Anti-rentner rant

107 posts in this topic

Many of these old people actually have money because they have always been frugal. Compare with many of the young people today who go into debt so they can buy a bigger flat screen, brand new car etc.

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What's the difference between a "freelancer" as referred to by Tap and CopyWriter and a "true freelancer" as written above?

 

I guess I used the wrong wording. I meant the ones who aren't considered to be in need of social protection (Sozialschutzbedürftig)

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@ Herr Dinksbumps:

 

One point in the CSU proposal seems to have been overlooked and has resulted in some confusion. The proposal was that the self-employed (including freelancers) be required to take out some form of retirement insurance, whether statutory OR private. (Currently, they don't have to do anything at all. (See: http://www.tagesscha...orsorge102.html & http://www.heute.de/...8433136,00html)

 

 

 

 

Don't get me wrong, mate, I'm not preaching. I'm a freelancer too and in my job I basically live on the bones of my arse. As such, the CSU proposal means that we won't end up having to claim social welfare benefits in our old age. (Well, not too many, anyway.) So I suppose I basically agree with the idea. And don't forget - you have to be medically insured in Germany now as well. To that extent, the CSU proposal on retirement insurance is a merely logical extension of that.

 

 

 

 

However, the proposal would need to be worked out in greater detail. If you're self-employed, you currently have the option of - voluntarily - paying a monthly minimum of just €79.60 into the state system, which makes it a little more affordable. (Mind you, it would only buy you a pretty crappy state pension.) Is that - or private retirement insurance - an option for you?

 

 

 

 

 

My $NZ0.05.

 

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That freelancers should have to pay some sort of pension insurance is fully OK - and I do. But to try to fill gaps in a system overburdened with too many old people by making young working people pay even more - in my case so much more that I'd probably just opt to be unemployed and stay home with my kid (most people seem to say I should do that anyway.., as taking care of a kid is a lot of work.. - which it is..), is unfair, and in my concrete case, absurd. I'm not talking Harz IV either. I'd just stay home, get on my wife's health insurance, not have to pay tax, earn my €400 a month and probably work some black, AND my wife would have to pay less tax. We would take a financial hit for sure, but my existence would be less sysephean.. Because it's the absurdity of it all that's so frustrating. I don't want to be unemployed - I WANT to work, to pay my taxes, pay my health insurance, and pay my pension plan(and hopefully save some too..) When hearing this news report - and your're right, the details haven't been worked out yet - I just didn't like the tone of this beauracrat lobbing comments around about freelancers when he - and so many other people - have so little clue what it's like. I'm not as bad off as some of the greenie-seeking douchebags here try to make out. But it's like, once you clear one hurdle, two more bigger ones are put in your way. And when it happens, you ask why. And a big part of the reason is the demographic imbalance that has been so long talked about, but in the abstract, and my point is that it's no longer a mere academic topic, but affecting people concretely. I actually prefer being a freelancer btw, but IDK, now that a kid is in the equation, the lack of future security is kind of nerve-wracking.

 

In any event, let those here inane enough to care about reputation points continue with their reputation games. I may not have opened the discussion right(and yeah, had I known, would have put it in the rant section..), but I'm very comfortable with my basic insights to the system, and am equally sure that most people here will either see it more clearly in the future, or they'll be directly affected by it too, whether they are too dumb to actually understand it or not..

 

So go ahead and pile on some more reddies for me, and more greenies for the vacuous herdlings swinging by bent on accumulating them. Bad reputation points here in this forum, where the dominant topics of "discussion" are about how you pee or are you nuts even or whatever(with all the lame attempts at clever irony..), is as close to a sign that I'm on the right track as I'm likely to find, given who they're coming from. So bring'em on bitches.

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As I just said in a PM with someone with whom I've been having the type of conversation I intended, the pension system was designed for people to live, what, eight years after they retired? But they're living 20, with the accompanying ever higher spiralling health care costs. For the system, that is a problem. So OK, they say, well, make young people pay even more. To which I say, wait, the Rentners will have to make sacrifices too. Now here's where people will chime in and say "well, so and so Rentners barely get by.." And that is an issue that also pertains to the discussion of how burdens and benefits should be more fairly distributed. But to take just one random ex., I read something recently about Rentner groups being up in arms over suggestions that people should have to pay for EVERY doctor's visit, not just the €10 or whatever it currently is per quarter.. Lots of people here seem to be enjoying telling me to suck it up. Well, that would be one example where Rentners will have to suck it up..

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He's just one of those whining members of his generation who believe that the rest of the world owes him a living.

 

Halloooo! You have to work to earn a living, and if you think your stressful 12-hour week is doing that, then you're living in

 

post-19162-13253474648198.gif

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I say send all the Rentners to Lausitz, and fill up the Wohnblocks in towns like Hoyerswerda, make some nice resort type places for them to play bingo and shuffelboard, have lots of doctors and nurses, etc.. I.e. consolidiate.

 

And give Germany back to the young people, so it can have a future again.

