What made you leave Germany

[marton 91]

don_riina - I think you are brilliant the way you manage to write down your thoughts. I love reading your posts because you nearly always reflect what I feel about this place...!

[rortiz 39]

Germany has a lot of good things and life is relatively easy compared with other places.

I am leaving the country in less than a year and there are 2 reasons related one to each other:

 

1. 5 months of gray cold weather

2. I am a surfer. No waves in Germany, and don't tell me "yea there are sometimes waves in the north sea" or any of that crap. They just suck big time and is COLD.

 

Back to the Baja Pacific Coast where I could ride a couple a waves at 6AM and then go to work everyday year round with only a 3mm wetsuit in winter.

- - - Nothing beats that

 

But I really understand people wanting to stay here, sometimes I think the need of being out at sea is a curse instead of a virtue.

[bhardy01 5]

I'm from Australia and living in Germany has a lot of positives. For example; the transport system is amazing and you always manage to find something reasonable for cheap because of their ridiculous overturn due to the population. Being able to travel anywhere in Europe for the weekend (that's if your no doubt shitty job allows you to afford such a luxury)

But, honestly, I miss just actually having friends and not feeling like I'm a complete outsider all.the.time. (and I speak German!) I've lived in Germany a few times and I've known the same people for a number of years now, but Germans are tricky people, and I honestly don't think I will ever not be an outsider. Oh, and I especially miss chilled out, easy to get along with people. Maybe I'm just lucky in Australia, because it's rare to find someone who isn't chilled out. But at least I know in Australia that if I go to a party not knowing anyone or out for a drink, that I'll always find someone to talk to and make a new friend. Germans don't do casual very well.

 

and to people complaining about the grills: i completely agree! i pay the rent, so why can't i do what i want in my own backyard!!

[nina_glyndwr 4,731]

surely it depends on what is important to you. If you want to go surfing every day, then Germany is not the place. But then, that applies to most countries in northern Europe. It doesn't necessarily apply only to Germany.

 

As for finding laid-back people.. I have met lots of nice people here. They're not German for the most part. Germans have usually got their social circle already complete before we foreigners come along. There's usually just a certain number of people you can juggle in your social life. For example, my two closest friends (US and Finnish) returned to their home countries last year and it's taken me a while (until about 2 months ago) to find someone to replace them. And this someone happens to be Italian.

 

As for hearing German all the time... I work from home now and just listen to BBC Radio 4 extra all the time. HEll, we're in the age of the Internet. I can listen to French or Danish radio all day long if I wish. That's not a problem. Likewise with TV programmes. So much can be seen through the Internet, there is no need to watch the god-awful offerings of German TV. I certainly don't miss German TV at all. Then again, I didn't bother with TV in the UK either.

 

For me, books are a great pleasure and I still prefer to read in English (although I can read French and German with ease, too - but that is because of lots of practice). This is why I have settled in D'dorf in Germany rather than, say, Cologne or Duisburg. D'dorf has an English library. This too me is as important as the surf in Baja California (or wherever it was) to the other poster.

 

Figure out what the priorities are for you and then find a place that fulfils them.

[Guest]

@don_riina: Everyone has their likes and dislikes but, all I can say about the sound of German is, it is a lot easier to hear what is being said if you are a sufferer of bad tinitus. The sharp stress on the consonants is much easier to navigate than the more flowing southern European languages. In fact, in some situations, I find it easier than my native English. It may not be very beautiful but it is sometimes very practical.

[HellesAngel 1,888]

He's entitled to his opinion, and let's face it what he says about drunks & druggies is not exactly unknown in the UK. I'm in no hurry to go back.

[Joshuadrooney 99]

Last time I looked, SA was the crime capital of the world.

[Nathaniel 648]

I see plenty of drunks and druggies here in Germany as well. In the US we keep them in certain areas for the most part But, I agree on the UK being a shit hole ;P

 

Allens self hatred will serve him well in Germany. He will fit in nicely.

[lilplatinum 7,141]

 

He's entitled to his opinion, and let's face it what he says about drunks & druggies is not exactly unknown in the UK.

Nor are they unknown in Germany. Just cause a lot of you in that overated village down south does not diminish our myriad ghettos full of drunks and drugs like the Reeperbahn or Berlin.

 

I've never been jumped and beaten by a pack of Turks in London.

[HellesAngel 1,888]

Blimey, you're all a bit defensive today, aren't you?

