Two sisters murdered in Krailling, uncle arrested

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Leeza my mom was a single mom I know all to well the hard choices they have to make, but simple things like locking a door to protect your children? I never once commented on the moms working hours I know how hard it can be. But no matter how hard the situation you need to make the best decisions possible and I find basic safety like door locks to be common sense. It is not the deciding factor if she can work and provide for her family.

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sure its not easy being a single parent, but working nights isnt the answer - there is enough support provided in Germany for that not to be necessary

 

By support you mean Hartz4?

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I couldn't agree more with you leeza. And to those who say it isn't necessary to work at night, you are right it shouldn't be, but as soon as you own a business or a property with a value over a certain amount, there is no help from the state - at least no Hartz IV. So maybe some people decide to leave their children alone for a few hours when they sleep, with the hope of giving them a better future. Besides there is the fear of never getting back up on your feet once you have to apply for Hartz IV.

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I'm putting my money on a man being the culprit.

 

Most probably. And probably the mother is getting more sympathy because she is a mother - had it been a man/father he would have been castigated as a useless father I guess

 

 

By support you mean Hartz4?

 

well, for example I guess or a day job. But anyway working nights isnt the answer

 

 

I couldn't agree more with you leeza. And to those who say it isn't necessary to work at night, you are right it shouldn't be, but as soon as you own a business or a property with a value over a certain amount, there is no help from the state

 

well you can sell a property to be fair

 

But anyway, tragic as others mention and it may well have happened sooner or later so not blaming the mother particularly. More a general comment about it not being a good idea to leave kids at night whatever the circumstances

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I think this whole discussion about the doors being locked or not is really ridiculous. First of all, we don't even know what "unlocked" means in this case.

According to the Süddeutsche Zeitung the door/s was/were opened by turning a handle.

 

 

From what I have read so far, the children were brutally murdered, not just stabbed, but also beaten and that makes me think it was planned rather than opportunistic.

 

Beaten and stabbed, and the younger one was strangled as well.

 

 

Most probably. And probably the mother is getting more sympathy because she is a mother - had it been a man/father he would have been castigated as a useless father I guess

 

That horse, like Monty Python's parrot, is very ex.

 

EDIT: I just re-read the SZ article - the elder girl was in her bedroom, the younger in her mother's room. This makes me think that the elder one was killed first, and the younger girl ran to her mother's room for help and/or protection.

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I want to know several things:

The murderer used a knife found in the house. Does that mean it was simply found there, or was it a knife known to be in the house prior to the murders? Killers usually bring their own weapons, they can't count on finding something handy.

How long was the older girl dead before they were found?

Was it common for the younger girl to sleep in her mother's bed?

Were both the mother and the pub owner observed constantly throughout the evening, with no gaps in their presence?

 

I have a message out to my sister the criminal evidence technician, asking for her input regarding The Local's article.

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The murderer used a knife found in the house. Does that mean it was simply found there, or was it a knife known to be in the house prior to the murders? Killers usually bring their own weapons, they can't count on finding something handy.

A knife not belonging to the household was found at the scene and is assumed to be the/one of the murder weapon/s.

 

 

How long was the older girl dead before they were found?

The older girl was still alive, CPR was attempted by the police and first responders but she died at the scene.

 

 

Was it common for the younger girl to sleep in her mother's bed?

no info

 

 

Were both the mother and the pub owner observed constantly throughout the evening, with no gaps in their presence?

The police aren't saying but it seems that the other guests left by app. 1 am and the mother and her friend stayed on alone. That makes me uncomfortable.

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The police have said that they will be able to say more about their investigations by Sunday afternoon.

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My sister adds this:

 

"Really weird. The fact that the police were using a helicopter to search the area makes it seem like they don't think the mom or boyfriend is guilty. Or, they're just trying to make it seem like they're covering all the bases."

 

She's been on teams investigating murders or unexplained deaths since the late 90s, and I was hoping she might have some insight.

If the police haven't released information on how long the younger sister - I stand corrected - had been dead, I think that means they might have suspicions that it was the mother or her boyfriend. In spite of my sister's comment about the helicopter search, I don't think the police are looking far afield (and in spite of her undoubted expertise in drawing conclusions about crime scenes - after all, I used to change her diapers).

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From different reports I have read, they do not suspect the mother, boyfriend or father. However, a psychologist on their team believes it is personal because of the brutality of the attack. He mentioned that it could be an ex boyfriend of the mother in rage wanting to take away what she loves the most but as far as I know, they have no such person as a suspect at the moment.

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Or a balmy neighbour, someone really close who couldn't stand kids and their noise, for instance? The attack sounds utterly psychopathic and premeditated.

