The worldwide occupy movement

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Wealth Gap Between Young and Old Highest Ever

 

http://www.cnbc.com/id/45188794

 

The typical U.S. household headed by a person age 65 or older has a net worth 47 times greater than a household headed by someone under 35, according to an analysis of census data released Monday.

While people typically accumulate assets as they age, this wealth gap is now more than double what it was in 2005 and nearly five times the 10-to-1 disparity a quarter-century ago, after adjusting for inflation.

 

Occupy Grandma's.

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Wealth Gap Between Young and Old Highest Ever

 

http://www.cnbc.com/id/45188794

 

The typical U.S. household headed by a person age 65 or older has a net worth 47 times greater than a household headed by someone under 35, according to an analysis of census data released Monday.

While people typically accumulate assets as they age, this wealth gap is now more than double what it was in 2005 and nearly five times the 10-to-1 disparity a quarter-century ago, after adjusting for inflation.

 

That link is one of the issues presented by the OWS movement globally. The GAP between rich and poor is historic and it's not just in America, it's worldwide. And I can almost bet that your presence in Germany is giving you a skewed perspective of what is happening in America. Wait, Hear me out.

 

Germany has a socially democratic foundation and the businesses still MAKE things in that country. You have manufacturing and unions that protect your citizens, AND, this is huge, your government provides a safety net (as it should). A fair and decent one and some here would claim an expensive one. In contrast, in America, you are on your own with health care, transportation and making a liveable wage. How many homeless do you see in Germany compared to America? How many poor people do you actually see begging on the corners with signs that say - jobless, family of four and desperate? It's sad to see here and for a bleeding heart liberal like me, I get overwhelmed knowing that I can't help everyone I encounter that is suffering by no fault of their own).

 

The banks created those derivatives and then betted against them knowing full well they would fail eventually. The name of the movement OCCUPY Wall Street is because of that action and frankly, it took them 3 yrs to organize into something that caught on immediately. I know that hearing about the bankers obscene bonuses in the fall of '08 enraged me and I was surprised there was no backlash until now.

 

I have to agree that the OWS movement has accomplished changing the subject from debt ceilings to "hey, what about us? The 99% that didn't benefit from the bank robbery but are now asked not only to pay for their bailout with tax payer money but to continue to be asked to sacrifice their bargaining rights and their pensions while those bankers continue to get their obscene and undeserved bonuses."

 

The Warren Buffets of this world see that it's unfair that the middle class (what's left of them) and (growing number of) poor are being targeted to pay for the sins of the 1% and think their tax breaks should be ended. Good for him.

 

If anyone needs additional documentation about the 99%, why not read Naomi Klein's "Shock Doctrine" or watch Michael Moore's "Capitalism, A Love Story" movie. Or read Paul Krugman's weekly articles in the NYTimes who has stated for years now that the government's (auto bailout etc) response wasn't enough.

 

Things are so tight right now for families of the 99%, you can't cut social security or medicare or medicaid yet. You can propose to make adjustments several years out but to make cuts now could cause a violent uprising. Citizens are desperate for jobs, for health care and have nothing left to lose so protests will only grow in numbers.

 

I have much more to do today so I'll stop there and let you chew on that and add later if needed.

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Another article that highlights some of the points about healthcare in this country.

 

PBS - Dental Clinic

 

 

Horn had 21 of his teeth pulled. Just a drop in the bucket compared with the 900 extracted at the clinic that weekend.

 

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That link is one of the issues presented by the OWS movement globally. The GAP between rich and poor is historic and it's not just in America, it's worldwide. And I can almost bet that your presence in Germany is giving you a skewed perspective of what is happening in America. Wait, Hear me out.

