Racism in Germany

234 posts in this topic

 

I would ask you to check the history of this issue. Until relatively recently (last 15 years) a black German citizen was not allowed to play for the German national football team.

I'm old enough to remember Jimmy Hartwig playing 30 years ago.

 

 

Schalke 04 striker Gerald Asamoah the former French International has curtailed his contact with Schalke, partly because of the constant racist abuse he received on the pitch from fans and in his private life.

Asamoah is a former German international who suffered a string of injuries and moved to Pauli to be able to play again. If you want to see what Schalke fans thought about him after playing 10 years for the club, take a look at his return as a player with Pauli (injured again):

 

 

 

or at his good-bye before moving to Pauli

 

 

 

Honestly, football and German law don't seem to be your strongest points.

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decaf

 

You're absolutely right, decaf. Foreigners, whatever their colour, will always be outsiders in Germany. One has to learn to live with it. I took out German citizenship when lived in Germany (gave it up when I came home to London) but even then I couldn't have become a teacher with Beamtenstatus! I had a German husband and children at German schools so had to stay in Germany, but if one is single and feels uncomfortable with always being stared at(and everyone who is different is stared at) it might be worth considering working in London or Dublin where you'll just be one of the crowd and no-one stares. Germans don't regard staring as rude, just as 'showing interest'!!!

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Schalke 04 striker Gerald Asamoah the former French International has curtailed his contact with Schalke, partly because of the constant racist abuse he received on the pitch from fans and in his private life. Germany has a long way to go yet before racism has been defeated. Having had a 'deutschen Blutes' law for so long hasn't helped. It's now been wiped from the statute book and not a day too soon.

 

When it comes to football, Germany has a decent record tackling racism. The only country in Europe doing a better job is England.

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Thanks Minga. I agree. Germany is doing its very best to tackle this problem, which we had to face up to many years earlier, simply because British clubs were engaging black footballers long before Germany.

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Hans321. Thank you for pointing that out. Do you mean to say there are other 'older' participants in this discussion. How wonderful!

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I am of course aware of the repealing of the complete Act in 1945, but are you aware of the BGB clauses on German nationality in the BGB of the Federal Republic of Germany before they were amended in recent years? (I no longer have access to German law books. I now live in London. Those clauses allowed for the Volga Germans to bypass all immigration formalities and come into Germany after the Fall of the Wall. They then received all the benefits to which German citizens were entitled at the time (1990).

Yes, these minorities had a claim to German citizenship and they still do. As defined in the Bundesvertriebenengesetz. Germany has its own history and this includes for example the German minority in the former Soviet Union who were deported under Stalin, mainly to Kazakhstan, when Germany attacked the USSR.

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Hans, I am of course aware of the BVFG, but what you say doesn't invalidate what I've written. The question remains: what criteria were used to decide who and who was not a German from eastern Europe when they applied to come to Germany after the fall of the Wall? Did they just have to prove residence in one of the many eastern European German settlements, or did they have to prove they were of "deutschen Blutes". You may know that answer, Hans.

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I took out German citizenship when lived in Germany (gave it up when I came home to London

 

So you switched your British Passport for a German one and then switched it back?

 

Why don't i believe that?

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Hans321. Thank you for pointing that out. Do you mean to say there are other 'older' participants in this discussion. How wonderful!

 

No, I mean that you're talking nonsense when you say: Until relatively recently (last 15 years) a black German citizen was not allowed to play for the German national football team. . Google Jimmy Hartwig if you don't understand what I mean.

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Just a further remark to Hans.

 

Your codename 'Hans321' suggests you are German, but your English is faultless. May I ask whether you are an academic?

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Your codename 'Hans321' suggests you are German, but your English is faultless. May I ask whether you are an academic?

What a beautifully illustrating bunch of discriminatory assumptions.

 

Codename Hans123 suggests he's an undercover FBI agent.

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Bluedave.

 

I don't blame you for doubting me. My case was not straightforward. I took out German nationality at a time when all foreigners in the then West Germany had to register with the police every three months. I had moved to Germany to marry a German lawyer and he suggested it would be easier to take out German nationality, which I did after I'd ensured that I wouldn't lose my British nationality by doing so. I was issued with a Personalausweis but no other document as proof that I had taken out German nationality. A year after I took out German nationality (1960)German law was changed so that all future foreigners did not have to trot along to the police station every three months. If I'd gone to Germany one year later, I certainly wouldn't have taken out G. nationlity, because I was never comfortable having it.

