Changing mind about a job before starting

41 posts in this topic

Purely verbal work contracts are perfectly valid in Germany. In such cases the employer needs to issue the employee with a written rundown of contract clauses pertaining a certain list of things (vacation days, pay structure etc) within one month.

 

If there is a written contract to be signed though then mere verbal agreement doesn't become valid.

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Update: I accepted the first offer. I had a telephone interview with the internal recruiter for the second job. The turn around time would have been atleast 3 weeks. I obviously couldn't stall on the first offer for that long, so I didn't really pursue it any further.

 

Regarding validity of verbal contracts, a german friend of mine found this on the internet:

 

http://www.frag-einen-anwalt.de/Arbeitsvertrag-muendlichemail-Annahme-zugesagt,-ist-das-verbindlich-__f68925.html

 

If I understood the text correctly, verbal contracts are indeed valid in Germany under certain circumstances. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

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[adminmerge][/adminmerge]

Hello all,

 

I am very new to the german law so need some good advise hopefully I would get. It. I recently accepted a new job wih 2 years contract. The problem is due to some unavoidable circumstances it seems I am not able to join this company. However I have also applied to my local Rathaus for my extension of visa for this company

 

My question are

1. Can I cancel my contract now as there is stil around 2.5 months left for the joining. If yes what can be the consequence?

2. Are there any problems in future with Rathaus on applying the job for another company.

 

I am not sure how to proceed with this on the other hand currently the circumstances seems that I cannot join the new company.

 

Expert advice would definitely help me on how to proceed further

 

Thanks and regards

Ardasmeet

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If you want expert advice go to a lawyer.

 

If you want some information about visas you can probably find the answers by using the Search function (top right of your monitor).

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1. Can I cancel my contract now as there is stil around 2.5 months left for the joining. If yes what can be the consequence?

 

No.

 

Normally you can give two weeks notice from the day you start, but if you've signed a fixed two year contract you may not be able to cancel at all. What does the contract say?

 

You can always call them, explain your circumstances and throw yourself at their mercy, but expect them to be pissed. Worst case, they sue you for damages.

 

 

2. Are there any problems in future with Rathaus on applying the job for another company.

 

Does it sound believable to you that you can't under any circumstances join this company, but are free to join another?

If your Visa is linked to this employer, you are probably screwed but check the search function. How on earth you expect to explain to a potential employer that you've already signed and reneged on one contract and now want another escapes me.

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Hello ,

 

Many thanks for the reply.

 

1. My contract says, any party can give a notice period of 1 month regardless the duration of the contract. Also there is a probzeit period of 6 months.

 

2. I had actually not applied for my visa sorry for the confusion, I had visited my landratsamt and they have I guess sent my approval to the job center.

 

Regs

Meet

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I don't know German law or employment practices. However, because life doesn't always happen the way we want it to, I, personally, would make sure that the other headhunter actually has a job that will be offered. It would not be fun to quit one job to start another. Then tell the other job you changed your mind and find out that a third job is not really being offered. Then you are without any job and there are two employers that may not ever offer you a job again.

 

I think it is clear that an offer is accepted verbally subject to the contract. You cant go through every term on the phone. If this wasnt the case, why would they bother sending paper copies to be signed.

 

If you want to stall them, be picky re the contract. There are bound to be references to other standard terms (workers agreements etc). Suggest just asking reasonable questions to clarify the contract in order to stall them.

 

Similarly, stating in an email that you have accepted is nonesense, and they know this. Emails are not binding in any way.

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1. My contract says, any party can give a notice period of 1 month regardless the duration of the contract. Also there is a probzeit period of 6 months.

 

That's ok then (sort of). You turn up on your first day with your resignation letter and you can be out in two weeks.

 

 

2. I had actually not applied for my visa sorry for the confusion, I had visited my landratsamt and they have I guess sent my approval to the job center.

 

Que? What now. Do you not want to start because of some weird private situation, or CAN you not start because you don't have a visa? If the latter, you can also, of course, call and and say " sorry, visas been ballsed up, I'm going to have to start a month later". You might find they then can you, but they might be ok with that.

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My present employment ends by the end of this month. three weeks ago I signed another contract for next 2 years starting from April 2015. Now I have another job opportunity. Is it possible to quit the contract that I signed (which is supposed to start from April 2015) and walk away?

 

[adminmerge][/adminmerge]

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What does the contract say? Does it cover that eventuality. Regardless of what the notice period is, I'd think that if you give your notice now they'll want out of the contract themselves anyway.

