Sufficient salary ranges in and around Munich

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This has been a very productive thread. Thank you to yknott for the link and especially to YSL and PandaMunich for all of the detailed explanations. You two have proven to be a tremendous asset to me in my endeavor to familiarize myself with many things German, albeit anonymously.

 

I have two questions. The first is a short question regarding taxes. Assuming I receive and accept an offer there would be four of us moving over, my wife who will become unemployed by this move and our two children who are 2 and 3; they’re also unemployed, lazy American children. Am I correct in my figuring that this places us into tax category IV? I’ve got a pretty good idea of most of the costs of living et. al. from researching this forum but I have not been able to get a good grasp of the tax cost estimates. I’ve been using %50 for rough calculations. From this and other threads it looks like this is a good first rough cut but I may be overestimating.

 

My second question regards salary and is a bit more detailed. Disclaimer: I know that by asking this question I am automatically enrolling into the newbie Dork of the Month Club and am eligible to receive any and all benefits entitled to members thereof. But I can’t find any recent posts that address the aerospace industry specifically so it’s worth the abuse. Just use a good picture on the membership card huh?

 

The position is with a multinational aerospace corporation as an “Operational manager of a team of managers”. Maybe I am going to be a glorified chai wallah? I don’t know, these are their words not mine. Anywho, I am looking for a realistic salary range for a person with the following qualifications: US aerospace engineer with 11 years industry experience which includes several high-profile projects and 7 years hands-on machining experience of high tolerance parts. The latter only includes low-profile anonymous projects but they were just as important. Said individual holds a Bachelors of Science degree in aerospace engineering and a Master’s of Science degree in civil engineering. Both degrees focus on structures and structural analysis and both are from a California state university, no fine pedigree here.

 

I found this thread referencing an article covering the “Minimum Salary Requirement for Highly-SkilledMigrantWorkers in another thread but I’m not sure what experience level this applies to. Luke Skywalker posted this link but I was still unable to find an answer to the experience level question. It seemed like the €66K figure was a generic lower threshold and regardless this number seemed to be more applicable to residence permits rather than employment in general.

 

H

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Yes, you would be in tax class 4. I suggest you sign up for public health insurance, coming from the US you only have a one-off right to join public health insurance at the time you first start a job in Germany. With your constellation, 2 kids and wife at home, it would make sense to go public since then your insurance contribution would automatically cover the whole family. Please read this thread and pay special attention to the posts by gail123.

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And can I say, being on public insurance right now (with an additional dental) is like heaven on earth. The first time I walked in to discover that I don't even need to pay a quarterly fee for the kids was incredible. And then multiple visits for a wart removal for my daughter- no fee. And this week my hausartzt explained to me that my 10euro quarterly fee covered all the doctors I would see!

 

Now if only I could straighten out a good neighborhood in Munich, with a good Grundschule and an affordable 3-4 br with a garden...

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"It seemed like the €66K figure was a generic lower threshold and regardless this number seemed to be more applicable to residence permits rather than employment in general. "

 

The deal for highly skilled (and highly paid) migrant workers is that you can basically qualify for the equivalent of a green card (permanent residence permit) from the start, instead of having to wait 5 years to apply for that. For employment, it's important for some of us as it eliminates the requirement for a work permit.

 

If you can qualify salary wise, I think you should apply for it. It will make life a lot easier.

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Hi Hank,

 

I think that 45% taxes are a little bit more accurate. Did you check this Calculator?

 

Americans find it probably very high, but do you have 30 paid holidays back home :)?

 

Are you looking at companies like EADS and ESA by any chance? I'm not sure if they hire Americans. Most of the people I know there are EU citizens. Check this out first before you start lengthy applications there.

 

IMO, € 66K is not a problem with your qualifications.

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Please read this thread and pay special attention to the posts by gail123.

 

Thanks again. Good reading here.

 

 

The deal for highly skilled (and highly paid) migrant workers is that you can basically qualify for the equivalent of a green card (permanent residence permit) from the start, instead of having to wait 5 years to apply for that. For employment, it's important for some of us as it eliminates the requirement for a work permit.