 

Germany has a socially democratic foundation and the businesses still MAKE things in that country. You have manufacturing and unions that protect your citizens, AND, this is huge, your government provides a safety net (as it should). A fair and decent one and some here would claim an expensive one. In contrast, in America, you are on your own with health care, transportation and making a liveable wage. How many homeless do you see in Germany compared to America? How many poor people do you actually see begging on the corners with signs that say - jobless, family of four and desperate? It's sad to see here and for a bleeding heart liberal like me, I get overwhelmed knowing that I can't help everyone I encounter that is suffering by no fault of their own).

 

The banks created those derivatives and then betted against them knowing full well they would fail eventually. The name of the movement OCCUPY Wall Street is because of that action and frankly, it took them 3 yrs to organize into something that caught on immediately. I know that hearing about the bankers obscene bonuses in the fall of '08 enraged me and I was surprised there was no backlash until now.

 

I have to agree that the OWS movement has accomplished changing the subject from debt ceilings to "hey, what about us? The 99% that didn't benefit from the bank robbery but are now asked not only to pay for their bailout with tax payer money but to continue to be asked to sacrifice their bargaining rights and their pensions while those bankers continue to get their obscene and undeserved bonuses."

 

The Warren Buffets of this world see that it's unfair that the middle class (what's left of them) and (growing number of) poor are being targeted to pay for the sins of the 1% and think their tax breaks should be ended. Good for him.

 

If anyone needs additional documentation about the 99%, why not read Naomi Klein's "Shock Doctrine" or watch Michael Moore's "Capitalism, A Love Story" movie. Or read Paul Krugman's weekly articles in the NYTimes who has stated for years now that the government's (auto bailout etc) response wasn't enough.

 

Things are so tight right now for families of the 99%, you can't cut social security or medicare or medicaid yet. You can propose to make adjustments several years out but to make cuts now could cause a violent uprising. Citizens are desperate for jobs, for health care and have nothing left to lose so protests will only grow in numbers.

 

I have much more to do today so I'll stop there and let you chew on that and add later if needed.

 

Naomi Klein and Michael Moore as sources of information on serious topics? No wonder you don't understand the big picture.

 

I guess you will never understand demographics, but given the fall in birth rates after 1964, it was almost fait accompli that Social Security and Medicare were not going to be as generous in the future as in the past. Screaming that the top earners in the US aren't taxed enough isn't going to solve the problems of Medicare, which can't be solved by raising taxes on them.

 

I don't think protests against cuts in entitlements will turn violent, but if they do anyone dumb enough to commit violence will end up hurting themselves most of all. Once it becomes apparent that those cuts have to be made, threats of violence aren't going to be enough to stop them, since the alternative will be complete economic meltdown, a much worse outcome.

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The banks created those derivatives and then betted against them knowing full well they would fail eventually.

 

The name of the movement OCCUPY Wall Street is because of that action and frankly, it took them 3 yrs to organize into something that caught on immediately.

 

I know that hearing about the bankers obscene bonuses in the fall of '08 enraged me and I was surprised there was no backlash until now.

 

Not exactly.

 

No. The Tea Party organized around this very subject in 2009. You were still feigning over Obama and did not notice.

 

The bankers get their big bonuses at the end of the year. There was a huge backlash by a movement which you have consistently vilified. You would be honest to admit that you lost two years because you have been reading publications and watching networks which were and are extremely partisan.

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One of my brothers and my sister are devout Tea Partiers so I haven't ignored anything. I don't vote against my own interests or those of the 99%. And if you haven't read Naomi Klein or heard Michael Moore and dismiss them completely, then you're the fools. I guess you'd rather listen to FOX spews. Go ahead. Be misled, misinformed and partisan yourself. Whatever. Conky: You asked for my input and I made a huge effort and you'll see that I'll never bother again.

How about Robert Reich: Is he smart enough to quote?

Latest Article

 

 

Deficit hawks in both parties fear if we put off the spending cuts we'll never do them. But if we cut now, the ratio of deficit to the total economy just gets worse -- because the economy stagnates and the swelling ranks of unemployed don't pay taxes.

