Repairing your own car

[23Dan 662]

 

So you have a difference of 20.9 cm in diameter.

 

Soooooooooo close ;)

[Allershausen 6,414]

I didn't think the 0,07cm was relevant. :rolleyes:

[23Dan 662]

So you're standing by a 20.9 cm difference?

 

Incidentally (and marginally more on topic) My winter and summer tyres are different sizes (at least, on the rear axle) but the difference in diameter is only 0.5mm. 2cm sounds like a lot.

[Allershausen 6,414]

Whoops no, that would be somewhat too much! That's what I get by trying to do maths and my job at the same time!

[Allershausen 6,414]

 

So you're standing by a 20.9 cm difference?

 

Incidentally (and marginally more on topic) My winter and summer tyres are different sizes (at least, on the rear axle) but the difference in diameter is only 0.5mm. 2cm sounds like a lot.

 

You have different tyre sizes front to rear? Is this something like a Porsche or is it a more mundane vehicle. I'm just curious, not doubting you.

[23Dan 662]

It's a sports car, but not quite in Porsche's league. It's also a pain the arse at times - particulary the time when some (main dealer) muppet managed to mount both rears for the right side and both fronts for the left...

[kaffeemitmilch 1,294]

Haha. Did you feel the difference from .5 mm?

 

Shit, this is complicated, ESPECIALLY because I don't have the car with me, and my girlfriend's sensitive about being told what's right and what isn't in HER country.

 

I read somewhere that you can print something out showing the wheels and tires (which AREN'T on the official papers) are allowed for this car, and carry this with you in case the cops get fidgety. True?

 

Germany is scaring me.

[kaffeemitmilch 1,294]

Haha. Did you feel the difference from .5 mm?

 

Shit, this is complicated, ESPECIALLY because I don't have the car with me, and my girlfriend's sensitive about being told what's right and what isn't in HER country.

 

I read somewhere that you can print something out showing the wheels and tires (which AREN'T on the official papers) are allowed for this car, and carry this with you in case the cops get fidgety. True?

 

Germany is scaring me.

[kaffeemitmilch 1,294]

Haha. Did you feel the difference from .5 mm?

 

Shit, this is complicated, ESPECIALLY because I don't have the car with me, and my girlfriend's sensitive about being told what's right and what isn't in HER country.

 

I read somewhere that you can print something out showing the wheels and tires (which AREN'T on the official papers) are allowed for this car, and carry this with you in case the cops get fidgety. True?

 

Germany is scaring me.

[Allershausen 6,414]

It's obviously making your fingers jittery! Just go to a tyre dealer to confirm which tyres you need. They have a book with all the specs in. You're making a mountain out of a molehill over this. It's worth shopping around anyway, the price difference from one dealer to another can be pretty big. Don't forget to ask for the complete price, some of them have a nasty habit of quoting a price that doesn't include balancing, valves or fitting. The online shops aren't necessarily the cheapest.

[YorkshireLad6 7,152]

Legally, you can only go with what is actually printed in the Fahrzeugschein. While the manufacturer may allow (or even recommend) alternative sizes then they are not allowed unless specifically indicated in the car paperwork. You can get alternatives added to the paperwork but it's a hassle, and to use tyres that are not "authorized" could invalidate your insurance.

 

One of my cars was imported new from Italy and had to be registered into the German system. It turns out there are some slight differences to this car when sold in Italy as when sold in Germany including (narrower) tyres. Sites like Reifendirekt and most dealers suggest wider tyres for this model, as would be the case where it originally supplied new in Germany, and while I am sure they would work, they are simply not allowed as they are not shown in the Fahrzeugschein.

[sosarx 1,661]

Was once true, YL6, but isn't anymore.

 

New car papers only show 1 size of wheels, while there are (mostly) many more variations possible.

 

These other possible variations are to be found in the CoC , a cerificate you can get at your dealer . For my car, Mercedes, I can find the complete list in the web. Makes sense to print out and carry the list along in the car if the dimensons of your wheeels look a bit odd/unusual.

 

Edit: Just checked, there are roughly 10 different tyre/rim combinations on the list for my car (while only 1 is in the car papers)

[AKJeeper 30]

Wow. The things you learn on this forum. I drove into Germany from Switzerland in a 1981 Mercedes 280SE (gf's car from her late father) a couple years ago. I was a auto tech/heavy equipment mechanic in a former career...and knowing how rare/special an older car is in Europe - I kept an eagle eye on the mechanicals of the car over the course of our road trip. I didn't realize it was illegal to pop the hood of a vehicle parked on the side of the road. I popped the hood on the old Mercedes at the start of every day just to ensure that the fluids were up and things under the hood looked good. Come to think about it, I got some really bad looks in a few places when I did this.

