Life without alcohol

575 posts in this topic

47 minutes ago, A.N.Other said:

Anyway, by the end of the three weeks, I had written my alcohol CV, which really opened my eyes to just how bad and how long it really was, and the woman in charge of that sent it off to the DRV. Since I was already in Detox the DRV is bound by law (so I understand) to give an answer very quickly. They approved it and I was scheduled to go to Rehab in Hochstadt am Main.

 

When I checked into Detox, I had absolutely no idea about how all of this works. I actually thought that was the Rehab and when I was done with that, I was done. Having absolutely no clue, I just chose the Rehab facility that was closest to where I was and that was where I went. It wasn't until later that I found out that it wasn't really suited to my needs at all.

 

The vast majority of the people at the Rehab there are straight out of jail, having been released early with Rehab as a condition for that release. An even higher percentage of the patients were receiving HarzIV. With that in mind, the System at Hochstadt were based more on getting the people on their feet than it was strictly about giving up alcohol or illicit drugs.

 

Half of the day was work therapy and the other half was "other types" of therapy. For work therapy you were assigned to a certain work detail. The possibilities were cleaning, gardening, carpentry, Hausmeister, or Ergo Therapy, which was basically whatever you wanted within reason. I was a different type of patient than they were used to and they let me more or less decide what work Detail I was willing to do.  I had no problem with cleaning and was on that detail for the majority of my 15 week stay. I refused to do carpentry or gardening and they let me get away with refusing. Others had been kicked out for such refusal, but I was able to make the case that I earn a shitload of money with my ten fingers and am not taking any chance of cutting one or more of them off.

 

I didn't need the work therapy at all, but also didn't want to be a completely "Special Person" especially in the eyes of the other patients. I also didn't need the social therapy, which included getting your HarzIV paperwork in order, taking care of lawyers, judges, etc. The real reason I was there was for the actual Therapy, which was generally an hour a day, three to four days a week. This was definitely not the right rehab for me, but as I said, I was clueless to that when I applied. Once I was there, I didn't want to drop out and just made the best of it.

 

If you decide to go the Rehab route, get Information beforehand on which facility really suits your needs. In my case it has worked so far, but most of that (in my opinion) is due to the forced 18 weeks of sobriety and not really the type of rehab provided.

 

I will probably post more and would be happy to answer any questions, be it here or via PM for as long as I'm still actively posting here.   That is, however, the message that I really wanted to get out there. If you find yourself in this situation. You have to say "heck with everything else" and just do it. In my experience it is worth it. Good luck.

 

PS: I haven't been completely dry since I got out of rehab in the middle of December. I bought a bottle of Whiskey and drank it a couple of months ago. I had been itching for one last drink fest and I finally just said, heck with it, I'm going to have my "I'm done now" drinkfest. I did that and have been clean since. Let's hope it holds... 

 

 

Keep going strong.

Give yourself very small treats when your wife is with you, so that she could tell you to stop at one point.

 

I would say try to find something else more tasty or so.

Or try to develop a new hobby, cooking, singing, musical instruments, or just find good movies to watch when you start to think about whiskey.

 

I myself can never understand why people drink or smoke. But probably is as comforting as chocolates.

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1 minute ago, A.N.Other said:

 

What was she supposed to do to stop me? I‘ve never been a violent person, even when drunk, but how exactly do you force a drunk man to stop if he doesn’t want to? 

 

She waited for a relatively sober moment then talked about going to the dr. and I agreed. 

 

Lock all liquoir in a place that you cannot open, and hide your wallet.

What can you do then?

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41 minutes ago, SmurfLee said:

 

I myself can never understand why people drink or smoke. 

 

This only demonstrates that you do not understand. Nothing more,  nothing less. Doesn't really help the person posting. I personally try to steer clear of offering advice where I am out of my own competence area but each to their own. 