 

When I returned to London in 1993, the first thing I did was surrender my German nationality and hand in my German ID card. A check was made by the German Embassy in London and no document could be found confirming I was a German in the records of the town which had issued me with my German ID. My situation was therefore that I'd been carrying a German ID card for 30 years without being a German or rather without any documentary proof that I had German nationality. I was so relieved to hear this in 1993, and just wished I'd known it all along. I never wanted to be a German in the first place and as explained above had only taken out German nationality for a practical reason. Hope that clears it up! I still have the letter from the German Ambassador regretting that I wished to surrender my nationality - before he and I knew I hadn't had it in the first place! Hope that clears it up"

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I went, last year I believe it was, to a party. I was the ONLY black there. But, I got in. I was carded, and they stamped my hand, to show I was able to buy beer. I went with my husband, his brother, and his brothers girlfriend. I had fun somewhat. I talked to some of the Germans, mainly the ones who were drunk, and told me how well they spoke English. I was drunk too, and told them how well I spoke German, and we laughed, as we also almost nearly peed our pants. My only problem was the teenagers. I know at one point we were all teenagers, but can you imagine seeing a drunk 18 year old? It is hilarious. And besides the beers I bought, they also made a pretty penny off of my having to go to the toilet every 2 minutes. But to tell you, I have a German female friend. She has told me how she was turned away ONCE from a club because of her weight. And that was it. I say perhaps, you should try going to parties. Forget the clubs, as the most who go to those are teenagers anyways. Besides, at the parties those are the best, until they serve you shitty ass drinks like my Vodka that I had that was completely watered down. So really, I go to family parties, and drink with my husbands cousin. And he and his wife are also willing to go to parties with me. Mind you his wife is Vietnamese. So, if she can get into clubs, I know you can too.

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Hans321

 

Oh dear, didn't you realize that I was thanking you for drawing my attention to Hartwig. Aren't we sensitive!

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Beuel

 

Ah, I see your English is not faultless, I assume therefore you are German. Hab' ich recht oder nicht?!

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Eh? So if I've read the posts correctly then, it seems that blatant racism is not only expected but tolerated to some extent? I thought that there were some kind of European laws about this kind of thing? To be fair, and I think its probably blatantly obvious, I haven't a clue about German law nor European Law. In the UK though if a bouncer were to reject you on the basis of your ethnicity, then I'm fairly certain that there would be a huge shit-storm!

 

I've just read all 8 pages and I'm still astounded at blase most people are towards this problem and how as I said, its almost expected.

 

And the post that claims to have had the swastika experience in Potsdam: I'd lay off the mushrooms if I were you...

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biggrin.gif

 

You are right. Maybe my English is so bad because I am not an academic, not even close. No undercover agent either, which is a pity, I always wanted to be one.

 

@Penguin:

 

The problem with a lot of bouncers in Germany is that they don't give a f*** about laws.

 

Just google Türsteher-Szene or Türsteher Krieg ...

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Despite my qualifications I was only ever allowed to be an 'Assistentin' with part-time work. Teachers are civil servants in Germany, and back then German civil servants had to have German blood in their veins (be of "deutschen Blutes"). Black footballers have only been in the German national football team for a short time because it was only relatively recently that the 'deutschen Blutes' laws were repealed under pressure from the European Commission. There are many Germans who abhor racism but sadly racism is still endemic in German society,

 

You are serving up such a load of bull that it is rather shocking that you were ever unleashed on children. The laws that were concerned with "German blood" were repealed in 1945. I might just as well write about the UK and claim that HM the Queen is still allowed to press men into service in the navy at her discretion.

Anyway, you weren't allowed to be a civil servant because you weren't German, yet some posts further down you claim that you received German citizenship in 1960? Why doesn't that enhance the credibility of your story?

There is no such thing as a "Bundesgesetzbuch". There is the "Bundesgesetzblatt" where laws are published officially and there is the "Bürgerliches Gesetzbuch" (BGB). Citizenship was never regulated in the BGB but in the Reichs- und Staatsangehörigkeitsgesetz (RuStaG)of 1913, which is simply called Staatsangehörigkeitsgesetz (StAG) now.

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