 

Speaking of tires - I've got a 2004 MINI Cooper S. I have two sets, a winter set (15" on aftermarket wheels) and a summer set (OEM 17" wheels/tires). My winter tires are approximately 1mm larger in diameter than the stock (summer) tires and about 20mm narrower. The narrower tires work great in the winter and offer more cushion on bumpy road surfaces. The 15" wheels I've got just barely clear the brake calipers. I suspect this tire/wheel combo would be illegal in Germany (tire/wheel size only a factory offering on the non-S Coopers) but I guess my point here is that a slight difference in tire diameter shouldn't cause any detrimental effects so long as you run a matched set on the car.

[kaffeemitmilch 1,294]

sosarx, is there ANY way you can point me towards an online German list of allowed combinations for a 1999 VW Lupo 1.4 55KW?

[sosarx 1,661]

Cannot find one for Volkswagen.

 

Best would be to see a Volkswagen dealer and ask for details. It seems that Volkswagen delivers a first CoC( Confirmation of Conformity) for free , for another copy they charge € 50.-

 

So see a dealer, ask if there has been a CoC for your car been handed out in the past, if not, ask for your free copy. Or just simply ask them to note down the wheel combination which are possible for your model.

[auniquecorn 2,083]

 

The Lupo has 185/55R14 tyres, but reifendirekt.de shows that 175/65R13 also works for this car. Please tell me it isn't as bad as this.

 

30 posts later and your still not convinced?

 

Come on guy, a 99 lupo at that.

[kaffeemitmilch 1,294]

Hehe. Well, I think I'm going for the 185/55 14s that are already on the car. I don't want to bother with the extra paperwork.

 

FYI, I'm getting these:

 

4 x Stahlfelgen mit Winterreifen (LK 4 x 100.00 x 57.00)

Falken-Ohtsu HS-439 M+S Kennung BSW 185/55 R14 80T

VW LUPO 1.4 6X 1390ccm 55 kW 09.1998-06.1999

 

One last Q. What are these?

 

zu 2 bzw. 2.1:

 

zu 3 bzw. 2.2:

 

I appreciate all the help, guys (is it wrong to assume we're all guys on this thread?).

[23Dan 662]

They're codes from the car's documentation for the maker and type respectively - "zu 2" & "zu 3" refer to the older format, "2.1" & "2.2" to the new one. Where to find them.

[kaffeemitmilch 1,294]

Ah, thanks. Done, and done!

[2B_orNot2B 8,451]

Here's a link to the only official VW source of info I could find for a 1999 VW Lupo 1.4 55KW http://www.volkswage...delle-1949-1999

 

Der Polo III startet 1994 als Typ 6N und wird von 1999 bis 2001 6N2 genannt.

 

Typ: 1.4 16V

Hubraum (cm³): 1.390 Leistung (kW / PS - bei min^-1): 74 / 100 / 6.00 55 / 75 / 5.000 (ab 1999)

max. Drehmoment (Nm - bei min^-1): 128 / 4.400 126 / 3.800 (ab 1999)

 

The only info on tyre sizes I could find from the VW webpages was in the back of an original Prospekt (Sales brochure) which is available to view only as a Flash macromedia so can't be downloaded. I did take 2 screen shots to get both page to include row titles, although your's was the one on the right. Before I could crop the picture of the right page my screen shot application closed. Then I found I haven't got the right Irfan plug-in to crop (non-Irfan screenshots) to fit Toytown's uploader. grrr! Anyway VW didn't list any 14" tires at all and your model had the same 175/65 R13 as standard though VW only offer summer tyres on new cars anyway.

 

 

14" wheels and tyres could be allowed, as aftermarket options, but only IF the operator has a copy of the ABE (Allgemeine Betriebs Erlaubnis) = Type Approval showing they have been approved for that type and model car by the TÜV, (in Hessen TÜH) DEKRA, GTÜ or similar.

 

I would not continue using, (or purchase new), 14" size wheels and tyres unless you do have (or get) either the ABE for the wheels and tyre size or they are listed on your registration as approved alternates (the old style 21 + 22 showed 2 tyre sizes with 22* to notes by number below listing any further alternatives (eg. *Zu 22 Reifen Grosse X nur mit Alu Rad Grosse XX).

 

There are 2 potential pitfalls if you don't have this evidence on board the car: 1: A police check could result in points on the drivers license and a heavy fine. 2: In the event of an accident your insurer could (most likely would) refuse cover, (resulting in heavier fines and more points), which could be unbelievably expensive if other cars or people are damaged. I'm not intending to scare you, but am being quite serious. Having the correct paperwork is as important as the technical safety aspect in Germany.

 

HTH

 

2B