bet the farm on the AOK getting it right from the beginning and without getting a professional like the Versicherungsberater involved on your side).

Cheerio

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On 5/4/2017, 8:10:46, Cherf Monty said:

I have been going through this thread, picking through the information that applies to my situation, but thought it might be best to lay it all out to get specific answers. I am a US citizen married to a German citizen. We are planning a move to Germany.  She lived in Germany up to age 21 and is now 53. I am 55. She had public insurance 30+ years ago, we believe through AOK

My plan is to retire. I've work for 30 years for local government and will receive a gov. pension of approx. $50K per year. Wife initially plans to work and retire at a later date. She currently works for IKEA and plans to do the same upon arrival in Germany. Once I leave my job, I can defer my pension and essentially arrive to Germany with no income while living off of savings.

 

First, does anyone see any flaws in this plan, or have any advise to make it work?

 

Is deferring my pension until I can get on to public insurance through my wife the best plan?

 

Once I start taking my pension, what will the impact be on the cost of the insurance?

 

Thanks in advanced for your help

Monty

So I dug up this old post with an update and a question.

So after a years delay and my wife obtaining dual citizenship, she has moved to Germany and is currently job seeking and living off of savings whilst living with family. I am still living in the US.

After registering and opening a bank account she went to AOK to arrange health insurance.

After originally quoting her costs of approx. 170 Euro per month, they are now asking for income information from my job in the US and it seems they want to base her payments on my income. As I stated, I still reside and work in the US. I am not contributing to her support while she is in Germany.

 

Is this normal?

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Yes, your wife will be put in the "Hausfrauentarif", i.e. half your income will be allocated to her and her contribution will be based on this half of your family income.

You can look up such cases here: https://www.google.com/search?q=Hausfrauentarif+site%3Atoytowngermany.com

 

The only exception would be if you had separated, but then her contribution would be based on the Trennungsunterhalt (= alimony a separated spouse gets), which still would be 3/7 of your income.

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On 5/4/2017, 10:22:44, Starshollow said:

 

 

On 5/4/2017, 8:10:46, Cherf Monty said:
31 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

I'm curious. What was she paying for health insurance in the U.S. which doesn't cover everything?

 

Nothing, it was covered by her employer

\

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47 minutes ago, Cherf Monty said:

So I dug up this old post with an update and a question.

So after a years delay and my wife obtaining dual citizenship, she has moved to Germany and is currently job seeking and living off of savings whilst living with family. I am still living in the US.

After registering and opening a bank account she went to AOK to arrange health insurance.

After originally quoting her costs of approx. 170 Euro per month, they are now asking for income information from my job in the US and it seems they want to base her payments on my income. As I stated, I still reside and work in the US. I am not contributing to her support while she is in Germany.

 

Is this normal?

Experts will comment, but my experience- both in a marriage will have income assessed.

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34 minutes ago, RedMidge said:

 

 

1 hour ago, fraufruit said:

I'm curious. What was she paying for health insurance in the U.S. which doesn't cover everything?

I pay $750 a month.

 

And if anyone remembers, we were/are moving to Germany. My husband, age 67, naturalized in the US at age 27. He is now in our new rental in Germany as of 2/1, has handed necessary paperwork in for residency, and was told to expect his permit any day now. He was also told that in a year he can have his German citizenship back and be dual.

 

We are stepping back into AOK as 55+ because they insured us from 1986-88. 

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54 minutes ago, Cherf Monty said:

Nothing, it was covered by her employer

 

So no out of pocket costs for doctor visits, etc.  Good deal.

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5 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

 

So no out of pocket costs for doctor visits, etc.  Good deal.

$20 per visit, no deductible. I'm not sure what the point of this is

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37 minutes ago, BethAnnBitt said:

 

I pay $750 a month.

 

And if anyone remembers, we were/are moving to Germany. My husband, age 67, naturalized in the US at age 27. He is now in our new rental in Germany as of 2/1, has handed necessary paperwork in for residency, and was told to expect his permit any day now. He was also told that in a year he can have his German citizenship back and be dual.

 

We are stepping back into AOK as 55+ because they insured us from 1986-88. 

Good luck with your new life!

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On 2/7/2019, 2:09:38, fraufruit said:

I'm sorry. No point whatsoever and what Midge said.

 

If she is in Munich, maybe we can meet up some time.

 

Currently living in Weissenburg with her brother's family. She also has family in Berchtesgaden where she grew up and where we hope to end up

 

 

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