 

People often say in English "I can never understand" when they are being critical of someone else's problems (often seen by society as weaknesses) in a rather backhanded and disrespectful manner.

 

I think that you are posting from a good place but please be prepared that if you use language such aa this on a forum with native english speakers then some people will be offended by what you write (or even better chose to be offended as they have some free time on their hands). 

 

 

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1 hour ago, A.N.Other said:

When I checked into Detox, I had absolutely no idea about how all of this works. I actually thought that was the Rehab and when I was done with that, I was done. Having absolutely no clue, I just chose the Rehab facility that was closest to where I was and that was where I went. It wasn't until later that I found out that it wasn't really suited to my needs at all.

 

I am sure this point will be of great help to others who are not familiar with the german system. Thank you .:rolleyes:

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46 minutes ago, SmurfLee said:

Give yourself very small treats when your wife is with you, so that she could tell you to stop at one point.

 

so what, is she going to monitor his behavior for life to prevent a relapse?  this is not his wife's problem to solve.  it's just not, in any way, shape or form.  

 

please step off. 

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54 minutes ago, SmurfLee said:

I myself can never understand why people drink or smoke.

With all your alleged high IQ, do you not see your own condescension?

 

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1 hour ago, SmurfLee said:

 

Lock all liquoir in a place that you cannot open, and hide your wallet.

What can you do then?

Supporting a loved one with an addiction is a very complex issue. Flippant comments on such a serious issue are not appropriate.

 

@A.N.Other, thank you for sharing your journey.  I wish you and your wife all the very best.

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@A.N.Other, mad respect for your journey.

 

As for the idiot recommending you to have "very small treats" I beg you not to listen her. I have dealt with addicted people, and the smallest amount of whatever is your poison will set you off again!

But then you already know that.

 

I wish you all the best.

If you fall, stand up again. Forgive yourself and keep going.

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4 hours ago, Metall said:

As for the idiot recommending you to have "very small treats" I beg you not to listen her. I have dealt with addicted people, and the smallest amount of whatever is your poison will set you off again!

But then you already know that.

 

Thanks Metall. I was wondering what the heck she even meant by treats. It wasn‘t until right now that I realized she meant alcohol. :lol:

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14 hours ago, SmurfLee said:

 

Lock all liquoir in a place that you cannot open, and hide your wallet.

What can you do then?

 

This doesn't work. My father was an alcoholic and he found every single hiding place. Unfortunately, he was also a violent man. 

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40 minutes ago, bramble said:

 

This doesn't work. My father was an alcoholic and he found every single hiding place. Unfortunately, he was also a violent man. 

 

I'm sorry to hear that. My father was a violent man, but never drank. I shudder to think how that would have been, had he also been a drinker.

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14 hours ago, Kommentarlos said:

 

This only demonstrates that you do not understand. Nothing more,  nothing less. Doesn't really help the person posting. I personally try to steer clear of offering advice where I am out of my own competence area but each to their own. 

 

Not all posts are trying to help. Some are just questions.

I was only asking someone who has such experience with alcohol why they can enjoy alcohol, what is so attractive of the substance, why it is so difficult to stop or just avoid

 

 

Quote

People often say in English "I can never understand" when they are being critical of someone else's problems (often seen by society as weaknesses) in a rather backhanded and disrespectful manner.

 

Really? this is very interesting to hear.

Out of curiosity, I checked the meaning of "I can never understand":

https://ludwig.guru/s/I+can+never+understand

Seems like it can be used both ways, for good things and bad things.

It simply means based on the person's life experiences and perceptions on things, the person cannot comprehend, or feel beyond her capacity to comprehend something.

Most of all, it is open question, and explanations are welcome kind of attitude.

I am not native EN speaker, and never noticed the nuance of the expression.

I can only search on internet.

But after all, you are more expert than me on this.

 

Quote

I think that you are posting from a good place but please be prepared that if you use language such aa this on a forum with native english speakers then some people will be offended by what you write (or even better chose to be offended as they have some free time on their hands). 

