Thin walls - no taking showers after 20:00

119 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, justere said:

"sometimes, once is enough."

This must hark back to what their womenfolk suffered at the hands of the Red Army in WWII. I have a theory that those experiences must have contributed in part at least to the harshness of the national character. The words seem to have stuck.

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2 hours ago, justere said:

Super, thank you!!

 

I believe I'm quite a reasonable individual and treat people fairly and politely, I have no intention whatsoever on apologizing to him though! Our contract does not mention showering and judging by the document that you sent it seems as though this could be completely disregarded anyway! If anything I am expecting an apology from him!

 

If there is any further trouble, print that court decision out and show it to him.  That should shut him up.  If you expect further problems, join the mieterverein.  They can help you deal with things like that.

 

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I feel your pain. I live in a building with incredibly thin walls. Sometimes my next-door neighbor comes back from a business trip and has to shower at 3 am. 
No big deal. I'd much rather listen to the shower running that the thumping aggressive beat of loud techno music. You should join the Mietverein, and let them deal with it.

Momma always said, "Kill them with kindness." Momma  was a very polite person but she didn't have to deal with shower curfews or type-A neighbors complaining about one-off  noise infringements.
Momma would have told you that the next time you encounter your charming neighbor, smile from ear to ear and wish him "einen absolut wunderschönen Tag!" :P

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You could also, as someone already suggested, talk to your landlord about it.

You might point out to him/her the facts mentioned here and ask if he could bring it up at the owner's meeting. Assuming this is a house with several apartments, there will probably be several owners who will meet at least once a year. We had a problem with people parking like a bunch of idiots, our landlord brought it up and made it quite clear that he expected the other owners to inform their tenants that blocking in cars of other tenants was unacceptable. (Almost) no problems since then. We had pointed this out to the neighbors about ten times ourselves, which didn't make a difference. 

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People with little sensitivity to noise have no grasp of just how horrible noise is, especially after bed time.

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14 hours ago, justere said:

If anything I am expecting an apology from him!

A German admitting he or she is wrong/being unreasonable and then apologizing??:o

I'd pay to see that one! (I'm assuming your neighbor is German, of course). ;)

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1 hour ago, MadAxeMurderer said:

People with little sensitivity to noise have no grasp of just how horrible noise is, especially after bed time.

I don't think all people who take shower at night are all insensitive to noise. At least not me: I am very sensitive, I can hear every man walking pas my house and can get up because an asshole taxi driver is waiting with its engine on outside (which is forbidden by law, but this is not enforced, at least not for taxis).

 

When this happens every day, then this is indeed a problem which requires a solution. But making drama of one time occurrence? I don't understand this.

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15 hours ago, maxie said:

You could also, as someone already suggested, talk to your landlord about it.

You might point out to him/her the facts mentioned here and ask if he could bring it up at the owner's meeting. Assuming this is a house with several apartments, there will probably be several owners who will meet at least once a year. We had a problem with people parking like a bunch of idiots, our landlord brought it up and made it quite clear that he expected the other owners to inform their tenants that blocking in cars of other tenants was unacceptable. (Almost) no problems since then. We had pointed this out to the neighbors about ten times ourselves, which didn't make a difference. 

I've already contacted the landlord and am awaiting his reply. 

 

I've also had some colleagues look at the contract in more detail. Apparently ANY noise that disturbs ANY neighbour is forbidden. According to the court decision posted by Hazza this is nonsense. Funny thing is, he raises his shutters every morning at 06.00...even though the contract says no noise can be made between 22.00 and 07.00. 

 

Honestly, I don't want to engage in some petty argument with him, but I think it's important for him to know that he is, in fact, wrong!

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On 07/02/2017 à, justere said:

 

I am sensitive to noise having suffered what amounted to torture by pneumatic drills going 10 hours a day for months and months and months. And a snoring husband. Not much difference between the two. Having said that, real life means some stuff you just have to tolerate, like it or not, and despite your own personal sensitivities. Accepting some discomfort because others in close proximity need to live their lives comes with the maturing process which hopefully happens between childhood and adulthood. Think babies and new parenthood. Your neighbour just does not seem to have made the transition.

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4 hours ago, justere said:

I've also had some colleagues look at the contract in more detail. Apparently ANY noise that disturbs ANY neighbour is forbidden. According to the court decision posted by Hazza this is nonsense. Funny thing is, he raises his shutters every morning at 06.00...even though the contract says no noise can be made between 22.00 and 07.00. 

 

Your right to use the toilet or take a shower at all hours is protected according to the court decision.  However, his right to raise shutters at 6 am is not.  You should print out the court decision and give it to him and you can mention the shutters at the same time.

 

I am sensitive to noise too and I've had neighbours who played loud music and neighbours who argued etc.  I think the music is the worst because it can go on for hours.  Arguing normally doesn't go on for hours and besides, it's slightly more interesting to listen to.