 

So the best of all worlds is to have a big jobs plan now, and also commit to automatic cuts triggered when unemployment falls to 5 percent.

To be clear, I would have liked Obama more if he'd proposed a jobs bill in 2008 and 9 and worked on health care reform after that but he didn't.

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moctoj, the constant complaints about the current level of income inequality not only largely ignore how it came about, but the also prescribe ineffective cures and don't focus on the real issue- absolute living standards rather than relative income, and preservation of a sustainable system of entitlements is a part of the discussion of absolute living standards.

 

Reich's suggestion won't work because it doesn't change the long-term incentives to hire, plus 5% is probably less than full employment these days and would take years to get to, if ever. We are already heavily indebted and can't afford to borrow lots more and additional massive spending to drive the unemployment rate down to 5% would likely end up in a Treasury market meltdown, or in a best-case scenario, a bout of heavy inflation.

 

Some food for thought: the Obama Administration promised a unemployment rate of no higher than 8% if the 800 billion USD stimulus bill passed. How much do you think it will take to get the unemployment rate down to 5%, or, better yet, a sustainable 5%? Given that we have a trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see, do you think those who lend us money are going to be amused about requests for trillions more? That's an example of what I mean about seeing the big picture.

 

A number of economists think the current economic malaise is due in large part to a lack of innovation, and I'd say that is part of the explanation.

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A number of economists think the current economic malaise is due in large part to a lack of innovation, and I'd say that is part of the explanation.

So, and why don't they innovate something other than theories?What is being innovated creates less jobs not more!Just imagine for every washing machine which is banned every woman would have a day's work every week ... for life. :rolleyes: How much work did the making of one washing machine provide? I visited Mexico once and had to pass some workers in a narrow street loading a truck using shovels. On the way home a few hours later they were still at it.I asked my wife if it wouldn't be better if they would use a bobcat and she replied: "but the workers need their income".So the 2 workers had their income but the truck could have made 10 trips and have been more productive for every one.Innovations are fine if everyone gets a benefit from it. But that is not so.IT was a great innovation and although I did not get a financial benefit out of it and I use it a lot, it supplies a lot of jobs for many people. Now ask the postal workers who got/get laid off by the thousands all over the world how they feel about it.I have not sent a personal letter in years.Or in my learned trade as a watchmaker, there are no watchmakers(repairers) to be seen anywhere anymore. it is cheaper to throw away and buy a new watch.Same may happen to the teachers.Why hire a teacher when you can teach via computer? All you need is sort of a baby sitter. Production has been shifted to low priced countries and sercive jobs have not been able to keep up with replacing production jobs.Cutting costs of money only made things worse as all the savers/retired people who thought they could live off their interest income have been cheated out of their planned livelyhood by the printers/creators of money.The values they had thought to have was cut down to a third. I can see it on the coffee counter how many snowbirds do not go south anymore,because their money is exhausted.Things never change in a hurry but the effects are felt eventually.Only hairbrained people think they can start an economy by printing more money.

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Gaberlunzi, you might find this commentary by former Intel CEO Andy Grove to be very illuminating: How America Can Create Jobs. He also addresses some of the negatives associated with offshoring, and offshoring has had a lot to do with increasing income inequality, certainly much more than the tax code we see blamed on TT when someone complains about income inequality. Treat the underlying symptoms if you want any semblance of a cure.