 

I feel that I should say I drink, and if I start, hard to stop, alcohol makes me feel so good, I can totally understand why A.N.other did what he did, I had same experience, ... my father drinks heavily, he is violent, my mother too, our home is all drunk totally chaos, ... I had horrible childhood, violent abusive parents, lack of love, I have been dealing with weight problems since 14, BMI is astonishing 45, bullied in school because of weight, I have such understanding for obese people, because of what I went through, I gained weight and could not take care for myself because I always feel worthless, ...

 

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I'm shocked to hear how commonplace drugs and alcohol abuse is amongst teens and young adults. In my daughter's wider circle of acquaintances those with no addictions are the exception.  

 

One of many similar stories...a formerly lovely kid spiraled into a terrible state.  Started with regular alcohol binges, then also drugs.  Regularly hospitalized due to alcohol and drug related injuries. Kicked out of school and abusive home.  Started dealing drugs and arrested for theft.  Twice spent two weeks in a youth offenders institute over the last year.  He recently turned 18 and went back to live with his abusive father after a few years of staying with various friends like a stray child.  His addiction escalated.  The father lost his business and evicted from the family home. Father and son ended up in a homeless shelter.

 

All credit to the kid, he told my daughter and her boyfriend how he felt in reaching such an absolute rock bottom. With the help of my daughter's boyfriend's mother whom he had stolen from before to fund his addiction, he has finally got the help he needs to turn his life around.  He's now in a rehab clinic and dearly wants to go back to school so that he can make something of his life.  

 

I can't help wonder why he was never helped by social services especially as he had been in foster care as a young child due to violence at home. And, why not following his youth offences?  

 

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1 hour ago, SmurfLee said:

I feel that I should say I drink, and if I start, hard to stop, alcohol makes me feel so good, I can totally understand why A.N.other did what he did, I had same experience, ...

 

Mine, at least my really heavy drinking since 2011, was to turn off my mind. I didn't have to think. I literally drank myself into oblivion. I still miss that aspect of it very much. To be able, at least every once in a while, to turn everything off.

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8 minutes ago, A.N.Other said:

 

Mine, at least my really heavy drinking since 2011, was to turn off my mind. I didn't have to think. I literally drank myself into oblivion. I still miss that aspect of it very much. To be able, at least every once in a while, to turn everything off.

 

Ok, thanks for the honest answer. This helps me understand the addiction.

 

Why I eat chocolates?

The taste and the texture when it melts down makes me feel so good, but it does not turn me off.

In fact, I read somewhere that there is some component in chocolates that causes addiction.

Sometimes, the taste of chocolate does not go away from my head, and I must eat that. Otherwise I cannot focus on anything.

 

I also like spicy food. I heard that this is also a bit of addiction.

When we have spicy food, we feel light pain, then our bodies secret some chemical that makes us feel good. When the pain went away, the chemical is still working....

 

Neither of these can turn me off. But they give me pleasure.

I think I can have control on them. My fam. doc. suggested 200g, no more than 300g chocolates a week. I am doing pretty well.

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39 minutes ago, emkay said:

I'm shocked to hear how commonplace drugs and alcohol abuse is amongst teens and young adults. In my daughter's wider circle of acquaintances those with no addictions are the exception.  

 

 

In rehab the drug-addicted were almost exclusively late-teens to 20-somethings, while the alcoholics were all middle aged.

 

Drug Problems generally get identified earlier, because there is crime involved and because alcohol abuse is generally accepted. At the very least because the drugs themselves are illegal and also because illegal activities were often required to obtain the necessary funds.

 

The "druggies", as they referred to themselves, often had noticeable loss of brain function. They often had to relearn how to do relatively simple tasks. With alcoholics that seems to take a lot longer. I got really lucky, as the alcohol had no affect on my liver and other organs, and either I was a super-genius before or I suffered no noticeable damage to my brain.

