Tax return after working in France and Germany

[MWB 3]

Hi All,

I have worked 3 months in France and rest of the time in Germany in 2011. I have paid taxes in France for those 3 months ( totally seprate job than German) and then i shifted here in Germany and got new job.

 

Can someone please guide me how can i claim tax returns for both? Germany and France.... if i only claim tax returns from Germany, am i supposed to mention my income from France as well?

 

Thanks for reply!

[PandaMunich 16,083]

 

Can someone please guide me how can i claim tax returns for both? Germany and France....

Employ a French tax advisor for the French one?

 

For the German one you can either:

 

• do it yourself using the step-by-step instructions in the TT Elster wiki (yellow section for employees),
  
• or - if you only had employee income - pay a Lohnsteuerhilfeverein to do it for you, see Claiming tax deductions for details and cost.
  

 

It would probably be best to let a Lohnsteuerhilfeverein do it for you for 2011, since you have lots of potential deductions you can claim for, like moving costs from France to Munich and maybe "doppelte Haushaltsführung" (see post no. 220 in Filing a Tax Return) and they would fill in the forms for you so that you claim as much as possible.

 

 

if i only claim tax returns from Germany, am i supposed to mention my income from France as well?

 

Yes, in the tax form Anlage N-AUS if you were an employee in France.

If you were not an employee, fill in your French income into Anlage AUS.

[PandaMunich 16,083]

If you received employee income outside Germany, you will have to fill in Anlage N-AUS.

 

This form is a new tax form that is first used in your tax return for 2011, before then employee income was declared in Anlage AUS along with all other kinds of foreign income.

From 2011, Anlage AUS is just the place to declare all non-employee foreign income.

 

The foreign income won't be taxed again, but it will raise your tax rate, i.e. because of this foreign income you will have to pay more tax on your German income. This is called progression.

 

If you want to calculate the effect of progression for yourself, there is an official online calculator for calculating it, provided by the Finanzamt.

 

Just choose/fill in there:

Veranlagungsjahr: year for which you are submitting your tax return

Einkommensteuertarif: Grundtarif (if you're unmarried or married but your spouse doesn't live in Germany) or Splittingtarif (if you're married and your spouse also lives in Germany)

Zu versteuerndes Einkommen: your German income in euro

Dem Progressionsvorbehalt unterliegende Ersatzleistungen und Einkünfte in Euro: your foreign income in euro

and click on "Einkommensteuer berechnen"

 

**********************************************************

How to fill in Anlage N-AUS

 

Fill in a different Anlage N-AUS for each foreign country in which you had employee income.

 

line 1: your surname

line 2: your first name / an X in the box to the left of stpfl. Person/Ehemann if this is your form N-AUS, in the next box if it's your wife's

line 3: your tax number / running numbering of Anlage-AUSes, i.e if this is your one and only Anlage N-AUS, put in a 1, if it'S your 2nd one put in a 2, and so on

line 4: country in which you had the foreign employee income, e.g. France

line 5: mark the box to the left of "nach dem Doppelbesteuerungsabkommen (DBA)" with an X

 

line 7: did you keep up a flat/house in that foreign country?

If no, check the box to the left of "Nein", and jump to line 12

If yes, check the box to the left of "Ja", and go to line 8

 

line 8: address of your flat/house in that foreign country: street name and house number

line 9: postal code and name of foreign city

line 10: name of that foreign country, e.g. France

line 11: is that foreign country the centre of your life? This is the case if all your family lives there and you still regularly go back there to visit.

If no, check the box to the left of "Nein", and jump to line 12

If yes, check the box to the left of "Ja", and attach separate piece of paper explaining in detail why you think that country is still the centre of your life, e.g. you still have/rent a house/flat there, all your family lives there, you keep your wife (and kids) there, ...

 

line 12: address of your employer (this can be a foreign address if you worked for a foreign company, or a German one if you worked for a German company outside Germany). It has to be the official address of the headquarters: street name and house number

line 13: postal code and name city

line 14: country

 

line 17: during your first stay there that year: what you worked as, e.g. Programmierer / from date: / to date:

line 18: during your second stay there that year: what you worked as, e.g. Programmierer / from date: / to date:

line 19: during your third stay there that year: what you worked as, e.g. Programmierer / from date: / to date:

If you had more than three stints in that foreign country, attach a paper of paper listing them in the above format.