[swimmer 3,706]

 

Figure out what the priorities are for you and then find a place that fulfils them.

 

I'd say that's the first bit - in theory! Most of us come here fairly randomly though (relationship, family, job, "fallen in love" with Berlin or Bavaria or the Mosel Valley or wherever). I got very, very lucky with a place the latest Rough Guide describes (rightly) as "laid-back", it's comically tolerant and open at times, but it could easily have gone wrong for me.

 

But it is still just the start. The place won't deliver what you want. You have to find it. My experience was to make a fairly focussed plan to deliver what you personally want. I am really ruthless now in cherry-picking the sort of people I want to be my mates or in general contact with - and do what it takes to get them. And indeed those I want to avoid! In the end, I always get them but it can take some time and it often means turning down the short term expedient choices (hanging with whatever EL speakers you happen to find / taking any old job / hooking up with a rescuer partner / going home to good old UK TV each night / rushing back to the UK every holiday etc). Familiarity and regularity works big time here I think - getting your face known etc.

 

I totally agree your point about support of non-EL immigrants though. I've said here before enough times that we EL-speakers do tend to under-estimate this "third population" (not-German, not EL speakers). It is very big and often well-connected and knowledgeable. I have far, far more in common with, say, a footloose and fancy-free Brazilian than most Americans or Brits working an office job or on an inter-company transfer, say. And - again that ruthless bit - they are of a lot more use to me .

[Masala 157]

I think for me the 'final straw' was hidden somewhere within a bulging, strapped bundle that was slung over this camel some time during the course of the last six months. Read: All above, and other complaints.

Back broken? It certainly feels that way. Though I can't say, exactly, why... I think I feel like I'll never be free in Germany, free of the machine, but also free to be myself. Or could it be, that there's just not enough bloody ocean here?

[bohemka 4,337]

 

I think I feel like I'll never be free in Germany, free of the machine, but also free to be myself.

 

That's it right there. The entire society is based on immobility and routine. It's tough for someone who values flexibility and mobility over all to accept, and once you've realized you're starting to accept it you've also just realized you're losing yourself. It'll get in your head for sure.

[notdeadyet 82]

I haven't read through the entire thread, but here's my 2 cents pursuant to the title of the thread:

 

Before offering my list, I'd only say that Germany offers a lot of good things - certainly one of the best social systems (especially if you intend to live off of it), The 3 B's: Beer, Bread, and Bahn . Beer & Bread is obvious, but Yep, the train system is as good or better than just about anywhere else. I've also noticed that service in Germany has improved dramatically in the past 10 years. It used to be impossible to get good service. Now it's much better.

 

Anyway, Germany wasn't my cup of tea for a combination of the following reasons:

 

1. High cost of living without really being all that fabulous (Munich). Lived better in California at substantially less cost. Spain is somewhere in-between.
2. Too much tax (and a Finanzamt with a license to extract any amount they dream up, anytime they want, for any reason)
3. Too many rules - no matter what you do, it's wrong ...somehow - and/or you need some sort of expensive paper to make it right. Virtually all aspects of life are written into law in Germany, no matter how trivial.. Nowadays I cringe whenever I see this symbol: §
4. Inflexible mentality - must always follow all written rules; even when idiotic, or completely irrelevant; "it's written here!".
5. Many Germans seem to believe they have an obligation to monitor you 24/7 to ensure you precisely conform to all written rules, and immediately report any potential violations to anyone in the general vicinity, or call the police
6. Shit weather most of the year

[Scrax 83]

I left in February after nearly a year and for me it was the food and the people.

Half way through my time in Germany I went to Madrid for a week to visit a mate working out there. I can honestly say I got more friendliness and smiles in 7 days partying and chilling out in Madrid and just going to art galleries and sitting in cafes, often alone as my mate was working during the day, than I did in 6 months in Germany working in a company with people who were supposedly educated and living in a WG. My German is fluent and my spanish almost non existent but nobody in Madrid pretended they didn't understand me or rudely said 'wie bitte' or 'was' when I asked for e.g. a beer pretending not to understand me out of racism. In Germany this would happen at least twice a week. Actually the first day I was in Madrid I was literally in a state of shock at people not actually scowling at you, yawning at you, coughing loudly in your face or just plain ignoring you in shops, in cafes and so on and at smiling faces and polite people. In Germany I found nearly everyone rude snotty and unfriendly like they just enjoyed being rude for the fun of wrecking your day.