 

According to umweltamt, you should not be able to hear your neighbour at night more than the noise level of a small fan so if I have something bothering me, sometimes I turn on a fan.  It's a constant humming that drowns out other sounds.

 

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Well I suspect opening and closing the Rolladen would also be covered as being reasonable normal activity.  Again, unreasonable would probably be doing it repeatedly.  Mind you, many people seem to delight in doing it as loudly as possible:  you are supposed to do it quietly so as to avoid conflict.

 

http://www.mietrecht.org/mietminderung/mietminderung-laermbelaestigung/

 

Auch die Betätigung von Rollläden gehört zum normalen Gebrauch einer Wohnung. Es handelt sich um sozialadäquates Verhalten, selbst während der Ruhezeiten. 

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On 2/7/2017, 8:46:28, justere said:

Super, thank you!!

 

I believe I'm quite a reasonable individual and treat people fairly and politely, I have no intention whatsoever on apologizing to him though! Our contract does not mention showering and judging by the document that you sent it seems as though this could be completely disregarded anyway! If anything I am expecting an apology from him!

 

I'm really sorry you're experiencing such audacity. Living in a shared building may be a challenge sometimes with having unreasonable neighbors. Don't let yourself be intimidated. Showering was indeed deemed a reasonable use of apartment facilities for up to 30 min and as long as it doesn't consistently break any Hausordnung rules of the building. Bear in mind though that unlike the US even if a court ruled one way in a case that doesn't automatically apply to your particular situation. If you anticipate this guy will keep causing you trouble (which it seems he may and will), do your research on him, check with the local government office. Don't apologize! I have seen that apologizing in Germany often is perceived as weakness and may give him more zeal to mess with your family. I would do my research quickly and probably file a harassment complaint pre-emptively. Having said all that almost always I've found all Germans that I deal with including neighbors to be very considerate and polite people. There are exceptions and in such rare exceptions I hit first and hit hard (legally of course).

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5 hours ago, bennetn said:

Do they not sell earplugs in Germany?

Earplugs are never specially comfortable and can cause problems with earwax build-up over time. They should not be a permanent feature of anyone's life.

Reminds me of the incident of the neighbour's whining pup who was  outside all weathers and ruined the nocturnal slumberings of an entire residential quarter in Munich for over two years. It used to start up at 4.00 a.m. and continued till you got up. And afterwards. There was talk of poisoned sausages over garden fences so desperate were folk to get some decent kip. Neighbours did not respond to phone calls, written correspondence or fingers lingering persisently on doorbells. He was a lawyer and knew his rights... the day I did manage a confrontation in my nightie at the crack of dawn, his suggestion was that we should use earplugs... which I thought was nice.

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I would have been been tempted to call the Tierschutzverein on him :-) 

1 hour ago, optimista said:

 

Reminds me of the incident of the neighbour's whining pup who was  outside all weathers and ruined the nocturnal slumberings of an entire residential quarter in Munich for over two years

 

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1 hour ago, maxie said:

I would have been been tempted to call the Tierschutzverein on him :-) 

 

 

Or even the police----every single time.

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I have a question related to noise, but not showers though. Does anyone on these forums have an idea how sensitive a hearing aid can be made? Its not up to the sensitivity of hearing a mouse move a pebble in the back yard, is it?

 

I'm convinced the guy two floors up turns his hearing aid up to super sensitive at night. I can't hear anything either directly above or below me, but occasionally at night time he bangs on the wall (presumably to tell whoever is making noise he can hear, to stop.) while Im trying to get to sleep.

 

If it was a noise I could hear, say from the neighbor directly above me (so directly below him) I'd understand, but I can't hear anything perceptible even with a sound sensing app. Maybe his bangings are meant for the neighbors in the next separate side-by-side apartment building, noise from which im less likely to hear being 2 floors down and across , so to speak.. It sure is a mystery though...

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23 minutes ago, paulwork said:

I'm convinced the guy two floors up turns his hearing aid up to super sensitive at night. I can't hear anything either directly above or below me, but occasionally at night time he bangs on the wall (presumably to tell whoever is making noise he can hear, to stop.) while Im trying to get to sleep.

 

I'm curious as to how you know it is that guy banging. Usually, it is very hard for us to distinguish where certain noises come from like drilling and such. Is it the neighbor? Above or below or the next house?

 

Anyway, people take their hearing aids out at night unless they are watching TV or talking to someone lest they have to put new batteries in them daily and, no, they cannot be turned up to a high super sensitivity level

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17 hours ago, bennetn said:

Do they not sell earplugs in Germany?

 

I've tried earplugs.  1) they don't completely drown out the noise, 2) I can't sleep with them because they irritate my ears

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