Sufficient salary ranges in and around Munich

1,022 posts in this topic

8 hours ago, Theruinsofbeverast said:

Dear all,

 

I have got an offer to go back to Munich for 90K€/year+12% yearly bonus.

 

I once lived Munich from 2006 in 2011 and in 2010 I made 91K€ including bonus so I am wondering whether this offer is aligned to actual living costs in Munich. 

 

I have a family of 3 + 1 unborn baby soon to come and frankly speaking I have no idea about current costs of flats and kindergardens.

 

So the ultimate question is: 90K€ or 100K€ (assuming that the bonus is always achieved fully) is enough for running a family of 4?

 

thanks

 

Depends on how expensive your kids are.

Are they going to public school or using private kindergartens?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here in Naples my boy goes to a private school which is totally affordable.

But I know private schools in Germany are very expensive, so the question is: do I really need to send my 3yo boy to a private school rather to a public one?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you might have no choice.

 

public kita and kindergarten seats are VERY hard to come by in many areas of Munich.  I'd say half the parents I know with preschool aged kids have them in private kitas/kindergartens as they simply could not get into a public school.

 

one is desperately looking for a kindergarten for his kid, as he's outgrown the kita, and he can't even get into any of the private kindergartens he's applied to so far as they are already booked out.  It's bad.  Really bad.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/3/2019, 7:39:19, WanWhiteWolf said:

For example: 150K apartment 1 room. You put 30k down and 120k from the bank. 

 

You pay 1k per month. At a 0.9 - 1% interest rate (you can even get lower), you are looking at 5-6k interest in 10 years.  

 

Assuming you pay all taxes yourself In total you pay 150K + 5.2k (sell tax) + 3k (notary) + 5k (real estate agent). You are looking at 160k payment. 

 

A 1 room apartment is around 800 Euro / month. You can average 400 euro for taxes (nebenkosten, hausegeld ..etc). Means for every rent payment you "lose" 400 Euro -> 4800 Euro / year -> 48000 Euro in 10 years. 

 

I'm sorry but I have to point out:  there is no way in HELL you're going to buy an apartment anywhere around Munich for 150k.  Try 250 - 300k in munich proper, MAYBE 200k farther afield.  yes, even for one room, around 30 qm (give or take)

 

and in areas where you can buy a single room for 150k, you ain't going to get 800/month cold.  And you do NOT "lose" 400 euros per month on nebenkosten unless you're living there yourself.  And on a one room apartment, it's more like 200 max unless the energy efficiency is totally abysmal.  If it's rented, the tenant pays most of that.  And who, pray tell, will be paying the taxes on sale if not the owner?!

 

seriously.  this is nothing but voodoo real estate advice.  Just complete fantasy.

 

 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, lisa13 said:

 

I'm sorry but I have to point out:  there is no way in HELL you're going to buy an apartment anywhere around Munich for 150k.  Try 250 - 300k in munich proper, MAYBE 200k farther afield.  yes, even for one room, around 30 qm (give or take)

 

I am paying for a 30 sqm apartment 150k. In two weeks we have the notary appointment. I can blank the private data and send you the contract if you think this is so extraterrestrial. Or you can simply join to the "opening" party. A colleague of mine also bought in Mosach 32 sqm for 166k in April. Yes, it is not going to be a new build. And yes you have to search a bit for it. Where did you take the prices from? 

 

A search on one of the real estate websites: 

 

https://www.immobilienscout24.de/Suche/S-T/Wohnung-Kauf/Bayern/Muenchen/-/-/-/EURO--200000,00?enteredFrom=result_list  

 

...gives me 40 results of apartments under 200k. Some of them are on the market for months now - I know because they were there on April when I looked. Typically what you find on the market are the apartments that do not sell. Good offers pass fairly quickly. As any major investment, you have to spend some time on it to find the best offer. 

 

1 hour ago, lisa13 said:

and in areas where you can buy a single room for 150k, you ain't going to get 800/month cold.  And you do NOT "lose" 400 euros per month on nebenkosten unless you're living there yourself.  And on a one room apartment, it's more like 200 max unless the energy efficiency is totally abysmal.  If it's rented, the tenant pays most of that.  And who, pray tell, will be paying the taxes on sale if not the owner?!