 

When I was a teen, I would have taken anything someone put in my hand. I did LSD, cocaine and marijuana. I'm so happy that ecstacy, synthetic marijuana, etc. were all after "my time". These "kids" either don't realize how quickly they destroy their brain cells, or don't care.

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22 minutes ago, A.N.Other said:

 

Mine, at least my really heavy drinking since 2011, was to turn off my mind. I didn't have to think. I literally drank myself into oblivion. I still miss that aspect of it very much. To be able, at least every once in a while, to turn everything off.

 

that made me wonder:  could meditation be a tool here?

 

there is a common misunderstanding that meditation is about "stopping" your mind or zoning out in some thoughtless state.  It's most definitely not!

 

what it is about (at least the type I was taught) is developing the ability to just observe your thoughts and let them be as they are.  Without having to interact with them, per se, or do anything about it at all.

 

since it's nigh impossible to actually stop thinking, barring self destructive behavior, maybe finding some detachment from your thoughts could help.

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Just now, lisa13 said:

 

that made me wonder:  could meditation be a tool here?

 

there is a common misunderstanding that meditation is about "stopping" your mind or zoning out in some thoughtless state.  It's most definitely not!

 

what it is about (at least the type I was taught) is developing the ability to just observe your thoughts and let them be as they are.  Without having to interact with them, per se, or do anything about it at all.

 

since it's nigh impossible to actually stop thinking, barring self destructive behavior, maybe finding some detachment from your thoughts could help.

 

They had that in rehab. I was told that I shouldn't do it, because hyper-active people just go nuts. I actually found that simply being forced to stay sober for 18 weeks and confront the situations that I was blacking out, actually forced me to accept things as they are, which is what I think you are suggesting here.

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39 minutes ago, A.N.Other said:

 

Mine, at least my really heavy drinking since 2011, was to turn off my mind. I didn't have to think. I literally drank myself into oblivion. I still miss that aspect of it very much. To be able, at least every once in a while, to turn everything off.

 

Good luck going forward.   Hope you are able to succeed. 

 

Have you considered doing sports to turn off your mind?

 

Running, biking, hiking, walking, i.e. low impact might not be taxing enough to shut your mind off.    

 

Two simple examples are running stairs and jumping rope.   You can count the stairs or repetitions, but unless you are really fit, it is hard to think about your grocery list to say nothing of whatever it is you would like to push out of your working memory.   You have to focus on the task at hand if only for a few minutes.     

 

Some people can get the same effect from playing cards, board games or billiards.   

 

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24 minutes ago, A.N.Other said:

They had that in rehab. I was told that I shouldn't do it, because hyper-active people just go nuts. I actually found that simply being forced to stay sober for 18 weeks and confront the situations that I was blacking out, actually forced me to accept things as they are, which is what I think you are suggesting here.

 

ah ok - no I didn't get that there were specific things you were trying to avoid thinking about via drinking.

 

you said you wanted to stop thinking which I took in general terms, hence my suggestion.  yes yes, you know I am too literal sometimes :)

 

I think meditation can help hyperactive people quite a lot, but you have to go about it differently.  I don't think groups are well suited for this as you are sort of "trapped" with the others in this case and yes, that would drive some crazy.  I had an ADHD friend who was advised to start with one minute (not kidding!) then work his way up from there.  He was eventually good for 15-20 minutes and really, that's plenty to get benefit

 

but this is not at all related to what you are talking about I think. 

 

eta:  it's mostly good for giving you insight into how much stuff is constantly running around in your brain, all the damned time.  Eventually you start to develop some detachment to the extent that you can more easily pick and choose which thoughts you want to follow, act on, etc while you let the other ones just drift by instead of getting attached to them.  AND you start doing this more in day to day life.  I haven't meditated in years but I still have some semblance of the ability to notice my thoughts as they fly by.  It's great and often very funny, and of course can be helpful

 

 

 

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