Minimum apartment size for family

[GladPal 3]

A brief Background - we are a family of three (Myself, my Wife and our little son (nearly 2years old)) and are looking forward to relocate to Munich soon. We are as of now living in an apartment in Baden-Württemberg which is 40 Sq.m in size.

 

During our house search in München, We are always said even a 45 Sq.m house is not big enough for our family. And also a friend of ours had indicated that there might be laws (Gesetz) governing (Germany / Bavaria state alone) that regulates the size of houses each one rents in Munich.

 

My Question now is, Is there any such law (Gesetz)

1) regulating the size of the house we can rent in München?

2) regulating the minimum number of rooms we need to rent (considering our little son also in mind)

If yes, Could you please let me know what is the size of apartment/ house for our family (reference to the law (Gesetz) would also be greatly helpful) ?

 

Thanks one and all in advance for your time and help.

[robinson100 12,828]

I don´t know of a law, but would generally say that you and your wife will want one bedroom, and your son will also want a room of his own, plus you will want a living room, kitchen and bathroom.

Therefore, I would recommend you rent a three-room flat.

Appart from that, look for something that you can afford!

[john g. 37,775]

GladPal: I have never heard of such a ridiculous law. I know many people who live in such small places and there are rules about what financial help people can expect if they are renting a flat and are receiving help from the State ( Hartz IV social security etc ) but on the free market?

 

Mind you, I don´t live in Bavaria and I´m not a lawyer..so who knows!! I may well be totally wrong...

[YorkshireLad6 7,152]

I'm curious to know why you are asking this question - is someone forcing you to take a small home? There is no such law, per se (and if there was I am not sure how it would be policed), but you would need to be careful that no-one might interpret your cramped living conditions as being detrimental to the upbringing of your son and accuse you of a form of child abuse. Were you to be very poorly paid, on low income, or in some way medically challenged there is social and financial support available to supplement your income or sponsor the provision of decent accommodation, whereupon they would take the size of your family into account when calculating that support or funding. In this case the rent per m² is relevant as well as the space. 60m² is considered sufficient for 2 adults, with and additional 15m² for each child.

[sarabyrd 18,767]

 

GladPal: I have never heard of such a ridiculous law.

 

It's not exactly a law; it's an accompanying regulation to be considered under laws regarding residency (Aufenthaltsgesetz), applicable to non-EU citizens.

 

 

Ausreichender Wohnraum ist eine der Voraussetzungen für die Erteilung einer Niederlassungserlaubnis, Aufenthaltserlaubnis für qualifizierte Geduldete zum Zweck der Beschäftigung, bei einem Familiennachzug.

 

Gesetzliche Definition:

 

Gesetz über den Aufenthalt, die Erwerbstätigkeit und die Integration von Ausländern im Bundesgebiet

 

(Aufenthaltsgesetz)

 

§ 2 Begriffsbestimmungen

 

....

 

4) Als ausreichender Wohnraum wird nicht mehr gefordert, als für die Unterbringung eines Wohnungssuchenden in einer öffentlich geförderten Sozialmietwohnung genügt. Der Wohnraum ist nicht ausreichend, wenn er den auch für Deutsche geltenden Rechtsvorschriften hinsichtlich Beschaffenheit und Belegung nicht genügt. Kinder bis zur Vollendung des zweiten Lebensjahres werden bei der Berechnung des für die Familienunterbringung ausreichenden Wohnraumes nicht mitgezählt.

Für eine Niederlassungserlaubnis

 

§ 9 Niederlassungserlaubnis

 

(2) Einem Ausländer ist die Niederlassungserlaubnis zu erteilen, wenn

 

....

 

9. er über ausreichenden Wohnraum für sich und seine mit ihm in häuslicher Gemeinschaft lebenden Familienangehörigen verfügt. § 18a Aufenthaltserlaubnis für qualifizierte Geduldete zum Zweck der Beschäftigung

Für eine Aufenthaltserlaubnis zur Ausübung einer der beruflichen Qualifikation entsprechenden Beschäftigung einem geduldeten Ausländer

 

§ 18a Aufenthaltserlaubnis für qualifizierte Geduldete zum Zweck der Beschäftigung

 

(1) Einem geduldeten Ausländer kann eine Aufenthaltserlaubnis zur Ausübung einer der beruflichen Qualifikation entsprechenden Beschäftigung erteilt werden, wenn er

 

....

 

2. über ausreichenden Wohnraum verfügt

Bei einem Familiennachzug zu Ausländern

 

§ 29 Familiennachzug zu Ausländern

 

(1) Für den Familiennachzug zu einem Ausländer muss

 

....

 

2. ausreichender Wohnraum zur Verfügung stehen.

Was wird darunter verstanden?

 

Wann ein Wohnraum ausreichend im Sinne des Aufenthaltsgesetzes ist wird näher durch die allgemeine Verwaltungsvorschrift der Bundesregierung zum Aufenthaltsgesetz erklärt. Danach bezieht sich die Voraussetzung „ausreichend“ auf zwei Faktoren:

 

die Beschaffenheit und

die Belegung, d.h. die Größe der Wohnung im Hinblick auf die Zahl der Bewohner.

 

Die Obergrenze bildet das Sozialwohnungsniveau, d.h. es darf keine bessere Ausstattung verlangt werden, als sie auch typischerweise Sozialwohnungen in der jeweils entsprechenden Region aufweisen.

Ausreichender Wohnraum ist stets vorhanden, wenn

für jedes Familienmitglied über sechs Jahren zwölf Quadratmeter und

für jedes Familienmitglied unter sechs Jahren zehn Quadratmeter Wohnfläche zur Verfügung stehen

und Nebenräume (Küche, Bad, WC) in angemessenem Umfang mitbenutzt werden können.