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So, and why don't they innovate something other than theories?What is being innovated creates less jobs not more!Just imagine for every washing machine which is banned every woman would have a day's work every week ... for life. How much work did the making of one washing machine provide? I visited Mexico once and had to pass some workers in a narrow street loading a truck using shovels. On the way home a few hours later they were still at it.I asked my wife if it wouldn't be better if they would use a bobcat and she replied: "but the workers need their income".So the 2 workers had their income but the truck could have made 10 trips and have been more productive for every one.Innovations are fine if everyone gets a benefit from it. But that is not so.IT was a great innovation and although I did not get a financial benefit out of it and I use it a lot, it supplies a lot of jobs for many people. Now ask the postal workers who got/get laid off by the thousands all over the world how they feel about it.I have not sent a personal letter in years.Or in my learned trade as a watchmaker, there are no watchmakers(repairers) to be seen anywhere anymore. it is cheaper to throw away and buy a new watch.Same may happen to the teachers.Why hire a teacher when you can teach via computer? All you need is sort of a baby sitter. Production has been shifted to low priced countries and sercive jobs have not been able to keep up with replacing production jobs.Cutting costs of money only made things worse as all the savers/retired people who thought they could live off their interest income have been cheated out of their planned livelyhood by the printers/creators of money.The values they had thought to have was cut down to a third. I can see it on the coffee counter how many snowbirds do not go south anymore,because their money is exhausted.Things never change in a hurry but the effects are felt eventually.Only hairbrained people think they can start an economy by printing more money.

 

Gaberlunzi you're great and all... but are you seriously advising that Mexico should be used as a model?

 

And don't you use "IT" to keep track of your dynasty and when to buy and sell your hordes of gold? ;)

 

And don't you think digital watches are more reliable, cheaper to produce and more versatile than their analog predecessors? Thus providing greater ROI?

For someone who's talented enough to repair watches I think it'd be relatively easy to retool.

 

(FYI) as someone "in IT" the "retooling" is a never-ending process, you do it for the art...

 

And the snowbirds, hey, maybe it's better to stay off the planes a bit, save the planet and all, you know? Think of the penguins, then can't fly south, though I'm sure they would like to winter in Cabo :D

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. but are you seriously advising that Mexico should be used as a model?

You can always wear gloves if you get blisters handling a shovel all day.But you have the joy of work B)

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Gaberlunzi, you might find this commentary by former Intel CEO Andy Grove to be very illuminating: How America Can Create Jobs. He also addresses some of the negatives associated with offshoring, and offshoring has had a lot to do with increasing income inequality, certainly much more than the tax code we see blamed on TT when someone complains about income inequality. Treat the underlying symptoms if you want any semblance of a cure.

 

That's a great article by Andy Grove. I read it when it appeared on the regular Bloomberg site.

 

This summarizes one of the most important ideas, IMHO

 

Consider this passage by Princeton University economist Alan S. Blinder: "The TV manufacturing industry really started here, and at one point employed many workers. But as TV sets became 'just a commodity,' their production moved offshore to locations with much lower wages. And nowadays the number of television sets manufactured in the U.S. is zero. A failure? No, a success."

I disagree. Not only did we lose an untold number of jobs, we broke the chain of experience that is so important in technological evolution. As happened with batteries, abandoning today's "commodity" manufacturing can lock you out of tomorrow's emerging industry.

 

One of the ideas that has been floated in the recent Steve Jobs biography (which i have not read), is that Apple did not build its manufacturing plants in the US due to regulations rather than costs. Perhaps it is a dubious claim, but also one that should prompt a look at the competitiveness of the regulatory structure in the US.

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This video is a couple of days old, taken at Occupy Berkeley. My jaw dropped after about 5 seconds of watching. Cops just skip the arrest part and commence with the beating.

 

 

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NYC Zuccotti Park was cleared today at 1am local time. Tear gas, sound bombs and riot police showed up to clear the park. Bloomberg is a coward.

 

NYTimes

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Greenwald on Bloomberg's actions (my bold):

 

 

UPDATE: A New York state judge this morning temporarily enjoined the city from keeping the protesters out of Zuccotti Park, but Mayor Bloomberg is simply ignoring the Order and deliberately breaking the law by refusing to allow them back in. Put another way, Bloomberg this morning has broken more laws than the hundreds of protesters who were arrested. But as we know, the law does not apply to the Michael Bloombergs of the nation; the law, instead, has simply been exploited into a weapon used by the politically and financially powerful to prevent challenges to their standing.