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Hi :-)

 

I know this is an old post but I am currently living a similar situation and wanted to hear your advice.

 

I have quit my current job and got a new offer (which I have accepted and signed). My start date is in September.

 

My current company had a change of heart and offered me a new position (with significantly more money among other nice perks) so I have decided to accept their offer.

 

It would not be a problem for me to take two weeks holidays and work for this time at the new company (I would hand-in my resignation on the first day) but my real concern is that the new company could contact the old company for whatever reason - I know this is not legal in Germany but many things that are not legal here are still done under the table.

I would not want my old company to find out about all this, since my job would be in jeopardy.

 

Do I have a reason to be concerned or should I just go ahead, work for two weeks, resign and continue as if nothing ever happened?

 

Thank you!

 

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If you don't want to accept the offer anymore, call the new company and tell them. They may be unhappy, but they will accept the decision and move on, and probably appreciate your candour. In that case there is no reason they would contact your old company. The fact that you have signed the offer might look bad, but they can't actually hold you to it in any way.

 

On the other hand, if you start for 2 weeks and resign on day 1, they will have to pay you for 2 weeks, and go through all the admin associated with a new employee. Speaking as a manager, if someone I recruited did this, I would be pretty annoyed about it. I don't think anyone would officially contact your current employer, but if someone has some contacts there, this is the sort of behaviour that might 'come up in conversation'. I don't know what industry you work in and whether people are connected, but this would be a fairly reckless thing to do with your reputation.  

 

Also, at the moment you took holidays and worked at the other company you would be employed by both companies, which is likely to be a breach of both contracts. It would probably also come to the attention of both employers when they try to pay your monthly health insurance contributions. 

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17 minutes ago, Sampa said:

If you don't want to accept the offer anymore, call the new company and tell them. They may be unhappy, but they will accept the decision and move on, and probably appreciate your candour. In that case there is no reason they would contact your old company. The fact that you have signed the offer might look bad, but they can't actually hold you to it in any way.

 

On the other hand, if you start for 2 weeks and resign on day 1, they will have to pay you for 2 weeks, and go through all the admin associated with a new employee. Speaking as a manager, if someone I recruited did this, I would be pretty annoyed about it. I don't think anyone would officially contact your current employer, but if someone has some contacts there, this is the sort of behaviour that might 'come up in conversation'. I don't know what industry you work in and whether people are connected, but this would be a fairly reckless thing to do with your reputation.  

 

Also, at the moment you took holidays and worked at the other company you would be employed by both companies, which is likely to be a breach of both contracts. It would probably also come to the attention of both employers when they try to pay your monthly health insurance contributions. 

 

You make a lot of sense Sampa, thank you. I just do not want to be 'fined' for having signed the contract and not starting my new position. I am afraid the new company will not be impressed by my 'candor' but rather ask me to pay. 

 

Either way, is it usually written in the contract that express consent should be granted by the company in case I would want to take a second job? (or do I have to assume that is the way even though it has not been specified in any of my contracts?)

 

 

 

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The new company will not be impressed.  But they would be even less impressed when you quit after 2 weeks.  And even less impressed if they later find out that you never had the intention of working for them beyond 2 weeks!

 

They won't do anything about it if you inform them now.  They can't fine you as this is not legal, the worst case is that they would take you to court and demand payment for the costs that they have incurred.  But the chances of them actually doing this are extremely low as it is not worth the extra cost (in time and effort) to them even if they did win (which they would have to prove to a judge that they really did have extra costs and that it negatively impacted their business, which would be difficult).

 

 

Then think of the other side.

You want to withdraw your resignation, which means that you would have 2 jobs at the same time which means that you would be in breach of both contracts, have issues with health insurance (who should pay these 2 weeks?) and have issues with the tax man who will put you in tax class 6 because you have 2 jobs.

You will create a lot of mess for yourself and both companies for what benefit?  

 

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On 5/13/2012, 4:15:08, LMB222 said:

Hello everybody,

 

I've found a few topics on "not going to work", or "leaving earlier - dropping work while on notice", but found no answer to my question.

 

I got a job contract with a new company last week, with 7 days to consider whether I want to sign it. I had some serious doubts about the company, but my present job is so boring that I signed it anyway.

 

In the meantime comes another headhunter, way more professional, one who understands my profile much better and wants to meet me soon. I have a gut feeling that if he has something for me, it would be much better to work for him. But then I have already signed the earlier contract.

 

What would happen if I simply told the first company that I'm not going to show up?

 

[adminmerge][/adminmerge]

 

Wait, what? 