 

The "instant" permanent residence permit is what I would prefer. Aerospace is a feast or famine industry. A PRP would act as a buffer in sorts if I did find myself out of work involuntarily.

 

 

Hi Hank,

 

I think that 45% taxes are a little bit more accurate. Did you check this Calculator?

 

Americans find it probably very high, but do you have 30 paid holidays back home?

 

Are you looking at companies like EADS and ESA by any chance? I'm not sure if they hire Americans. Most of the people I know there are EU citizens. Check this out first before you start lengthy applications there.

 

IMO, € 66K is not a problem with your qualifications.

 

Thanks again Luke. Yes this is the link I referenced at the beginning of my first post. The %50 was the number I used when just doing rough math. Knowing now that Class IV is correct I can use this tool with a little more confidence in the results; GIGO you know. And no, %45 doesn't seem so high to me. I lived in CA for many years there was little ROI from what you paid there. Yes 30 paid holidays would be nice; I currently get 10 holidays paid, and we end up working some of those anyhow, and three weeks vacation which you may or may not have to fight to take.

 

The application process at EADS/ESA did not seem that lengthy to me. They are the ones currently expressing interest.

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Yes, you would be in tax class 4. I suggest you sign up for public health insurance, coming from the US you only have a one-off right to join public health insurance at the time you first start a job in Germany. With your constellation, 2 kids and wife at home, it would make sense to go public since then your insurance contribution would automatically cover the whole family. Please read this thread and pay special attention to the posts by gail123.

 

Hi Panda,

 

I had come across this post before, but in a much less educated state than now, and as such had promptly forgotten about it. It is now marked for future reference. I have now read, not perused, through the post referenced above and I got confused by the second paragraph in john_g's posting. I assume this is due to the change in §9 SGB V (=Social Security Code) effective from 1.1.2011 or am I getting this backwards now?

 

I'll continue to re-read the referenced post but honestly I'll need to print it out, read it another time or two and then use a highlighter to ensure I'm getting all of the salient points correct. It is dense with useful information and I'm still a bit of a luddite when it comes to reading; I prefer paper copies, the highlighter never comes off the monitor you know! All said I'll need to arrange a meeting with several agents prior to making any decisions regarding insurance. I'm not sure I'll ever fully understand the system but I'll give it a go; FYI I still don't understand the "system" in the US either.

 

lisa13,

 

Thanks for clarifying that it is 30 vacations days and holidays. I was thinking he meant 30 holidays and vacation. Still this beats what we have here by a long shot. I will never, in my current position, be eligible for anything more than four weeks vacation. That great day will arrive in 18 years.

 

Thanks, H

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Americans and other non-EU citizens ( if freelancing, self-employed, new in Germany, not being in an EU public system in the recent past ) do NOT qualify for public insurance and MUST take out private care. How many more times do we independent brokers on Toytown have to point that out?

 

 

 

I assume this is due to the change in §9 SGB V (=Social Security Code) effective from 1.1.2011

John was talking about Americans who will be freelancers in Germany, i.e. self-employed.

§9 SGB V only allows employees (of whatever nationality) into German public health insurance when they first take up employment in Germany, not anyone self-employed.

The key word in §9 SGB V is "Beschäftigung", which translates to "being an employee".

 

Self-employed can only become voluntary members of German public health insurance if they can prove that they had been members of a public health insurance for at least 24 months out of the last 5 years. I think very few Americans could fulfill that condition, so American self-employed are virtually excluded from German public health insurance.

 

The change in law means that you (being an employee) can now get into public health insurance, but you have only one chance to do so, when you first start working in Germany.

 

Should you choose private health insurance when you start working here, there will be no way back into public health insurance for you and your family, short of taking a pay cut and suddenly earning a gross yearly salary of 50,850€ (= Versicherungspflichtgrenze 2012) or below.

 

 

All said I'll need to arrange a meeting with several agents prior to making any decisions regarding insurance.

Give insurance agents a wide berth, they are tied to just one insurance company and won't have your best interests at heart. They just want to sign you up with the insurance that gives them the highest commission, however unsuited it may be to your needs.