 

line 20: total number of days during that calendar year that you spent in that foreign country.

They don't mean how many days you worked there, but how many days you were actually physically there. Even if you only spent one hour in that country on a given day, that counts as a full day spent there.

Exceptions:

 

• if you worked in Denmark, then they only want the days you actually worked there
  
• if you worked in Belgium, then they only want the days you actually worked there plus the official holidays, plus the Saturdays, plus the Sundays, even if you didn't spend them in Belgium
  

 

 

line 21: reason for first interruption of the work in that foreign country / from date / to date

e.g.: Training / 1.6.2011 / 15.6.2011

line 22: reason for second interruption of the work in that foreign country / from date / to date

e.g.: Sales trip and fair attendance / 14.8.2011 / 28.8.2011

 

line 26: if you were working for a branch in that foreign country of a German company, mark this box with an X

line 27: if you were working for a foreign company, mark this box with an X

 

line 31: official name of the actual branch of the company you worked for

line 32: address of your employer (this can be a foreign address if you worked for a foreign company, or a German one if you worked for a German company outside Germany). It has to be the official address of the actual branch of the company you worked for: street name and house number

line 33: postal code and name city

line 34: country

 

Your salary in that foreign country:

You have to attach documents to prove:

 

• that the foreign country did not want any tax on your salary, or
  
• that you paid tax on your salary in that foreign country
  

 

This proof can be:

 

• if you had to submit a tax return in that foreign country: the official tax return certificate you received from that foreign country's tax department, or
  
• if you didn't have to submit a tax return in that foreign country: a certificate issued by your employer stating: how long you worked in that foreign country, your gross salary there, and how much foreign tax you paid on that salary

 

line 36: If your employer was a foreign companyy, or a foreign branch of a German company: your total foreign income, i.e. foreign gross yearly salary, plus any payments your employer made to you because you were working in a foreign country, e.g. reimbursed travel costs, over-time, Sunday/holiday work, bonuses/extra payments, extra payments because you had to work in a foreign country, rent if your employer paid the rent for you in that foreign country, ...

 

line 35: If your employer was a German company: your gross yearly salary (in accordance with the Lohnsteuerbescheinigung they issued you). This is also part of the amount you will fill into line 6 of your Anlage N (i.e. in Anlage N you will have foreign income and German income paid by your German employer)

line 37: If your employer was a German company: tax-free payments as mentioned in line 16 of the Lohnsteuerbescheinigung your employer gave you.

 

line 38: sum of amounts in lines 35, 36 and 37

 

line 42: Only fill this in if you also worked in Germany during that foreign stint: deduct the sum of any payments your employer made to you because for the time you worked in Germany, e.g. reimbursed travel costs in Germany, over-time, Sunday/holiday work, bonuses/extra payments, ...

e.g. Reisekosten in Deutschland, Überstunden / total amount

 

line 43: deduct the sum of any payments your employer made to you because you were working in a foreign country, e.g. reimbursed travel costs outside Germany, extra payments because you had to work in a foreign country, rent if your employer paid the rent for you in that foreign country, ...

e.g. Reisekosten im Ausland, Miete im Ausland, Auslandspauschalen / total amount

 

line 44: this is your pure working salary (monthly salaries + holiday money + Christmas money), i.e all the money you received minus what you were paid for directly attributable extras in Germany and outside Germany like bonuses, travel costs, rent, ..: amount from line 38, minus amount from line 42, minus amount from line 39

 

line 45: number of days in that calendar you were supposed to have been working in that foreign country (= planned days), i.e. 365 days minus the days of holiday you have in your contract, minus legal holidays in that country, minus weekends

line 46: number of days in that calendar year that you actually worked in that foreign country: deduct any days or parts of days you spent outside that foreign country, e.g. on sales trips, or on training courses outside that country

 

line 47: Now they calculate how much of your remaining income from line 44 that foreign country had the right to tax:

amount from line 44 x actually worked days in foreign country from line 46 / planned days in foreign country from line 45

 

line 48: add your payments your employer made to you because you were working in a foreign country from line 43

 

line 49: the total amount that foreign country had the right to tax: sum of lines 47, 48

 

line 50: fill in only if you had foreign income in more than one foreign country. Then you will have to attach additional copies of the Anlage N-AUS, one for each country.