Eine Unterschreitung dieser Wohnungsgröße um etwa 10 % ist unschädlich. Wohnräume, die von Dritten mitbenutzt werden, bleiben grundsätzlich außer Betracht; mitbenutzte Nebenräume können berücksichtigt werden.

Basically, every member of the family over six has to have twelve square meters of living space, members between two and six need ten square meters, members under two years old are exempt from the regulation. In addition they must be able to share kitchen, bathing and other facilities.

 

These are the housing regulations that apply to social housing as well.

 

As to policing it: Every time I applied for a residency permit I had to provide the authorities with a copy of my lease proving adequate living space.

 

Personally, I consider 45 square meters for two adults and a growing toddler inadequate because the kid is going to get bigger and, as pointed out above, need a room of its own.

[john g. 37,775]

Amazing post, Sara! Thank you! Actually, whether it´s exactly a law or not, I have to say I´m not in favour of slum housing and I didn´t know you had to provide the authorities with a copy of a lease proving adequate living space.

 

So bomb half of Harburg...

[PandaMunich 16,704]

 

Were you to be very poorly paid, on low income, or in some way medically challenged there is social and financial support available to supplement your income ...

Claiming Hartz IV top-up or Wohngeld would be a sure way for the OP not to get his visa renewed.

 

I agree, there is no such law now.

There was one, but that was only valid until 31.12.2004. I was called the Wohungsaufsichtgesetz Bayern, but even that only set down in article 6 that each person over 6 years had to have at least 10m² and each person under 6 had to have at least 6m² living space, so you would have been ok with 45m² for you three even while the law was in force.

 

But I dare say you will have difficulty finding a landlord in Munich who is willing to rent such a small flat to a family of three, since the wear and tear would be higher than for a single person (who are the normal tenants for such small flats).

You would probably only have a chance in the not so sought after regions like Neuperlach, e.g. something like this flat.

 

Edit: please see Sara's post, the law she cites is still in place!

[LeonG 14,811]

If you were on H4, they would pay your rent for an apartment up to 75 sq.m. That is 45 sq.m. for the first person and an extra 15 for each person after that so I suppose that is what they consider adequate space. However, you can find single apartments down to 20 sq.m. and nobody forbids you to live in one.

 

I think it is unlikely that the police will come to your house and fine you for not having enough sq. m. but like sarabyrd said, it could be an issue when you renew your residency permit.

[engelchen 13,040]

 

Claiming Hartz IV top-up or Wohngeld would be a sure way for the OP not to get his visa renewed

 

It doesn't matter whether or not he is claiming it, being eligible for Hartz IV is enough of a reason not to renew their permits. Wohngeld on the other hand might be a possibility.

 

What I don't understand is how he was able to get family permits without being able to demonstrate adequate living space. I know foreigners who weren't able to even file an application without showing a lease for a large enough apartment.

[GladPal 3]

Thanks everyone for the reply. Especially sarabyrd for your "refrenced post". I am now clear how to go ahead from here. Have a great weekend :)

[LauraLee 3]

[adminmerge][/adminmerge]

 

Hello!

My husband and I as well as our three children (9.5 year old twin girls and a 5 year old boy )are planning to move to the Freiburg area and are searching online for apartments. We would like to be there by the end of 2013, but may end up being early 2014. We are wondering if there are occupancy laws, as far as certain square meter or certain number of bedrooms per person, that we need to be keeping in mind when searching. We would be happy with a two bedroom place, but want to make sure that we are staying on the correct side of any rules/regulations/laws, etc.

 

Thanks in advance,

Laura

[PandaMunich 16,704]

Please see sarabyrd's post.

[LauraLee 3]

Thanks for the quick reply. We were concerned about being able to rent a 2 br apartment for 5 people. We have only 2 bedrooms now, one for the kids, one for the parents. The kid's bedroom has bunk beds and a single and this works for us, and we would like to keep that continuity with a new apartment if permitted to do so.

[robinson100 12,828]

You might like to bear in mind that as the girls start to develop, they will most definitely not want to have a boy around anyway!

[PandaMunich 16,704]

As long as you have enough square metres as set out in sarabyrd's post that is not a problem.

[jeba 4,364]

 

We would be happy with a two bedroom place,

 

When looking for an apartment be aware that in Germany usually the total number of rooms is given in ads (including the living room). So zou would have to look for 3-room apartements (abbreviated 3 ZW for "3-Zimmer-Wohnung").

[LauraLee 3]

Yes. We are looking for 3 - 4 Zimmer Wohnungen in our price range, like this one:

http://www.immobilienscout24.de/expose/70432269?navigationServiceUrl=/search/shortlist/exposeNavigation/navigate.go?nextId%3D70429761%26realEstateId%3D70432269%26realEstateType%3D0&navigationHasPrev=false&navigationHasNext=true&navigationBarType=SHORTLIST

[visanj 4]

[adminmerge][/adminmerge]

 

Hi

 

I'm planning to move to Munich. I'm looking for apartments for rent but when I checked with couple of real estate agents, they told me to look for 3 room apartment (in german terms) for my family (including wife and kid)

 

My daughter is 4 years old and I would like to know if there is any law in Germany that we need to have a separate for child

 

Appreciate your response

 

Thanks

visanj

[sosarx 1,661]

No, there isn't such a law

[tiyana 4]

[adminmerge][/adminmerge]

 

We are 3 adults and a 4 months old baby.

Because of my minimum budget requirement, I am looking for a house/apartment which is just enough for us.

How big a house is needed for smooth address registration?

 

What all web sites are good ones for searching a furnished apartment without an agent?