Tax return after working in France and Germany

115 posts in this topic

German income tax isn't declared in the tax return.

 

The Finanzamt knows very well how much German income you pre-paid throughout the year to them. They will deduct that pre-paid German income tax from your final tax burden. If your income has remained the same as last year, then the Finanzamt will have already set your income tax pre-payments high enough so that you probably will not have to pay any extra income tax after your tax return has been processed.

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The EU country I worked at before does not have a break down for statutory pension insurance vs. statutory health insurance and so on. It is a one lump sum for social security contributions - from the employer and from the employee. How do I fill that in the German tax form? I saw the topic for Tax return after working in France and Germany, but it is not clear to me what is the best way to enter the numbers, where. In addition, if my spouse didn't work, only I worked, and we are filing jointly. do we complete 2 of the Anlage N-AUS forms? One will be all blank. 

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You only fill in Anlage N-AUS if you had non-German employee income while being resident in Germany.

 

If you this income before moving to Germany, you do not fill it into Anlage N-AUS but into line 95 of the Mantelbogen ESt1A: http://www.amtsvordrucke.de/forms/17320324047563129fa721d37800400d.pdf

That income would be your gross income minus 96% of what you paid for health insurance and minus 80% (for 2015) of your public pension contribution.

 

Regarding separating social security into its components, can't you google that country's percentages?

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Thank you PandaMunich! I was living in that other country. Then moved to DE. This is for 2012. It is hard to find that info; may need to contact someone there to get it. Even if I paid twice the income tax in that country, filing tax in DE will not get me a refund, since by DE standards, I overpaid, correct? The refund would be capped-up to the amount I probably paid here, which for 1 month, is not that bit. 

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On 12/02/2012, 21.24.19, PandaMunich said:

How to fill in Anlage N-AUS

 

Fill in a different Anlage N-AUS for each foreign country in which you had employee income.

 

line 1: your surname

line 2: your first name / an X in the box to the left of stpfl. Person/Ehemann if this is your form N-AUS, in the next box if it's your wife's

line 3: your tax number / running numbering of Anlage-AUSes, i.e if this is your one and only Anlage N-AUS, put in a 1, if it'S your 2nd one put in a 2, and so on

 

Thanks for the useful guide, PandaMunich.  Any chance you could post a similar one for this year's N-AUS?  The form has changed a bit in the last six years.

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57 minutes ago, psychonaut said:

Any chance you could post a similar one for this year's N-AUS? 

 

Nope:

Workaround: I suggest you open the 2011 form in parallel and look for the same German text passages in the new form.

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On 25/03/2018, 22.05.51, PandaMunich said:

Workaround: I suggest you open the 2011 form in parallel and look for the same German text passages in the new form.

 

Yeah, that's what I had been doing.  The problem is that the 2017 form contains lines that the 2011 doesn't, and vice versa.  (For example, line 43 of the 2011 form has been replaced with differently labelled lines 43 and 44 in the 2017 form.)  I've been muddling through anyway, since most of your previous instructions are still applicable.

 

I think I've managed to fill everything in correctly.  I was wondering whether anyone here might be able to help verify that I've done it right.  My situation is as follows: I resided in Germany for all of 2017 and my main job for was in Germany for a German employer. I made a short trip to Russia where I worked for five days for a Russian employer. I was paid €300 net and according to the documentation I received, 30% in taxes was withheld, so the gross salary was €390. I have filled in my Anlage N according to the Lohnsteuerbescheinigung from my German employer.  I surmise that I need an Anlage N-AUS for the Russian job, which is covered under a double taxation agreement.

 

On the N-AUS, I have entered nothing on lines 35 and 37—I assume these apply only if I was working abroad for a German employer.  Instead, I enter €390 on line 36 ("Bruttoarbeitslohn, von dem kein inländischer Steuerabzug vorgenommen worden ist").  I also enter the number of work days present and working in Russia on lines 46 and 47, respectively.  Am I correct in assuming that no further information needs to be entered on page 2 of N-AUS?  If so, ElsterFormular calculates a "steuerpflichtige Arbeitslohn" of 0 at the end of the form, which means I don't need to carry over the amount to my Anlage N.

 

Or am I wrong, and I do need to enter the data from my German job on line 35 and elsewhere?

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Hello!

 

I'm really sorry to ask this once again, but I am lost in the Elster form and cannot find the option.

 

I had my official residence in Berlin until April last year and then moved back to Argentina. I still need to submit my last tax declaration for 2017 and I am unsure where to fill my Argentine income. I reckon this is only to be filled in a line in the Mantelbogen ESt 1A, right? No AUS nor N-AUS in this case since it's income after I moved out, thus not taxable and only accounts for the progressiveness of the tax.