If this is the case, copy into this, your first and main Anlage N-AUS, the sum of all the lines 49 in all the other Anlage N-AUS, so that they can see your total worldwide employee income from outside Germany at one glance in this, your first and main Anlage N-AUS.

 

line 51: your total worldwide employee income from outside Germany: sum of lines 49 and 50

 

--> Copy amount from line 51 into your Anlage N, line 21.

--> Copy the difference: (amount_line_44 - amount_line_47) into your Anlage N, line 20.

 

Attach to this Anlage N-AUS any documents you can think of that explain your situation, e.g. copies of salary slips, tax certificates, ...

This will help the German tax department classify your income correctly and they can't later accuse you of having hidden something because that way they will have had all the raw data that you had yourself and if they then make a mistake it's clearly their fault and not yours.

Total transparency is the way to go with the German Finanzamt.

[MWB 3]

Hi Panda,

Thanks for helping again the community. One quick question, Zu versteuerndes Einkommen: your German income in euro: Here income means before tax or after deducting tax, the money you get?

 

Thanks,

[PandaMunich 16,083]

 

One quick question, Zu versteuerndes Einkommen: your German income in euro: Here income means before tax or after deducting tax, the money you get?

 

It's the taxable income, also known as the the gross income, i.e. it's before tax.

 

The amount you get paid out would be the net income, which you get after you deduct from your gross income the income tax that you calculated with that nifty online income tax calculator.

[PandaMunich 16,083]

 

I have worked 3 months in France and rest of the time in Germany in 2011. I have paid taxes in France for those 3 months ( totally seprate job than German) and then i shifted here in Germany and got new job.

 

Can someone please guide me how can i claim tax returns for ... France

Instructions for the French tax return forms in post no. 346 in Filing a Tax Return.

[rbrown46 0]

Hi Panda,

 

Thanks for your amazing guides to these forms.

 

On the Anlage N-AUS, I'm wondering how I should do the currency conversion for foreign income and taxes. I worked in the US last year, and federal income tax, social security, etc was taken out of my monthly pay check (I've yet to file my US return). Should I perform the currency conversion for each month using the table in the Umsatzsteuer-Umrechnungskurse and add them up, or only once for the end of the year?

 

Best,

Ryan

[PandaMunich 16,083]

I would do it for each month.

[eng77 0]

Thank you for this great topic.

One question, I have income in GBP, how can I enter this income in the taxation software?

 

Thanks in advance

[PandaMunich 16,083]

You should use these conversion tables to convert the GBP amount into €.

 

However, if you had this GBP employee income before you moved to Germany, then you do not fill it into Anlage N-AUS, but into line 99 of the Mantelbogen ESt1A.

[Diya66 3]

Hi All,

 

I am currently doing the tax return for 2012. I had worked from Jan 2012 - Feb 2012 in UK and then I moved to India( did not work there) and then came to Germany for work from Aug 2012.

Can please someone tell me how many forms am I supposed to send? Are all these 4 forms necessary for me to submit for my situation mentioned above? Or is there additional forms I need to do?

 

1) Mantelbogen ESt1A.

2) Anlage N

3) Anlage N AUS

4) Anlage Vorsorgeaufwendungen

 

Also Panda Munich - As per your last reply in March 2013. I see that u mentioned that one does not need to fill in anlage N Aus. I am bit confused if I need this form now for my situation or not?

 

"However, if you had this GBP employee income before you moved to Germany, then you do not fill it into Anlage N-AUS, but into line 99 of the Mantelbogen ESt1A."

 

Many thanks for your reply in advance.

 

Look forward to your response.

[PandaMunich 16,083]

Yes, you just need these 3 forms:

 

1. 
   
   
2. Mantelbogen ESt 1A: enter your UK income into line 99
   
3. Anlage N: for your German income from August 2012
   
4. Anlage Vorsorgaufwand: for your German pension insurance, health insurance, and other insurances
   

[elgitanito 0]

Hi All,

 

My situation is a bit different from the one described above but I'd like to know if someone has advices or is in a similar situation.

