Thin walls - no taking showers after 20:00

[Kratz 11]

Hi All,

 

Please help me with some advice, Im pretty desperate

 

I have just moved in to my new rented apartment(München) and in 2 days I have already received 2 letters !!! from my neighbour saying that as the walls are very thin and her living room is next to my bathroom, I should finish taking a shower after 20.00 (I guess when the Ruhezeit begins).

 

She says she can even hear if the water is running down, so

1. how could I take a shower so silent that she wont hear;

2. is that possible that it counts as breaching the Ruhezeit rule???

 

As I have just renovated this flat, I dont want to move out ASAP because of a crazy neighbour, it costed too much time and money

 

Thanks in advance for any help,

 

Anna

[Guest]

are you a member of the Mieterverein? if not join now, sounds like you have a complicated neighbour. she may leave you alone in future if she gets a legal letter telling her of your rights.

[Bigfoot 743]

Is there anything in your rental contract about the showers? If not, I would tell her to speak with her landlord and have her ask for better insulation.

[punkinside 1,153]

The Ruhezeit officially starts at 22:00, not 20:00.

 

And maybe someone more knowledgeable can correct me, but I think you can go to the bathroom anytime you want in your own damn flat, even in Germany.

 

So write a polite letter telling your neighbor to STFU and if she can't hear Bauer sucht frau, she'll have to turn up the volume.

[Guest]

dunno punkinside, I remember a rental contract I had once which stipulated no showering after a certain time cuz the noise of the water running was too loud.

not that I paid attention though...

[poppet 4,009]

Tell her to take a running jump. Here you go:

 

Duschen: Muss ich irgendwelche Ruhezeiten einhalten?

Nein. Gerade im Sommer nach einer schwül-heißen Grillparty freut man sich auf seine Dusche.

 

Und das geht voll in Ordnung - auch, wenn sich Anwohner von den Duschgeräuschen gestört fühlen. Lärm, der durch nächtliche Körperhygiene entsteht, ist grundsätzlich hinzunehmen, urteilten die Richter. Allerdings sollte man nach 22 Uhr nicht ewig planschen - maximal eine halbe Stunde.

OLG DüsseNorf, Az.: 5 Ss 411/90

 

TRANSLATION

 

Showering: Do I have to heed any sort of quiet periods?

No. Above all in summer after a sweaty hot barbecue, it is wonderful to have a shower.

 

And that is fine - even when neighbours get annoyed by the showering noise. Noise, caused at night by body hygiene matters must generally be accepted, ruled the court. However not endlessly, after 10 o'clock in the evening maximum 30 minutes.

 

Oberlandesgericht Duesseldorf Aktenzeichen : 5 Ss 411/90

[punkinside 1,153]

Well, after 5 seconds of googling, it appears that you can shower however much you like, unless the landlord lives in the same house and there's only two flats in the house (yours and the landlord's).

 

 

Duschen, Baden, WC-Spülung, all das ist vertragsgemäße Nutzung der Mietsache, auch nach 22 Uhr. Vom einem OLG wird hier eine Höchstdauer von 30 Minuten als rechtens erkannt. Für mich aber Unsinn. Ob ich 10 Min. oder eine Stunde in der Wanne liege macht doch beim Ablaufen des Wassers keinen Unterschied. Der Vermieter kann dir Abmahnungen schicken noch und nöcher, sie sind rechtlich gesehen ohne jede Bedeutung. Eine fristlose Kündigung ist ein blödsinniger Schreckschuss. Du brauchst erstmal weder Anwalt noch Mieterverein. Wenn eine Kündigung kommen sollte, schriftlich widersprechen. Vermieter und sein Anwalt werden sich dehr genau überlegen, ob sie weitergehen, es wäre weggeworfenes Geld. Also, lebe weiter und dusche und bade wie notwendig oder gefällt. Du machst nichts falsch.

 

→ Kommentar von LittleArrowLittleArrow 30.08.2009 - 23:49Was machst Du denn bei einer Kündigung nach § 573a BGB?