 

I was just making a comparison between paying 800 Euros warm per month VS buying the apartment. If you own an apartment you still have to pay the Hausgeld, Nebenkosten and various insurances. For an older building you can expect between 300-400 Euro per month. Thus, you can save 400 Euros by having the apartment versus paying the rent. 

 

1 hour ago, lisa13 said:

And who, pray tell, will be paying the taxes on sale if not the owner?!

 

 

The answer was in the quote you put.I have to assume you didn't read it. Look, I will put it in "c code" format for you :D

Assuming you pay all taxes yourself In total you pay 150K + 5.2k (sell tax) + 3k (notary) + 5k (real estate agent). You are looking at 160k payment.  

 

1 hour ago, lisa13 said:

seriously.  this is nothing but voodoo real estate advice.  Just complete fantasy.

 

I was just saying how I did it and how a colleague of mine did it - who is also the one which gave me the idea in the first place. I couldn't care less if anyone else does it. 

 

Or maybe we are both magicians and we don't know. :ph34r:

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, WanWhiteWolf said:

...gives me 40 results of apartments under 200k.

 

yes, which are under erbbaurecht (ok for some if you're not interested in a lasting investment, but you have to be really careful), farther afield (do you know where Hasenbergl is?  I don't), already rented (which may or may not be ok, depending on rendite and/or your appetite for the risks and joys of claiming eigenbedarf), and/or round about 20 qm, not 30.

 

ffs one is SIXTEEN qm.  in moosach.  and 165 at that.  

 

eta: so yes, technically you are correct, for less than 200k you CAN buy an apartment that doesn't really belong to you and will lose value in the grand scheme of things, tie you to an existing tenant/rent, require legal proceedings to take it over, or is just the right size to store your clothes and sleep in and nothing more.

 

yay.

 

I take my pricing from the immo sites as well.  but I focus on apartments that are actually worth buying.  there's a reason those have been on the market for months.  

 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, WanWhiteWolf said:

 

I am paying for a 30 sqm apartment 150k. In two weeks we have the notary appointment. I can blank the private data and send you the contract if you think this is so extraterrestrial. Or you can simply join to the "opening" party. A colleague of mine also bought in Mosach 32 sqm for 166k in April. Yes, it is not going to be a new build. And yes you have to search a bit for it. Where did you take the prices from? 

 

A search on one of the real estate websites: 

 

https://www.immobilienscout24.de/Suche/S-T/Wohnung-Kauf/Bayern/Muenchen/-/-/-/EURO--200000,00?enteredFrom=result_list  

 

...gives me 40 results of apartments under 200k. 

 

Wow, it’s rare to see someone failing so miserably at providing evidence. I’m looking forward to your next topic: what is erbbau and how to get rid of my mieter.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Theruinsofbeverast said:

Here in Naples my boy goes to a private school which is totally affordable.

But I know private schools in Germany are very expensive, so the question is: do I really need to send my 3yo boy to a private school rather to a public one?

Let's put it like this: a German colleague and his working wife, both with PHDs, dressed on their best suites to convince a private Kindergarten to accept their kid. The private is around 800€ per month for 8h.

You won't get a place on a public one.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/7/2019, 19:53:35, catjones said:

                                               why do people ask such open-ended, non-specifics, over-generalized questions?

 

and, second, if the answers all say "no", are you going to decline the offer, give up your search and stay in Italy?

Dear catjones,

 

I am here to get help and not gratuitous criticism and I really fail to understand why you felt so compelled to throw such comment. Why didn't you just ignore my quest?

 

wish you all the best

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

Let's put it like this: a German colleague and his working wife, both with PHDs, dressed on their best suites to convince a private Kindergarten to accept their kid. The private is around 800€ per month for 8h.

You won't get a place on a public one.

Dear Mike

 

thanks for your reply, this is in line with what I collected from friends and ex-colleagues still living in Munich.

The whole school/pre-school thing really puts me off.

 

ciao

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Theruinsofbeverast said:

Dear Mike

 

thanks for your reply, this is in line with what I collected from friends and ex-colleagues still living in Munich.

The whole school/pre-school thing really puts me off.