 

I'm living in Germany for a few years now and until 2012 I have paid my taxes in Canada. Starting with 2012, I will have to pay in Germany as I'm no more a resident of Canada. Note that my Employer is in Canada and the company doesn't have any office here. This is the situation described on this web page:

 

http://www.steuerliches-info-center.de/EN/SteuerrechtFuerInvestoren/Allgemeine_Informationen/Arbeitgeberpflichten/Arbeitgeberpflichten_node.html

 

So basically I have to take care of everything myself on the German side of the story. First thing will be to take care of taxes. Anyone knows which formular I should fill? Should I fill Anlage N-AUS? I have the impression that it applies only when someone works outside of Germany?

 

Many Thanks!

 

El Gitanito

[paulinmunich 6]

Hi PandaMunich, I have a question, but first, my details:

I started work in Germany last August 2012 as an employee and worked a total of 81 days in Germany up until Christmas (note: I registered in Germany for the first time in August of last year and continue to work here this year). For the first half of last year, I worked in Finland and had my tax return done over there for this half year. Do I need to declare this income in Finland in my German tax return? My understanding was that if you worked and lived in Germany for less than 180 days in that tax year, then I only pay tax on my German income and don't need to declare 'world income'. Does this hold the same in this situation and do I need to declare my Finnish income?

 

Thanks very much, you are a legend in these forums :-)

[PandaMunich 16,083]

 

Do I need to declare this income in Finland in my German tax return?

 

Yes, you have to declare your gross Finnish income in line 99 of the Mantelbogen ESt 1A.

 

 

My understanding was that if you worked and lived in Germany for less than 180 days in that tax year, then I only pay tax on my German income and don't need to declare 'world income'.

 

Now, wherever did you get that from?

 

You didn't understand correctly. Germany never taxes your Finnish income.

 

The German tax system works in the way that people who have higher yearly incomes and are there able to pay more tax, have to pay a higher tax rate.

So everybody is taxed according to his/her ability to pay.

 

They will add up your Finnish and German incomes that year, look up the tax rate that would be due on such a yearly income and apply that tax rate to the German income only.

So your Finnish income only means that you pay a higher tax rate than normal on your German income.

This is called progression.

 

You can calculate it for yourself by entering your German taxable income (= zu versteuerndes Einkommen) and your Finnish progression income (= Dem Progressionsvorbehalt ...) into this official progression calculator.

[paulinmunich 6]

Hi Panda,

 

Thanks very much for your reply....This is the source I found the 180 day rule:

 

http://www.taxrates.cc/html/germany-tax-rates.html

 

The sentences of note are:

 

Income tax is payable by German resident individuals on their worldwide income. Non-resident individuals are only required to pay tax on German-sourced income.

 

Individuals are deemed resident if they have a residence in or their customary place of abode is in Germany. The latter is the case if the individual has spent more than 180 consecutive days of the relevant year in Germany.

 

Its about the fourth 'paragraph' down. By residence, I took this as being a fixed home?? In the case of customary place of abode, which I deem myself the situation to be in, then in the 2012 tax year, I was in Germany for less than this 180 days.

 

What do you think??

 

Cheers

[PandaMunich 16,083]

You registered here, live in a flat (not in a hotel!), and you came here with the intention to stay

--> you are a classic case of being resident and therefore had unlimited tax liability in Germany from the moment you registered here.

[paulinmunich 6]

Thanks very much Panda. Wouou have by any chance, the notes for filling out numbers 61 to 82 in the 2012 Anlage N-AUS form?

 

You are a legend!

[PandaMunich 16,083]

You do not need the Anlage N-AUS, since you did not have the Finnish income during a time in which you were already resident in Germany.

 

At the risk of repeating myself:

 

 

Yes, you have to declare your gross Finnish income in line 99 of the Mantelbogen ESt 1A.

 

 

[gikupiku 0]

Hi Panda,

 

First of all I would like to thank you for your great contribution to this community.

 

I have a question also about this Anlage N-AUS form. I think I am in the same situation as paulinmunich, but let me give you some details first: I moved to Germany in July 2012 from Romania, after finding a job here as a Software Developer. I registered my residence in Berlin at that time. Before this, for the first half of the year, I worked in Romania for two different companies and for my incomes I payed the taxes to the Romanian state.

I filled all the required documents on Elster Online but yesterday I received by post a letter asking me to fill in Anlage N-AUS and to send it back. Is this necessary in my case?

 

Thanks a lot!