 

Now, what's the line I need to fill? The only option I see is line 96 (see below), but that seems to be for money that is not taxable but received in Germany or Europe for different reasons, and not what I earned after moving out.

 

5afb325567ccd_line96.jpg.35bb53d60149bad

 

I think Panda mentioned the correct line for the 2015 form, but I cannot find it in the 2017 form. Is it the following one?

 

5afb34275a4ee_line952015.jpg.98f33098543

 

Does anyone know where to find it in the 2017 form? Is filling up that line enough?

 

In case it changes anything, my work status is freelancer, not employee, both in and out of Germany.

 

Thanks very much!

 

Julieta

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, JulinGermany said:

Hello!

 

I'm really sorry to ask this once again, but I am lost in the Elster form and cannot find the option.

 

I had my official residence in Berlin until April last year and then moved back to Argentina. I still need to submit my last tax declaration for 2017 and I am unsure where to fill my Argentine income. I reckon this is only to be filled in a line in the Mantelbogen ESt 1A, right? No AUS nor N-AUS in this case since it's income after I moved out, thus not taxable and only accounts for the progressiveness of the tax.

 

Now, what's the line I need to fill? The only option I see is line 96 (see below), but that seems to be for money that is not taxable but received in Germany or Europe for different reasons, and not what I earned after moving out.

 

 

 

I think Panda mentioned the correct line for the 2015 form, but I cannot find it in the 2017 form. Is it the following one?

 

 

 

Does anyone know where to find it in the 2017 form? Is filling up that line enough?

 

In case it changes anything, my work status is freelancer, not employee, both in and out of Germany.

 

Thanks very much!

 

Julieta

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, digging a bit more I found this year the Anlage WA appeared and it seems that's the one I should submit for my income after moving out, right? Is there a guide on how to do so? I'm pretty confused on how to write down after line 6 (where my income for the year after moving out should be filled, right?)

 

Thanks!

 

 

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Hi @PandaMunich,

Thank you very much for your useful posts and comments.

 

I have questions regarding my case and will appreciate your help very much. Me and my husband moved from Russia to Germany in May 2018, so January-March we have been working in Russia and May-December - in Germany (we both work).

 

As for me, both in Russia and in Germany I had only employee income and as I understood by reading this post I do not need to fill in the Anlage N-AUS. But the problem is that in the main form 2018 I can not find the lines where I need to fill in my foreign income. It seems to be that the whole section was excluded from the main form (line 99 of the Mantelbogen ESt1A). Could you please take a look and suggest what to do then?

 

As for my husband, in Russia he had both employee and self-employee income. He worked for a Russian company and also remotely for an American one(self-employee income) if it is important (January-March). Should we distinguish the income in this case or we can sum up both of them, specify the total sum received and attach all the payment slips and other documents which prove that we have paid all taxes in Russia?

 

Plus my husband had an income from trading the stocks (on Moscow Stock Exchange) for the whole year. Taxes were already paid by broker, because they are responsible to do this. Should we separate the income in this case: before we moved and since we are in Germany? What lines or forms should be filled in this case? This question will be also actual for 2019, because my husband is continuing to trade stocks.

 

Plus both of us have deposits in banks left in Russia. The interest rate is small, the income is small, the taxes are paid already by the banks themselves, but still we have this income for the whole year and the situation is the same as with stocks (I mean we will continue to have it in 2019).

 

Thank you beforehand!

 

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Hello,

 

I am trying to fill in my tax form using this helpful advice, but I am a bit stuck. I have been living in Germany for 10 years (I am a UK citizen). But on 1 Jan 2018 I started work with a UK company, though remained living in Germany (I can do my work from Germany). I got NT tax status in the UK, because I understand I have to keep paying German taxes.

 

But I pay National Insurance in the UK and have an S1 health cover form which means I understand, that the German system receives money from the UK to cover my necessary KrankenVersicherung. How do I tell the German tax office in the ELSTER form that I have S1 form for these purposes. Should I write anything in the relevant lines on the ELSTER form? Since National insurance also covers pension and unemployment as well as health, is my Rentenversicherung, Arbeitslosever. and Pflegevers. also covered?

 

Thanks in advance for any help,

Tony

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Hi Panda. Just a question if you may : ) 

In 2018 my wife and i arrived in Germany. I am selbständiger (painter). She kept her work from France and worked that whole year on a 10 weekly hour basis as an attachée of her French company without ever being physically in France. I tried to put her info on Anlage S AUS, but it seems to me it is compulsory to signal the amount of days she spent abroad, in which her case is 0. Should we just fill her salary on anlage N? Thank you very much 

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I think you meant:

Quote

I tried to put her info on Anlage N-AUS

 

If she was an employee, use Anlage N-AUS.

All those details they ask for in Anlage N-AUS, e.g. how many days she physically was in France, are necessary for the Finanzamt so that it can decide whether Germany or France have the taxation rights on that employee income, so please fill in all the details.

