Sufficient salary ranges in and around Munich

1,015 posts in this topic

4 hours ago, LukeSkywalker said:

The offer is too low, IMO. The rents went up quicker than the salaries in Munich.

He does not specifz his position, but in general I also think it is a bit low.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, lisa13 said:

I always wanted to be a subway driver!!!

I want to wear a mouth cap and white gloves and push people in the subway like they do in Tokyo 👻.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The position is Snr Test Engineer. Including the bonus, annual is ~80k. Company is > 10k employees worldwide. 

 

What is the acceptable range?

Thinking long-term, how hard it is to buy properties in munich e.g. cars, house?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, tokwatbaboy said:

Thinking long-term, how hard it is to buy properties in munich e.g. cars, house?

Buying a property in Munich can be your worst mistake. Saw an article a few months ago where it stated that Munich is by far the worst place in Germany to invest in a house.

The house market is much more overvalued than the rent market.

 

As an example, I could not afford to buy the house that I am currently renting. It would take me 40-50 years to pay for it, which does not make any sense in the 21st century. The world changes too fast to make such long decisions.

 

Then some naive people will tell you that it is a good investment because it will value well over the years. But that only makes sense as an investment if you plan to exit the city within 10 years. Otherwise, you sell it with a profit, but then you need to live somewhere within the city, right?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, tokwatbaboy said:

The position is Snr Test Engineer. Including the bonus, annual is ~80k. Company is > 10k employees worldwide. 

Not 100% familiar with your specific job, but assuming that it is a SW test engineer, it looks like a good/very good salary. Most SW developers are earning below that. Only Snr SW developers go above 80k. And AFAIK developers make a bit more than testers.

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

Not 100% familiar with your specific job, but assuming that it is a SW test engineer, it looks like a good/very good salary. Most SW developers are earning below that. Only Snr SW developers go above 80k. And AFAIK developers make a bit more than testers.

 

It 90% the same as sw test but the difference is it is on hw side e.g. microcontrollers, integrated circuits.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

25 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

Buying a property in Munich can be your worst mistake. Saw an article a few months ago where it stated that Munich is by far the worst place in Germany to invest in a house.

The house market is much more overvalued than the rent market.

 

As an example, I could not afford to buy the house that I am currently renting. It would take me 40-50 years to pay for it, which does not make any sense in the 21st century. The world changes too fast to make such long decisions.

 

Then some naive people will tell you that it is a good investment because it will value well over the years. But that only makes sense as an investment if you plan to exit the city within 10 years. Otherwise, you sell it with a profit, but then you need to live somewhere within the city, right?

Wow! Does it really takes that long? So buying an apartment is not advisable also?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One more question, the contract does not mentioned any probationary period: does that mean I won,t go to probationary period or it is automatic to go on this period?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/20/2011, 2:37:27, YorkshireLad6 said:

 

Not according to my calculation - I make it nearer 2500 if you are single, without kids, and don't pay church tax. This includes all social deductions, pension and health insurance. And as I explained above, I think it's perfectly adequate to live on, in reasonable style, even in Munich.

I earn €54k a year, i live with my girlfriend,unmarried and have 1 child, i work a shift which i get schichtzuschlag (this won't affect you) i take home between €2600 and €2700 a month depending on how many days are in the month and how many of those i have worked the specific shift, i stay on this shift because it pays more money and the shift money isn't taxable.

 

As for quality of life, i like living here but it can be a pain in the arse, obviously living in Munich itself is expensive, everything costs, Germans can be stressed out Mon-Fri, and even on a Saturday because they have to cram the weekly shopping into that day due to no shops being open on a Sunday, Germany has it's upside and downsides, its what you make of it that will make or break you here...

 

A 6kg Turkey here for example cost €60, the same in Scotland £24 :ph34r: as said, it can be expensive here, so take London prices as an example  

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

another question is church tax. Can I assume that only the earner has church tax or the whole family members?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, tokwatbaboy said:

another question is church tax. Can I assume that only the earner has church tax or the whole family members?

 

Put simply, if either you or your wife are "members of the church", as defined by the church (whether or not you attend or believe doesn't count, does the church consider you a member?) then both will pay a percentage of your income to rome.

Depends of course which church we are talking about but for the most part it's Catholics that end up paying as evangelicals are less centralised and being a member of one church doesn't commit you to worldwide oversight by the Borg.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 26.12.2018, 12:57:46, tokwatbaboy said:

Wow! Does it really takes that long? So buying an apartment is not advisable also?

 

You might not have that many options at Munich 2019 prices, unless you bring substantial funds and are prepared to sink 10% in fees upfront on top (sales tax and agent and legal fees).   With an average price of 6,500 Euro per square metre now, and a typical family home being pushing 100 sq m or more, these are significant numbers even at the more affordable end.    And there's a relatively restricted supply compared to many places.

 

It work as a money dump perhaps (and there is a lot of that happening across Germany) but perhaps less so otherwise.   The market is distorted currently by capital flows.    My o/h has his main home there but - same line as above - he could not afford 2018 prices either.   Neither could I where I live   On the other hand, after than 10 year period mentioned, our next generation just looks to other places that are much cheaper.  If you wanted a place to buy property heading into 2018 on standard "professional" income, you would typically not look to Munich to deliver that, right now. 