 

ciao

 

In the nearby suburban areas it is a bit easier and your life can be even better than in Munich if you plan adequately your access to public transportation, time to work, etc. The towns to the south of Munich, for example,  offer a truly great quality of living for families: lots of green spaces, close to the florest and lakes and less populational density and polution.

 

You also have to plan your arrival. The time to apply for a Kindergarten place (presentially, not over the phone from wherever you are) is until March/April, in June they decide which and how many children to take and it's too late to apply. If you arrive in September or Dezember and ask for a place they'll most likely look at you funny.

 

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Theruinsofbeverast one thought:  have you asked your prospective employer if they have their own preschool facilities, or if they contract with a school that will give you preferential admission?  

 

Some of the larger companies (eg BMW) offer such facilities - it's worth asking if in doubt.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/3/2019, 9:37:40, MikeMelga said:

150k + 9k (interest, 1.5%) + 5.2k (sell tax) + 3k (notar) + 0.75k Grundbucheintrag + 7k (agent) = 175k€

 

Yeah, but in the meantime, you can take those 175k€ and invest. And that is what most people forget! You need to compare with what you would invest! As an example, the average yearly return of stock markets since 1926 was over 10%! 

Let's say you are cautious and invest just 50k. At an average return rate, you would have 130k€ in 10 years.

 

And if you say that 10% per year is not real, I've had 30% yearly in the past 2 years.

 

 

Because of Quantative easing.

 

What happens if Central banks stops artificially inflating the stock market? 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, RenegadeFurther said:

 

Because of Quantative easing.

 

What happens if Central banks stops artificially inflating the stock market? 

 

Worst case the market may colapse and it will be a great time to invest even more. The stock market will in the long term continue to go up like it has always done since its invention. Or society colapses and never recovers in which case nothing really matters.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, RenegadeFurther said:

 

Because of Quantative easing.

 

What happens if Central banks stops artificially inflating the stock market? 

Worst case (full recession) you loose up to 30%, on average for the full stock market.

If you get out before it dips so much, you just have to stop investing for some time and pick the opportunity when the market overreacts. I did that in 2008 and doubled my money in 1 year. Too bad I only had 4k€ available to invest back then...

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/7/2019, 11:09:20, lisa13 said:

@Theruinsofbeverast one thought:  have you asked your prospective employer if they have their own preschool facilities, or if they contract with a school that will give you preferential admission?  

 

Some of the larger companies (eg BMW) offer such facilities - it's worth asking if in doubt.

 

Hi Lisa, unfortunately the guys have no preschool facilities, in exchange they will help me search for one as for relocation package

thanks

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Theruinsofbeverast said:

 

Hi Lisa, unfortunately the guys have no preschool facilities, in exchange they will help me search for one as for relocation package

thanks

 

that's something, at least. I hope it all works out for you!

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/7/2019, 20:12:41, lisa13 said:

 

I'm sorry but I have to point out:  there is no way in HELL you're going to buy an apartment anywhere around Munich for 150k.  Try 250 - 300k in munich proper, MAYBE 200k farther afield.  yes, even for one room, around 30 qm (give or take)

 

and in areas where you can buy a single room for 150k, you ain't going to get 800/month cold.  And you do NOT "lose" 400 euros per month on nebenkosten unless you're living there yourself.  And on a one room apartment, it's more like 200 max unless the energy efficiency is totally abysmal.  If it's rented, the tenant pays most of that.  And who, pray tell, will be paying the taxes on sale if not the owner?!

 

seriously.  this is nothing but voodoo real estate advice.  Just complete fantasy.

 

 

Untill the market will (badly) crash like history has always reached.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, karmakoma said:

Untill the market will (badly) crash like history has always reached.

 

Oh of course that's very helpful. 

 

I was not talking about some theoretical time in the future, but the present.  Maybe you can tell us when that crash is going to come so we can all be prepared, eh?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just had a phone interview for a “Software lead” position. All went well until the salary expectation part. 

 

I asked 90k. I am already earning 80k as an “Senior Software Engineer” with no team management responsibility. They said that even 65k would be above average and that my expectation is unrealistic. 

 

Glassdoor seems to confirm what they say but I find the information hard to believe. On payscale I see conflicting information. 

 

Do software leading roles really go for 60k? 

 

 

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now