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From different reports I have read, they do not suspect the mother, boyfriend or father. However, a psychologist on their team believes it is personal because of the brutality of the attack. He mentioned that it could be an ex boyfriend of the mother in rage wanting to take away what she loves the most but as far as I know, they have no such person as a suspect at the moment.

 

That's what I thought as well. CSI may be outrageously unrealistic as to investigative procedures but some of the profiling is based on actual police work. Multiple stab wounds and excessive brutality generally have a personal background.

 

 

It seems that Chiara, the younger girl, was found in her own room while Sharon was in her mother's bedroom. This really looks like some kind of personal revenge - too cowardly to attack the mother directly but killing her soul by murdering her children in their own home.

 

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Really sad and horrible! The more I read and think about it, the more horrific it gets. For my ability to sleep at night, I hope it wasn't a random stranger (that sounds really selfish and I don't mean it that way, I just don't want to start living a paranoid life, as I feel that would greatly take away some quality of life)... I have always felt safer here in Germany compared to the states (and I didn't feel unsafe there very often) because of the proximity of houses, etc.

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From today's Süddeutsche Zeitung:

 

Anyone in Krailling with dumbbells is a potential suspect, it seems that one dumbbell was found in the apartment along with the knife. The mere thought turns my stomach. The police is also checking the girls' internet activities as they had posted pictures and chatted on various fora. Parents, please remind your kids about internet security!

 

 

Es gibt ein Messer, das wohl als Tatwaffe in Frage kommt, und es gibt eine Hantel, die in der Wohnung lag und für die Tat relevant sein könnte.

 

Experten werten auch die Internet-Verbindungsdaten der Mädchen aus. Die elfjährige Sharon und die achtjährige Chiara surften gerne im Netz, tauschten sich mit Freunden in Foren aus und stellten Fotos von sich ein.

The police are hauling in people who frequent the pub for DNA tests; they see the pub "Schabernack" as the central location of the whole crime: The girls' mother worked there in the evening after her office job as foreign language secretary, regulars knew that the children were alone at home when she was on duty, and that the door was left unlocked.

 

 

Es ist kurz vor Mitternacht. Die Tür geht auf, zwei Zivilpolizisten steuern direkt auf einen jungen Mann zu, der gelegentlich in der Kneipe verkehrt. Sie nehmen ihn mit auf die Planegger Wache, dort wird er erkennungsdienstlich behandelt, später taucht er wieder auf und trinkt weiter.

 

Der Mann ist einer von vielen Gästen, die die Polizei überprüft, denn das "Schabernack" ist für die Ermittler einer der Dreh- und Angelpunkte: Anette S., die Mutter der ermordeten Kinder, ist mit dem Wirt der Kneipe liiert, abends arbeitete die Fremdsprachenkorrespondentin gelegentlich im Lokal mit. Die 41-Jährige kennt alle Stammgäste und die Gäste kennen sie - und ihre Töchter Sharon und Chiara. Wer öfter dort war, der wusste, dass die Kinder alleine zu Hause waren, wenn Anette S. bediente, und dass sie aus Angst vor einem Brand die Haustüre nicht zusperrte, damit die Kinder flüchten könnten.

 

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Oh how terrible, that breaks my heart.

 

But why woul people know the door was unlocked that seems really odd to me. Not something one would boast about.

 

I hope not but I really worry mom was involved.

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That's the first time I've read that the mother has a regular daytime job, too, and that she only occasionally worked in the Schabernack, which throws a different light on the happenings. It means there was no need for the mother to work at night at all, which suggests she did so, either to help her boyfriend out, or just to spend time with him, as otherwise they wouldn't have much time together, her working during the day and him working nights. This also explains why the police are concentrating on the Schabernack guests, as they are mainly the ones who would know when the children would be alone. Leaving the doors unlocked (in case of fire - I think the 11 year old would be capable of handling a key) and letting everybody know was very negligent.

 

 

... but I really worry mom was involved.

Mothers who have killed their children usually resolve to unbloody killings, as far as I know. This is why it doesn't really fit. It seems to be the deed of a psychopath taking revenge on the mother or something.

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One news article I saw actually stated that the mother was not even working that night but came to watch a live music event at the pub. There is also a post here a couple of pages ago stating that the guests had left at 1:30 am? and still the mother and boyfriend did not go home until 4:30. Maybe they were cleaning up, who knows but that could also have been done the next morning by the boyfriend whose pub it is. It all seems a bit strange. They are however not considered to be suspects to the police.

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Indeed. That struck me as pretty strange, too. Also in view of the new knowledge that the mother has a daytime job, for which you would think she would need some sleep before going to work.

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