 

Proposing to "warehouse" the elderly who've worked all their lives so he can have a better financial position in Germany makes me feel very uncomfortable. It's nonsensical. Who would want this for their parents?

 

I found this article interesting and learned after 2020 the number of people over 60 will be the largest demographic and it's projected to be this way until 2050. The age group 20-39 will have the fewer number of people.

 

There's another article about how older Germans are working part-time jobs in retirement because that's the only way they can make ends meet. Here's that article.

 

 

 

 

In 2029, Germans will only be entitled to a pension once they pass their 67th birthday, as the Federal Government decided in February 2006. This move is a response to the demographic calculations and the logic that, "If we are living longer, we must also work longer," as the pensions expert Axel Börsch-Supan puts it. It remains to be seen whether the German employment market will allow this to happen. At the moment, only 39 percent of all people aged between 55 and 64 in the Federal Republic of Germany are in gainful employment. T

 

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"A better financial position" as you put it means breaking even-ish(and thus not saving enough for the future..) Increase the burden on me - and others like me - and I go unemployed.

 

And that helps?

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If it means you can't afford internet access it definitely helps. Maybe not you...

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"A better financial position" as you put it means breaking even-ish. Increase the burden on me - and others like me - and I go unemployed.

 

And that helps?

 

Help?

 

What might help is you come to some acceptance the way Germany operates it's pension system and it employment structures is the way it is and you're not going to change it no matter how much you rant against it.

 

It's really a waste of energy, and as you can see you're not getting much support here on your propositions.

 

Have you ever considered perhaps Germany may not be the place for you if you feel you're getting shafted by the status quo.

 

I bet many of us have our own issues, struggles, and challenges living here in Germany, but we chose to deal with them in a different way, not complaining on TT.

 

What you've written on this thread about the elderly is preposterous.

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Do I really need to explain it again?.. That the system holding its thumb down ever harder on younger people to support them, and thereby forcing some of them out of the workforce altogehter - that is preposterous. Get it?

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Yet another meaty contribution in the quest to accumulate greenies.

 

So red me - after all it wasn't particularly clever or funny, just what went through my mind at the time.

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Do I really need to explain it again?.. That the system holding its thumb down ever harder on younger people to support them, and thereby forcing some of them out of the workforce altogehter - that is preposterous. Get it?

 

Germany will continue to support their elderly by giving them pensions and that's the right thing to do.

 

Why don't you go and occupy the Reichstag with your issue and see how far you get, instead of occupying TT with this.

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Germany will continue to support their elderly by giving them pensions and that's the right thing to do.

 

Germany and a number of other countries can't afford to keep giving pensions at the rate it is doing, because the whole Ponzi scheme will fall apart.

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@ Herr Dinksbumps:

 

You address another serious problem in Germany's state retirement insurance situation - it's known the "Generationvertrag" or the "generation agreement", where those currently paying into the state retirement insurance system are in fact paying the state pensions of today's pensioners. The situation is getting worse (i) because pensioners are living longer and (ii) because fewer people are being born, entering the workforce and paying into the state pension system.

 

I've never believed that the system we have here now is a good idea precisely because of the current demographic situation in Germany and, indeed, elsewhere in the world. Personally, I would prefer to see a state retirement insurance system where people pay their premiums into their own "state retirement insurance accounts", the same way you do with private retirement insurance. However, I'm not optimistic that that's going to happen any time soon, which makes it all the more important that we make private provision as well as, or instead of, paying into the state system.

 

But as I said in my last post, I think that we self-employed should be required to make some form of provision for our old age in order to not become a charge on the state. We'd have more money, too.

 

I also think your comments on funding for the medical insurance system pretty much hit the nail on the head. But I don't think the situation will affect just pensioners - we are ALL going to have to pay more for medical care in future. The only question is when. Your suggestion of having to pay a certain sum per visit is only one option. (In my view the quarterly practice fee here is far too low - I think it should be at least doubled.) The problem is that Germans have become used to just paying their monthly premiums and expecting that to be all they should have to pay. Well, current developments are proving this belief to be mistaken.

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Germany will continue to support their elderly by giving them pensions and that's the right thing to do.

 

The point is though, that there isn't (or won't be) enough money to do that, i.e. continue giving the elderly pensions.

 

And there'll be even less money when we're looking for it as pensioners because there will be even less young people working and paying the taxes to provide it. The system isn't working but I don't know what can be done about it. And although the thought of having to work for even longer than I once thought I'd end up having to is just downright depressing, on the other hand, I know people who retired when they were still well able to be working and who have been so bored they've become miserable, yet they cling to their cherished retirement and just get more miserable and bitter every year. Some pensioners have to take on mini-jobs or whatever just to make ends meet, other people retire before they really need to just because it's the done thing and still others would like to continue working but after they hit a certain (relatively young) age, if they don't have a very secure job, can't even get work. None of that really adds up either.

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@ Jeannie:

 

I imagine the only solution will be that we will all have to pay more out of our own pockets for things such as retirement and medical care - in addition to increased government subsidisation from tax revenue. Which may mean higher taxes.

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