 

The London comparison is also valid.   Munich is Germany's nearest London equivalent in terms of economics from the UK side.   You are looking to enter the top end city in one of the richest nations on earth: its London, Paris, Moscow...

 

In my view, Germany is moving the professional middle class into pure economic migration now as it becomes more unequal.  Same deal the lowerpaid "guest worker" was given in the past.   Come to do the work if you like.   Take what on offer here but expect far fewer of the lifestyle bells and whistles: be it owning cheap property, easily accessible universal childcare (as per other threads) or lots lots more.   That train left the station with the financial crash.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/26/2018, 12:57:46, tokwatbaboy said:

 

Wow! Does it really takes that long? So buying an apartment is not advisable also?

Leave the XX'th century house ownership mentality at the door, take an Excel sheet and do the math. For Munich, it is very simple: DON'T BUY!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a chance of moving to Munich from Mainz but have some reservations.  I am a scientist and the job is at the Uni, so I guess I would be in TV-L 13-4 or 5.

 

I currently earn just over 50k in Mainz but if I move to Munich, I guess it’ll be much more expensive. Is there a TV-L zuschlag or do public servants just have to deal with Munich prices?

 

The job would in Martinsried, everywhere in south west Munich looks crazy expensive, any tips for where to look that would be cheaper? I prefer being out of the city centre.  Thanks in advance!

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, NUFCrichard said:

The job would in Martinsried, everywhere in south west Munich looks crazy expensive, any tips for where to look that would be cheaper? I prefer being out of the city centre.  Thanks in advance!

The area around Martinsried, Planegg, Neuried, etc is actually quite cheap!

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/26/2018, 12:29:45, MikeMelga said:

Buying a property in Munich can be your worst mistake. Saw an article a few months ago where it stated that Munich is by far the worst place in Germany to invest in a house.

The house market is much more overvalued than the rent market.

 

As an example, I could not afford to buy the house that I am currently renting. It would take me 40-50 years to pay for it, which does not make any sense in the 21st century. The world changes too fast to make such long decisions.

 

Then some naive people will tell you that it is a good investment because it will value well over the years. But that only makes sense as an investment if you plan to exit the city within 10 years. Otherwise, you sell it with a profit, but then you need to live somewhere within the city, right?

 

Buying a place that you can cover within 10 years is profitable. 

 

For example: 150K apartment 1 room. You put 30k down and 120k from the bank. 

 

You pay 1k per month. At a 0.9 - 1% interest rate (you can even get lower), you are looking at 5-6k interest in 10 years.  

 

Assuming you pay all taxes yourself In total you pay 150K + 5.2k (sell tax) + 3k (notary) + 5k (real estate agent). You are looking at 160k payment. 

 

A 1 room apartment is around 800 Euro / month. You can average 400 euro for taxes (nebenkosten, hausegeld ..etc). Means for every rent payment you "lose" 400 Euro -> 4800 Euro / year -> 48000 Euro in 10 years. 

 

Even if you ignore the fact that you can deduct taxes, do whatever you want in the apartment, not worry that you will get kicked and have to move, rent increase per 10 years ...etc. you still end up with a property that is likely to increase 25% in next 10 years. 

 

You can always sell it at least for the price you bought it so you get 50k/ years or 5k / year profit.

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, WanWhiteWolf said:

 

Buying a place that you can cover within 10 years is profitable. 

 

For example: 150K apartment 1 room. You put 30k down and 120k from the bank. 

 

You pay 1k per month. At a 0.9 - 1% interest rate (you can even get lower), you are looking at 5-6k interest in 10 years.  

 

Assuming you pay all taxes yourself In total you pay 150K + 5.2k (sell tax) + 3k (notary) + 5k (real estate agent). You are looking at 160k payment. 

150k + 9k (interest, 1.5%) + 5.2k (sell tax) + 3k (notar) + 0.75k Grundbucheintrag + 7k (agent) = 175k€

 

Quote

 

A 1 room apartment is around 800 Euro / month. You can average 400 euro for taxes (nebenkosten, hausegeld ..etc). Means for every rent payment you "lose" 400 Euro -> 4800 Euro / year -> 48000 Euro in 10 years. 

 

Even if you ignore the fact that you can deduct taxes, do whatever you want in the apartment, not worry that you will get kicked and have to move, rent increase per 10 years ...etc. you still end up with a property that is likely to increase 25% in next 10 years. 

Yeah, but in the meantime, you can take those 175k€ and invest. And that is what most people forget! You need to compare with what you would invest! As an example, the average yearly return of stock markets since 1926 was over 10%! 

Let's say you are cautious and invest just 50k. At an average return rate, you would have 130k€ in 10 years.

 

And if you say that 10% per year is not real, I've had 30% yearly in the past 2 years.

 

Quote

 

You can always sell it at least for the price you bought it so you get 50k/ years or 5k / year profit.

 

Wtf? Where did the 50k come from?? And you are ignoring inflation, btw.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MikeMelga said:

Yeah, but in the meantime, you can take those 175k€ and invest. And that is what most people forget! You need to compare with what you would invest!

I agree with your last sentence. But you can only invest what you have (unless you borrow to invest, which might not be the brightest idea).

The example assumes that there is only 30k available for a down payment. That is the money one can invest today.

And in case there was more cash available for a down payment the interest would also be lower.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now