 

Could #OWS have scripted a more apt antagonist than this living, breathing personification of oligarchy: a Wall Street billionaire who so brazenly purchased his political office, engineered the overturning of a term-limits referendum and then spent more than $100 million of his person fortune to stay in power, and now resides well above the law?

 

UPDATE II: To justify his raid, Mayor Bloomberg said: ”We must never be afraid to insist on compliance with our laws.” Leaving aside the fact that torturers, illegal eavesdroppers, wagers of aggressive war, Wall Streets defrauders, and mortgate thieves are some of his best friends who thrive and profit rather than sit in a jail cell, this is the same Mayor Bloomberg who, now beyond all dispute, is knowingly and deliberately breaking the law by violating a Court Order of which he is well aware. He’d be arrested for that if he weren’t a billionaire Mayor. Today really is the most vivid expression seen in quite some time of the two-tiered justice system I wrote my book to highlight; the real criminals are not only shielded from the law’s mandates, but affirmatively use it as an instrument to entrench themselves in power and protect their ill-gotten gains.

 

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This video is a couple of days old, taken at Occupy Berkeley. My jaw dropped after about 5 seconds of watching. Cops just skip the arrest part and commence with the beating.

Cops are cunts the world over.

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One of the ideas that has been floated in the recent Steve Jobs biography (which i have not read), is that Apple did not build its manufacturing plants in the US due to regulations rather than costs.

 

Damn age and wage regulations have ruined American manufacturing. Bring Your Child to Work Day only solves 1/365th of our problem. Morans.

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I know you conservatives on this board don't like it when I reference Keith Olberman but he provided a perfect rebuttal to Bloomberg's attack on Zuccotti Park Monday night. Current Tv.

 

You Tube

 

 

Who else but a hypocrite like Bloomberg could have overridden by backroom-deal with the New York City Council, the results of two separate referendums limiting those in his office to just two terms as Mayor, so he could serve a third term, and then had his police arrest, beat up, and incarcerate, a member of the New York City Council?...

 

Michael Bloomberg is the 12th richest man in America, which is a reminder that money can't buy you love, brains, or foresight.

 

Quardian link

 

 

New York police attempted to impose a media blackout as they cleared Occupy Wall Street protesters from Zuccotti Park late last night.

 

As police swooped on the park in the early hours of Tuesday, the city closed airspace in lower Manhattan to prevent news helicopters taking aerial shots of the scene. Vans were used to obscure views of the park and a police cordon effectively blocked accredited media from reaching the site. Some of those members of the press who were in the park or were able to get there say they were arrested, pepper sprayed or treated aggressively.

 

One of the few reporters on the scene when the police moved in was Josh Harkinson, a writer for Mother Jones magazine. As police used tear gas to remove the last protesters from the park Harkinson identified himself as a member of the media and was physically dragged out of the park. He was told that reporters had to stay in a "press pen".

 

Reporters tweeted their frustration using the hashtag #mediablackout and said police were ignoring and even confiscating press passes.

 

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Michael Bloomberg was a Democrat until it became easier to win the Mayor's office as a Republican. He is extremely socially liberal and Olbermann's polemic is a bit ridiculous actually.

 

Speaking of billionaire oligarchs (or crony capitalists if you like),

 

Revealed: Warren Buffett Helped Shape Bailout Rules, Then Made Massive Profits from Them

 

http://ibankcoin.com/news/2011/11/15/revealed-warren-buffett-helped-shape-bailout-rules-then-made-massive-profits-from-them/

 

From the same author who inspired this 60 Minutes Story

 

Congress: Trading stock on inside information?

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-57323527/congress-trading-stock-on-inside-information/

 

Hope the Occupiers saw these and noticed the MF Global heist.

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moctoj, were you really impressed with Olbermann's ad hominem rant about Bloomberg?

 

The Occupy types are too enamored with the act of protesting itself and have not been able to define clear objectives and focus on achieving them. Until they do they are wasting their time.

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