 

What you want are insurance brokers, i.e. independent insurance advisers who offer insurances from all insurance companies and who you can hold accountable for the advice they give. We have two who regularly contribute on Toytown, Starshollow aka Patrick Ott (near Munich) and john g. aka John Gunn (Hamburg).

 

 

Thanks for clarifying that it is 30 vacations days and holidays.

About the free days, 2 legal holidays will fall on week days in 2012. Add to that the legal minimum holiday (set down by law) of 25 days (although 28 days are more common in contracts), and you are looking at at least 37 free days in 2012.

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Sorry to jump onto the end of a discussion but I have a question regarding net salary and whether I can afford to live in Munich - I have been offered a monthly net of between 1,700 and 1,800.

 

From the dicussions it looks like this would be rather (extremely?) tight in Munich - I am single but would prefer not to live in a shoebox! I also have a lot of work experience including over seven years in my current industry so am thinking that this is not a great offer....

 

Any thoughts anyone?

 

Thanks :)

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I can't comment on whether the salary suits you, your experience, or the job, but I'd say many single people here would die for 1700€/month net.

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How could anyone possibly answer that question when you don't even give the industry you're working in. If you're a hair dresser, then it's a good wage. If you're an Engineer, it's a bad one.

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That figure means about €3000 gross/month which is slightly above average German earnings, IIRC. It probably won't allow you a very big apartment in München though.

 

Hmmm... just quickly looking online, average German wages seem to be about €3300 gross/month atm.

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Thanks for your answers guys and sorry :S I should have been clearer - I wasn't asking if it was a good offer (that was more my own train of thought), I was really trying to get a feel for whether it was sufficient to live on in the city (get an apartment, pay the bills, shop for food and have some left over) A lot of previous posts have talked about the high cost of living in Munich and without being there it's difficult to guage.

 

Obviously I know it all depends on personal spending habits so was just trying to get a better idea...

 

Cheers :)

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1700 Euro is plenty even for Munich. Unless you are paying off a huge amount of debt, of course or want to go out to P1 and drink champagne every day of the week.

 

Depends on your lifestyle, are you someone who wants to go out, eat out lots...?

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Honestly i am very confused reading OP's post. For a person with MS in Computer Science with 8+ years or experience he should be getting much more. I may be wrong but from what i have heard from my seniors (Im studying Electrical Engineering at TU), they get starting in the range 48K to (if lucky enough) 52K. Or does it greatly depends on the company itself or they check which university you graduated from?

 

What i have heard that for a start Germany is a good place but for long term it is NOT, as you get little increments compared to if you are working in the US, wondering if it is true or just a myth?

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Hi,

I have 4 yrs prior experience in Automotive industry before i came to pursue my Masters in Europe. Now having done with interviews with BMW and expected some kind of answer within next few weeks so wanted to know what kind of salary to expect from BMW for a 35 hr/wk as a Automotive Software Engineer?

 

Suggestions would be really appreciated.

Regards

Pavan

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Hi,

 

My husband is Visual designer(10 yrs of experience..of which 2 yrs in UAE) in a company based in UAE and he got an offer to work in a company based in Munich. When it came to the part of salary and other benefits, we are clueless on what and how much to ask. We dont know the european market and few advertisements on the web for the same position offerd EUR 70,000-80,000

 

We have a family to support in India and i am currently searching for job... We dont have friends or relatives to gather information... I checked most of the topics in the forum and could not come to a conclusion...

 

Please advice on what to expect as salary and benefits for his role and moderate cost of living in Munich for a couple...

 

Thank you very much...

 

[adminmerge][/adminmerge]

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Please advice on what to expect as salary and benefits for his role and moderate cost of living in Munich for a couple

If the future company of your husband takes care of the required work permit, it doesn't necessarily mean that you are allowed to work in Germany as well. In most cases it isn't. You need to sort that out first. Then, you must determine your tax category, also depending on children or not. There is lots of info on this on TT.

 

In the UAE there are virtually no taxes, so prepare for the worst in Germany :). How much money do you want to send back to India?

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