Also outside the big cities food in Germany is disgusting and is just cream cakes, cheese, pork and bread and pizza or donner kebabs which I was not able to cope with. Is it a terrrible diet that makes them behave like they do?

I am back in the UK and tis place isnt perect but on the whole, the people actually have human qualities and the food is one million times better. And someone mentioned chavs like there arent any in Germany. I mean what sort of people is e.g. Alexanderplatz full of and half of most the other big German cities.

[Alcala 551]

most of the German chavs you see are probably Auslanderchavs...from Turkey, Ireland, Australia and other shitholes like that...I think also that as a gross generalisation people in warmer climates could tend to be happier...I would rather sit in the sun with nothing than in the cold...i.e spain v germany...also many spanish are uneducated so the smile often just means they're completely clueless...

[bohemka 4,337]

WTF. You cannot be serious.

[lilplatinum 7,141]

 

most of the German chavs you see are probably Auslanderchavs...from Turkey, Ireland, Australia and other shitholes like that...I think also that as a gross generalisation people in warmer climates could tend to be happier...I would rather sit in the sun with nothing than in the cold...i.e spain v germany...also many spanish are uneducated so the smile often just means they're completely clueless...

 

From this post, I can tell you smile often.

[Alcala 551]

yes I am always smiling Lilplat...

 

shit hang on you got me...

[gaberlunzi 814]

 

i think the problem is they left Toytown too.

 

I've known a few personally who have left after years of living here. most were like myself - well-educated academics,yet single. they came to Germany mostly for work and left before the 5 year mark mainly because their earning power was severely limited. they never would earn as much here as in the u.s. and that was the deciding factor. i should also add, they never had more than basic German. They knew they would be giving up 6 weeks paid holiday, work-life balance, living in central Europe for the grind, but money and all that they could buy with it, was more important. The ones I still keep in touch with have their homes and have adjusted quite well to their 50 hour work weeks, 1+ hr commutes, crime, superficiality, etc. They tell me they look fondly back to their time here, but they don't regret leaving simply because now they have more money in their pockets.

 

One friend who just recently left only did so because she got engaged to an American who had been living here for a year. He could not stay, nor return (worked for gov't) so she had to choose.

 

the reason why i love it here! back home i was overwhelmed with too many choices. and i don't have to pay an arm and a leg for healthy, ecologically friendly foods. being an austinite i am proud of whole foods, but grocery shopping in the u.s. breaks the bank.

 

Elfenstare,well educated and has a problem with intelligent grocery shopping? Are you blond?

 

 

don_riina - I think you are brilliant the way you manage to write down your thoughts. I love reading your posts because you nearly always reflect what I feel about this place...!

 

ditto! Don, try to stick to a Bavarian dialect, everything slides much easier out of your mouth than German.

 

 

Try and get a simple bloody baguette in this culinary wasteland.

No problem, cut your fingers when you get the baguettes home.

 

 

I haven't read through the entire thread, but here's my 2 cents pursuant to the title of the thread:

 

Before offering my list, I'd only say that Germany offers a lot of good things - certainly one of the best social systems (especially if you intend to live off of it), The 3 B's: Beer, Bread, and Bahn . Beer & Bread is obvious, but Yep, the train system is as good or better than just about anywhere else. I've also noticed that service in Germany has improved dramatically in the past 10 years. It used to be impossible to get good service. Now it's much better.

 

Anyway, Germany wasn't my cup of tea for a combination of the following reasons:

 

1. High cost of living without really being all that fabulous (Munich). Lived better in California at substantially less cost. Spain is somewhere in-between.
2. Too much tax (and a Finanzamt with a license to extract any amount they dream up, anytime they want, for any reason)
3. Too many rules - no matter what you do, it's wrong ...somehow - and/or you need some sort of expensive paper to make it right. Virtually all aspects of life are written into law in Germany, no matter how trivial.. Nowadays I cringe whenever I see this symbol: §
4. Inflexible mentality - must always follow all written rules; even when idiotic, or completely irrelevant; "it's written here!".
5. Many Germans seem to believe they have an obligation to monitor you 24/7 to ensure you precisely conform to all written rules, and immediately report any potential violations to anyone in the general vicinity, or call the police
6. Shit weather most of the year

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZGHPpEmH14