Police wanted to arrest my pregnant girlfriend

[notdeadyet 82]

Somehow I get the feeling the self-rightious crowd surfs this thread in the daytime, while the cynical crowd surfs it at night.

[Chelski 1,438]

 

Third lesson: Put someone else's name on your door and bell

 

And never receive any post ...

[medic82 890]

 

And never receive any post ...

 

door bell, not mailbox. I have an area for my name on my doorbell inside the apt building, my doorbell downstairs, and my mailbox.

 

I have often found it weird that you basically have to put our names on the mailbox, why cant we just have apt numbers.

[Lavender Rain 7,859]

In my case, the postman needs to see the names on the doorbells as the postboxes are inside the building so the mailman puts everyone mail through the slot in the door.

 

I often leave my bell off. I think it could be because my last name is not German my bell gets rung the most.

[lilplatinum 7,142]

 

This reminds me of the time the cops came to arrest my wife for not paying a 10 EUR parking ticket. I actually thought I had paid it but I messed up the bank transfer (new to the system then). Luckily she was out to dinner with friends. (Actually that's why I buzzed the cop in without question; I thought it was my wife who had forgotten her keys at home.) But her fine was only 45 EUR. Still I thought it was ridiculous that a police officer would be making house calls for a 10 EUR expired meter infraction halfway across the country.

 

I got pulled over and arrested in the states for a traffic warrent from a ticket I had paid a year and a half earlier, that was fun.

[ExpatUSA 1,412]

 

I don't give a shit whether someone got caught schwatzfahren.. €600 is obsessive.

EUR600,- sound obsessive? Let's see what can happen to you in Texas or California...

 

"In Rummel v. Estelle (1980), the Supreme Court upheld life with possible parole for a third-strike fraud felony in Texas, which arose from a refusal to repay $120.75 paid for air conditioning repair that was subsequently considered unsatisfactory"

 

"California — the state punishes shoplifting and similar crimes involving under $400 in property as felony petty theft if the person who committed the crime has a prior conviction for any form of theft, ... As a result, some defendants have been given sentences of 25 years to life in prison for such crimes as shoplifting golf clubs ..., or, along with a violent assault, a slice of pepperoni pizza from a group of children."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_strikes_law#Controversial_results

 

Seriously, what's the difference between walking into a shop and stealing some stuff, and (deliberately) not paying for a commercial service you've used? You certainly have no right to complain about legal consequences when you get caught - although prison for a pregnant woman for such a minor offense is way over the top in my opinion.

[notdeadyet 82]

Well, this hardly sounds like refusal.

 

Misunderstanding, laziness, stupidity.. whatever.. But I see no evidence of refusal.

 

Nonetheless, it seems there is little distinction under German law. Look, to even send cops to the house in the first place is a waste of resources. Others say the cops have shown up at their house for a €10 fine.. Then to threaten imprisonment... please. Why didn't they just block her from receiving some social benefit until it's cleared up, or just take it from her bank account like the finanzamt does?

 

Unneccessary drama.

 

P.S. and I still maintain that the Bahn system should implement the same automated gate system that every other mass transit system does. I never understood what the logic of the open system - it encourages people to ride black - and they will. I am not aware of any other such system anywhere in the world. Just a few examples: it's nearly impossible to ride black on any public transport system here in Spain.. same for Washington DC - San Francisco - Chicago - etc. There really is no meaningful translation of schwartzfahren relative to public transport here - because it simply isn't something people can or normally do.

[sosarx 1,661]

so what if she has no bank account on her name and if she doesn't receive social welfare? Do you assume all Germans do ?.

 

And the nice subway gates: Have you ever tried to pass there with a child in a pram or can you imagine some old or disabled people pass trough with their grocery bags?

 

The public transport works well this way, and the ones who do not pay are a small minority compared the millions who use it and pay for it.

[MrNosey 5,326]

 

... I still maintain that the Bahn system should implement the same automated gate system that every other mass transit system does. I never understood what the logic of the open system - it encourages people to ride black - and they will.

 

The first time I went to the US I was surprised to see those street containers where you could put coins in and pick out a newspaper. I couldn't get my head around the idea that someone would be so trusting that a) it would still be there tomorrow and b.) that anyone doesn't pull out all the papers and throw them all over the street, which I never saw... because I was from the UK where any such piece of street furniture would have been trashed within 24 hours of it being installed.

[Sandgroperin 123]

All that for a bahn fine??

 

I would take their ID numbers and call the station they are posted to and find out if they were over forceful.

[notdeadyet 82]

 

so what if she has no bank account on her name and if she doesn't receive social welfare? Do you assume all Germans do ?.

 

And the nice subway gates: Have you ever tried to pass there with a child in a pram or can you imagine some old or disabled people pass trough with their grocery bags?