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Hello Panda Munich.

Firstly thank a lot for all your answers on various topics discussed in this forum. Its such a nice and useful platform only because of people like you who care enough to explain the nuts and bolts of everything.

I am directing the question at you since I have read your previous answers and I realized that you have a comprehensive understanding of how most things work in Germany.

So here is my question:

Recently it has come to my notice that one must declare/ show the incomes received from interest in ones savings accounts opoened in another country. Just to elaborate. I am an Indian and have been working in Germany for the last 4 years. 
In order to have some savings and earn some amount of interest I opened two type of accounts in India , namely the NRO and the NRE account.

- The NRO account is not a tax free acount meaning that the interst i receive on my savings would be taxed in India as per the tax slabs.
Should this also be declared in Germany while filing tax here ? 
Since India and Germany have a DTAA pact , I am assuming that I so not need to show it here in Germany while doing my taxes.

- The NRE account is however a tax free account meaning that I do not have to pay any taxes in India for the income I earn through the interest of my savings.
This in my understanding should be declared in Germany , isn't it ?
I want to know how is this calcualted in Germany ?

Moreover which form needs to be filled for this the "Anlage N - AUS " or just Anlage AUS ? 
What is the difference between these two forms .
In the internet I found this Anlage AUS --> "had income from outside Germany while being resident in Germany you'll need to also fill in Anlage AUS"
AnlangeN-AUS " if you had employee income from outside Germany while being resident in Germany" I do not understand what employee income means . 
What is more suitable to my situation ?

Thanks and Regards
Brinda

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1 hour ago, Brinda said:

I do not understand what employee income means

 

Employee income means income from a job, to which you go and where you have a boss who tells you what to do.

 

That Indian income is not employee income, but capital income, which - from the moment you moved to Germany - been declared in Anlage KAP, line 15 " Ausländische Kapitalerträge":  https://www.steuern.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Steuerformulare_2018/Anlage_KAP_18.pdf

The double taxation agreement between Germany and India clearly gives in article 11 the taxation rights to all your capital income (NRO + NRE) to Germany.

India is allowed to charge a source tax of up to 10%, this Indian source tax is declared in line 52 of Anlage KAP, and you have to attach proof for that Indian tax, e.g. your Indian bank slips.

 

All double taxation agreements worldwide give the taxation right for capital income to the country you live in, i.e. to Germany.

 

There is a tax-free amount for interest of 801€ a year (1,602€ if you're married), so you would only end up paying tax on the part of the interest that exceeds 801€ (or 1,602€), and the tax rate would be 26.375% or your personal income tax rate if that should be lower.

However, even if your interest is below that tax-free amount, you still have to declare it every year!

 

I suggest you immediately write the Finanzamt a letter, declaring the interest (converted to €, take the exchange rates from these official tables) that you forgot to declare:

 

***************************************************************

An 

Finanzamt Aachen

Krefelder Str. 210
52070 Aachen

 

 

Betrifft: Meldung meiner ausländischen Zinseinkünfte

Steuernummer: your Steuernummer

 

 

Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren,

 

ich habe eben erfahren, daß ich meine indischen Zinseinkünfte in Deutschland versteuern muß, dies möchte ich hiermit nachholen:

 

2015:

???€ indische Zinseinkünfte

???€ indische Quellensteuer auf diese Zinsen

 

2016:

???€ indische Zinseinkünfte

???€ indische Quellensteuer auf diese Zinsen

 

2017:

???€ indische Zinseinkünfte

???€ indische Quellensteuer auf diese Zinsen

 

2018:

???€ indische Zinseinkünfte

???€ indische Quellensteuer auf diese Zinsen

 

Mit freundlichen Grüßen

your signature

your name

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Hello PandaMunich,

 

Thank you so much for this information. This means that I do need to fill in either AnlageAUS or Anlage N-.AUS

 

Is this correct ?

 

Thanks once again for such a detailed reply along with the sample Mail. That is really helpful and generous of you. 

 

Thanks  a ton 

 

With Regards

Brinda 

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20 minutes ago, Brinda said:

This means that I do need to fill in either AnlageAUS or Anlage N-.AUS

 

Is this correct ?

 

No. 

It means that in the future, in your German tax return, you declare your worldwide interest income in Anlage KAP.

 

If you had other foreign income, you will need Anlage AUS, e.g. if you had rental income in India, you have to declare that Indian rental income both in Anlage AUS and Anlage V (= Vermietung = rental).

 

20 minutes ago, Brinda said:

Thanks once again for such a detailed reply along with the sample Mail.

 

You do understand that this is a letter that you have to print out, sign and send by postal service (or hand in personally) to the Finanzamt Aachen's postal address?

It is not supposed to be an e-mail.

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