 

→ → Kommentar von albatrosalbatros 01.09.2009 - 0:34 Ich habe nirgendwo gelesen, dass es sich um ein Haus mit nur 2 Wohnungen handelt. Ansons-ten hast du ja dir die Frage schon selbst beantwortet und zwar völlig korrekt

 

 

 

1) Ein Mietverhältnis über eine Wohnung in einem vom Vermieter selbst bewohnten Gebäude mit nicht mehr als zwei Wohnungen kann der Vermieter auch kündigen, ohne dass es eines berechtigten Interesses im Sinne des § 573 bedarf. Die Kündigungsfrist verlängert sich in diesem Fall um drei Monate.

 

If you don't understand German:

 

You can shower and go to the bathroom at all hours and nobody can tell you anything. But if you're living in a house alone with your landlord, he can throw you out for whatever reason (with 3 months notice).

[sarabyrd 18,766]

Showering is covered by the usual usage (EDIT: as it says above - vertragsgemäße Nutzung) of your apartment and is therefore permitted at any time, even 3 am (as long as you don't sing Wagner arias in the shower at the top of your voice with the windows open). Tell her to insulate her wall.

[BattalionBoy 18]

Buy yourself a very loud cuckoo clock.

Hang it in the shower room.

 

Does she like Led Zeppelin?

[Pas 8,132]

Go over and ask if she wants to join you.

[Master Splinter 124]

I'd just keep doing what you're doing unless the request comes form the landlord, at which point you can query what section of your tenancy agreement or rental t's and c's covers cowing to the every whim of the cantankerous old hag next door.

[onemark 787]

It's true: you can shower any time day or night.

 

But do go and see your local tents' association (Mieterverein) before your neighbour does (if you haven't already done so) to get more accurate advice.

[Malt-Teaser 3,727]

My wife still remembers the times when she was much younger and living in an apartment with paper-thin walls where her bedroom was next to the neighbour's bathroom.

He worked shifts and after arriving home late at night he apparently used to enjoy a bath.

Sadly, he apparently used to enjoy turning it into some kind of bubble-bath by farting in it.

 

She tells me it wasn't the best form of soothing sounds to get to sleep to, but nothing illegal or against ruhezeit rules either.

 

:lol:

[poppet 4,009]

 

he apparently used to enjoy turning it into some kind of bubble-bath by farting in it.

 

Ach ja, surely this belongs on the 'Things that make a Hermann say, "Geil!" ' thread.. A do-it-yourself jakuzzi!

[loz_adele 840]

My bf once told me about a case that went to court where a guy used to work nights at a job that made him really dirty and so he always took a shower when he got home really late, which used to keep his neighbour awake. He apparently won, the judge decided the man#s right to take a shower and be clean overruled the neighbour's right to quiet. I don't have anything to back this up though, this is just what he told me. I think 8pm is completely unreasonable though, like the other posters said, ruhezeit is usually 10 or 11pm. I would ignore her, personally.

[Für Elise 3,845]

I had a neighbour who used to shower when he got home at midnight and have a masturbatory sleeping-aid when he was in there. It wasn't the most pleasant set of noises to go to sleep to, but I figured it was his flat and his knob and he could wash it as fast as he wanted.

 

Talk to the Mieterverein, get accurate advice, and keep her letters and a record of any other interactions.

[DanHessen 2,964]

I talked to my lawyer. He said you should go to your favorite internet download portal and download the following song... and play it really loud next time you shower at night:

 

 

[GrumpyOldGit 162]

What an amazing story. Whatever you do, stand up to her. If you back down on this she will think she has the upper hand and start whinging at the slightest opportunity.

Sometimes some people need a wakeup call to remind them who they actually are and your next door neighbour sounds like a candidate. My initial reaction would be to ignore it and deliberately shower after 8 o’clock. If the harassment continues, seek legal advice as suggested in previous posts.

If you can find out if she was the reason the flat became empty? Did she harass you previous tenant?. Many moons ago I lived in an 8 flat block and one female tenant complained at nearly everyone. Using all means possible to make everyone’s live hell. My sin was I spoke too loud when in the garden After a while the landlord visited each flat/family to get the facts and an explanation from each tenant. 3 months later the complainer was kicked out for causing unrest in the block and we all lived happily ever after. :rolleyes:

[Kratz 11]

Dear ALL,

 

thanks a lot for the support, and also for the good news

 

Good to know that Im not completely crazy about my humble wish to take a shower whenever I want...

 

Have a nice evening!

[black1 1,694]

Good that you didn't back down on this and got some advice. Although it's good to get along with neighbours it's important to make sure you don't let people walk all over you.