 

The public transport works well this way, and the ones who do not pay are a small minority compared the millions who use it and pay for it.

 

Well, first, according to many here, and to many published reports, as many as one third of Germans public transport users don't pay. But that's not the point.

 

I haven't seen anyone having any trouble with the gated entry systems here - or in any other city in the world. There are queues for lots of things, but I've never seen ever a queue to get out of the gates after stepping off the train. You just wave your ticket and the gate opens instantly - you don't even have to stop walking. All of the gates here are sized for wheelchairs and baby carriages, etc. Same in the US - and if this is the rationale why gated systems aren't implemented in Germany, then why do so many S-Bahn an U-Bahn stations have only steps?

 

Hard to be in Germany without having a bank account, or utilize any form of public service. Drive a car? Need new TÜV on your car? Do you not pay taxes? Moving? Need to register? Need a new passport? Personalausweiß?

 

I'd have to believe that only a tiny percentage of German residents are "phantom" without any residence, do not have a job, do not file tax returns, have no money and have no bank account, no identification, and utilize no public services.

 

Again, the penalty in this case is not only excessive and unnecessary, but much more costly to enforce than simply taking the money another way (but apparently they attempt to recoup this cost through excessive penalization).

 

And with respect to schwatzfahren, the cost of enforcing it is surely far in excess of the cost the ubiquitous mass transit ticketing and entry systems used all over the world. But apparently, the burden is placed on you or anyone who dares to try - or even make any mistake - e.g., a ticket to wrong zone - unstamped - whatever. Moreover, if there is any subsequent communication error, mail problem, YOU can pay €100's in fines and even go to jail. It's always YOUR fault. Period.

 

Brilliant.

[MrNosey 5,326]

You're living in Spain and have been for some time now. Let go your hatred of all things German. Don't you see that it's only destroying you? Live free and be happy.

[swimmer 3,706]

 

Misunderstanding, laziness, stupidity.. whatever.. But I see no evidence of refusal.

 

But this is the comforting double-think again.

 

Other people refuse to pay fines. We however simply "overlook" or "misunderstand" them or "never quite get round to it". Rules are for the little people. Don't apply to the likes of us. We are above all that.

 

Passive non-compliance is a risky game. As this poster's girlfriend has found out the hard way. The authorities hear the lines a zillion times.

[notdeadyet 82]

 

You're living in Spain and have been for some time now. Let go your hatred of all things German. Don't you see that it's only destroying you? Live free and be happy.

 

Well, I and a million other idiots could write volumes on the well-known rigidity, pettiness, and big brother mentality of the German experience (which most Germans and even many on this forum deny exists - yet here it is again, plain as day). But that's for another thread.

 

In this case, I can only say this would never happen here. Not only because you simply can't ride for free, but the authorities really couldn't be bothered to take the time to arrest you for such a petty violation. They simply get it from you in more effective ways, that's all.

 

This is the equivalent of a traffic ticket. If you are a habitual violator who consistently refuses to pay the fines, I could understand the penalty. But this is just typical German over-reaction, inflexibility, and social control at work, ultimately costing the taxpayers even more on top of the high taxes they already pay, for no tangible benefit, other than to assert and maintain public fear of authority. Don't break any rules - you'll go to jail! And we wonder why Germans are afraid of everything.

 

But of course, I just don't understand because I don't live there anymore, right? Despite having the means to prevent schwartzfahren in the first place, and even in the case of a violation, collect in many other simpler, more rational and effective ways, €600 and jail time is a perfectly reasonable penalty, right? Hmmm.. You ought to try moving away. Somehow the well-known and undisputed German blockhead mentality becomes pretty apparent after you are able to look at it from the outside. And ironically, you may even find yourself thinking "how did I ever put up with that crap?".

[MrNosey 5,326]

No, in Spain and every other country everything is so much better... not. I'm sure we could all write pages trashing any country. Learn Tai-Chi or any other relaxation technique and live longer or you'll be needing to change your name to notlongnow.

[sosarx 1,661]

For some a stay in Germany is like an overly long and intense session with their shrink. Grudges over all the things revealed.

[notdeadyet 82]

 

No, in Spain and every other country everything is so much better... not. I'm sure we could all write pages trashing any country. Learn Tai-Chi or any other relaxation technique and live longer or you'll be needing to change your name to notlongnow.

 

 

Hardly.. Spain has a different set of headaches.. Bureacracy and corruption being the most obvious (although often an advantage - if you know how the system works - you can resolve almost anything quickly and rationally- including not being arrested or fined €600 for a petty traffic ticket).

 

But yes I agree, the German experience is what it is: Inflexible, petty, big-brother... It's the culture and the law. Love it or leave it. It just doesn't suit me. But I particularly enjoy enlightening those in denial B)

[bal00 1,917]

 

Well, I and a million other idiots could write volumes on the well-known rigidity, pettiness, and big brother mentality of the German experience

 

 

The only consistency in your argument appears to be the belief that 'if Germany is doing it, it's wrong'.

 

I mean here you are complaining about rigidity and big brother mentality and in the same breath (without any sense of irony) you're criticizing Germany for not just taking money out of people's bank accounts without their consent, and German cities for not putting up barriers and turnstiles. Two weeks ago, in another ill-informed rant, you were going on about the German government having too much access to people's bank accounts.

 

Fare evasion rates on urban public transport networks are in the low single digit range. Why would cities spend tens of millions on turnstiles and barriers?

[notdeadyet 82]

 

The only consistency in your argument appears to be the belief that 'if Germany is doing it, it's wrong'.

 

I mean here you are complaining about rigidity and big brother mentality and in the same breath (without any sense of irony) you're criticizing Germany for not just taking money out of people's bank accounts without their consent, and German cities for not putting up barriers and turnstiles. Two weeks ago, in another ill-informed rant, you were going on about the German government having too much access to people's bank accounts.

 

Fare evasion rates on urban public transport networks are in the low single digit range. Why would cities spend tens of millions on turnstiles and barriers?

 

 

According to another person believing this woman deserves toi get the fines and jail, the rationale is that one third of bahn users in berlin ride black.

 

And yes, the German government can access your bank account any time they want. They do it routinely. Ever been to an audit? Ever applied for a loan? They have it all right there . they don't need to ask you for it. And what you didn't mention is that others also posted that they also have experienced it directly - and steuerberaters who agree that they can and do - despite it being impossible in the opinion of a few others.

 

So, it's not like I am some tinfoil-headed idiot making it up. Big brother. It's normal in Germany. So why don't they just simplfy it and do what they already do; take it from your account? They can. And do. That's what they do here in Spain. Saves them the bother of needlessly arresting you.

 

Any why spend millions? to save billions in enforcement, for one thing.

 

So what's your point?

[PLS 914]

 

Well, first, according to many here, and to many published reports, as many as one third of Germans public transport users don't pay. But that's not the point.

 

I haven't seen anyone having any trouble with the gated entry systems here - or in any other city in the world. There are queues for lots of things, but I've never seen ever a queue to get out of the gates after stepping off the train. You just wave your ticket and the gate opens instantly - you don't even have to stop walking. All of the gates here are sized for wheelchairs and baby carriages, etc. Same in the US - and if this is the rationale why gated systems aren't implemented in Germany, then why do so many S-Bahn an U-Bahn stations have only steps?

 

Hard to be in Germany without having a bank account, or utilize any form of public service. Drive a car? Need new TÜV on your car? Do you not pay taxes? Moving? Need to register? Need a new passport? Personalausweiß?

 

I'd have to believe that only a tiny percentage of German residents are "phantom" without any residence, do not have a job, do not file tax returns, have no money and have no bank account, no identification, and utilize no public services.

 

Again, the penalty in this case is not only excessive and unnecessary, but much more costly to enforce than simply taking the money another way (but apparently they attempt to recoup this cost through excessive penalization).

 

And with respect to schwatzfahren, the cost of enforcing it is surely far in excess of the cost the ubiquitous mass transit ticketing and entry systems used all over the world. But apparently, the burden is placed on you or anyone who dares to try - or even make any mistake - e.g., a ticket to wrong zone - unstamped - whatever. Moreover, if there is any subsequent communication error, mail problem, YOU can pay €100's in fines and even go to jail. It's always YOUR fault. Period.

 

Brilliant.

 

 

I wonder which reports you are talking about because I use the public transport regularly here and see ticket inspectors at least twice a week and it is usually only once or twice a month where I see them catch anyone. I can't really imagine people in this region are some much more honest the rest of the country.

 

Having lived in Paris for awhile, I don't see how gate-systems stop anyone; those that don't want to pay just jump the gates, push through with someone, go though the handicapped/stroller entrance with others, etc. there.

 

There are signs all over the public transport here warning what can happen if you don't have a ticket so I wonder how it can surprise people that it can add up to so much; the signs even mention not paying the fine can lead to jail time. I don't see why it is such a big deal to pay the €40 and get it over with. I realise people forget or make mistakes, but it doesn't make sense to allow a mistake to get worse. There would have to be several pieces of missing mail to get to where the OP did, and some of them would have had to be sent by registered mail so a letter was ignored, misunderstood, forgot about or perhaps the daughter that wasn't paying in the past assumed the letter was about her rather than her mom and tossed so that her mom didn't know that she got trouble again...