 

Are you seriously suggesting throwing away a signed job contract for a “gut feeling”?!

 

why not honour the contract, meet with the headhunter anyhow, and consider leaving the “second best” option if something better actually comes along?!

 

how much of this you mention to the “second” headhunter is up to you, I would be fairly cautious until I saw some specific options from them and started talking about setting interviews at least.

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You resigned, you sought a new job, the old company made a better offer. 

What did they think was going to happen? It's clear you were going to go to another company or leave the area, it won't be a surprise if the new one should (unlikely) say something.

People frequently go after new jobs as a tactic of getting higher pay, you just have to really mean it when you resign.. It clearly works some of the time. The world is a hard place, particularly the workplace. 

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On 11/20/2012, 11:03:38, aries6 said:

Hello,

 

I had initially posted this on another thread, but this thread is more appropriate.

 

I have received a job offer and after some negotiations over the telephone with the firm and the recruiter, I have verbally accepted their offer. I still haven't signed the contract. Actually I haven't even received the contract in the mail yet. That should be either tomorrow or the day after.

 

Literally 5 minutes after I hung up the phone with the recruiter, I got a phone call from another recruiter informing me about a potential job where I could earn significantly more than what the other firm is offering and so I am now considering this other job.

 

I admit that I have verbally agreed to the contract, but I haven't signed anything.

 

What would happen if I am offered this other higher paying job and I accept and inform the first company that I am no longer interested in their offer?

 

Is my verbal agreement binding? I also received an email from the HR department with the attached contract where she wrote something like "Thank you for accepting our offer and we look forward to you joining our team".

 

I wouldn't retract the first job until I am offered this second job, but I wanted to know if there would be any consequences if I did.

 

Thanks.

 

Again, why would you even consider this?

 

why would you throw away a signed contract for the hope of maybe a job offer?

 

why wouldn’t you just explain you have signed a contract and the new kid on the block better offer something more concrete for you to change your mind and put everyone to that trouble?

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2 hours ago, Cyn Bonita said:

Hi :-)

 

I know this is an old post but I am currently living a similar situation and wanted to hear your advice.

 

I have quit my current job and got a new offer (which I have accepted and signed). My start date is in September.

 

My current company had a change of heart and offered me a new position (with significantly more money among other nice perks) so I have decided to accept their offer.

 

It would not be a problem for me to take two weeks holidays and work for this time at the new company (I would hand-in my resignation on the first day) but my real concern is that the new company could contact the old company for whatever reason - I know this is not legal in Germany but many things that are not legal here are still done under the table.

I would not want my old company to find out about all this, since my job would be in jeopardy.

 

Do I have a reason to be concerned or should I just go ahead, work for two weeks, resign and continue as if nothing ever happened?

 

Thank you!

 

 

Why would you even consider doing this? You have 2 offers, pick one and tell the others sorry?

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50 minutes ago, dj_jay_smith said:

The new company will not be impressed.  But they would be even less impressed when you quit after 2 weeks.  And even less impressed if they later find out that you never had the intention of working for them beyond 2 weeks!

 

They won't do anything about it if you inform them now.  They can't fine you as this is not legal, the worst case is that they would take you to court and demand payment for the costs that they have incurred.  But the chances of them actually doing this are extremely low as it is not worth the extra cost (in time and effort) to them even if they did win (which they would have to prove to a judge that they really did have extra costs and that it negatively impacted their business, which would be difficult).

 

 

Then think of the other side.

You want to withdraw your resignation, which means that you would have 2 jobs at the same time which means that you would be in breach of both contracts, have issues with health insurance (who should pay these 2 weeks?) and have issues with the tax man who will put you in tax class 6 because you have 2 jobs.

You will create a lot of mess for yourself and both companies for what benefit?  

 

 

Awesome answer, and so very right.. thank you dj_jay_smith. 

 

I was seriously scared of the fine I would need to pay - I have read about the case of a man that was asked by the company to pay 25000 euros but since the amount was excessive (and he was not even a manager) the case was dismissed in court. 

I have also heard that a month salary could be expected as compensation for the company, though.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, black1 said:

You resigned, you sought a new job, the old company made a better offer. 

What did they think was going to happen? It's clear you were going to go to another company or leave the area, it won't be a surprise if the new one should (unlikely) say something.

People frequently go after new jobs as a tactic of getting higher pay, you just have to really mean it when you resign.. It clearly works some of the time. The world is a hard place, particularly the workplace. 

 

Darn right.. Thanks black1 :-)

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