Dual citizenship- traveling from the US to Germany

68 posts in this topic

at the end of the day they don't care. -if you have a return ticket. - If you however have NO return ticket and arrive here in germany on your american passport they will question this.

 

I fly in and out of New Zealand all the time.

 

NB: if the plane crashes you are the citizen of the last time you have shown your passport. Hope that helps... :)

 

kateTV

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It's just a headache I would rather not have to deal with. It would be much easier if the Auslanderamt stopped wasting my passport pages by sticking 1 yr residence/work permits on them, instead stick the new one on top of the old one, or give me one for at least 3 yrs.

 

Yes, many things in life would be easier with less legal requirements and bureaucracy. However, wishful thinking won't change the fact that you can't stick a residency permit on top of another or peel one off.

 

As for a 3-year permit, most people don't get those. I assume they're for diplomats or highly-skilled workers. In order to remove all doubt, why don't you email your local Ausländeramt and ask them if it's possible instead of tilting at windmills about it on Toytown?

 

(Pardon the off-topic replies)

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because it is better to ask people on TT who have actually had to go to the Auslanderamt to get the permits, Many of them might understand where I am coming from and be able to tell me if they have ever been able to get the new permit placed on the old one. I know of someone who did.

 

Plus are you crazy? CALL THE AUSLANDERAMT? They will tell me to make an appointment to call for the answer. Then when I get the answer, I might get several different answers depending on who I call, and what day it is, and importantly what time of day it is.

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It is not a simple thing to go to the US Embassy or US Consulate for those of us who do not live near one. The hrs for this are limited. I have always gone to the Munich one which for some reason all the available appts seem to be booked up that you have to usually wait for about 3weeks. Also it takes about 2hr to get down there, and 2 hrs to get back. So thats a day off work, Lots of money on transportation, and lets not forget the money for the actual passport itself.

 

It's just a headache I would rather not have to deal with. It would be much easier if the Auslanderamt stopped wasting my passport pages by sticking 1 yr residence/work permits on them, instead stick the new one on top of the old one, or give me one for at least 3 yrs.

 

I haven't had any luck getting the Amt in Nbg to put new permits over old ones. I've got 4 sets now, and it takes up a lot of space! I did, however, get more pages put into my passport from the Munich office by mail. Took about a week. Just sent them my passport along with the form from the consulate website, along with the fees (not cheap!) and a self-addressed, stamped envelope. Easy as pie!

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@ medic82

 

Where in your daughter's passport does it say that she also has an American passport? I don't think mine says that, although it does list my birthplace in the States as well as the consulate in the States that issued my passport, so the connection to the States should be clear enough then, I guess...

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As for a 3-year permit, most people don't get those. I assume they're for diplomats or highly-skilled workers.

 

I'm neither diplomatic nor particularly highly-skilled but I got a three-year-visa just for the asking.

 

As a matter of fact the Ausländerbehörde has pretty much given me whatever visa I want whenever I wanted, but there could be a couple of factors in that:

 

- I always had a job offer/letter of employment for a job not executable by 99% of German nationals

- I made sure not to ask for more than a couple of years at a time

- Then I got married and it is fairly standard to give three years after one marries a German citizen. After these three years are up I can apply for a longer (permanent?) visa.

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@Schwarz

 

Sorry I meant to say that if scanned my Daughters PP will also indicate that she has an American Passport also. I asked about that when I went to pick up her passport last week, and the Gentleman there told me that yes it is noted that she also has an American passport, I did not mean that physically it is written on her PP.

 

I am now suppose to be eligible for the 3yr visa, but those people at the Auslanderamt said I have to first finish my Integration course, even though I now also have a German child. Funny though cause earlier another staff a the Auslanderamt had said I did not need to do the Integration course if I have a daughter born here in Germany with German citizenship. I tell ya, you just can't trust what these people at the Auslanderamt say anymore, They have caused me to take so many days off work , which as afreelancer sucks, because they have given me the wrong information, and I turn up for my appointments without all that they want.

 

Example.

 

I got married and wanted a new visa so I can work in any sector. I go there and ask them for all thestuff I need. I get a list and we sit for about 10min looking at all the stuff i had with me. He says that I have everything I need and for me to just bring proof of my list 3 months of income. Well I come next week, only to be told by someone else that I need my A1 Deutsch certificate. that took almost 3 months to get. 1.5months to take the next available test date, then 1 month to wait for the result. Then i bring the certificate and proof of Insurance, only to be told to bring them at my next appointment which they will mail date and time to me. well 4 weeks later I get a letter and silly me I expect it to have my appointment date. I instead get a letter asking me why I have not mailed in my proof of Insurance to them yet, and till they get it they cannot schedule an appointment for me. I tell you man the Auslanderamt needs serious restructuring.

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I will be going to the states with my wife a German citizen and my son who is a Dual Citizen has German passport and American i know that by American law he must enter to the states with his american passport but im not sure here in Germany when leaving and entering i schould use his German passport. Also if i use his German one schould i get him the ESTA to enter the US because by law if he holds an american passport he schould not need it. By the way he is a baby of 16 moths if that makes a difference.

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I have dual US/Irish citizenship, as I was born in the US from an Irish family. Going in & out of the US I always use the US passport & into Germany/Europe, where I live I use the Irish. Been doing that for over 25 years & never had a problem.

 

I have a good friend in the US that works for the TSA on the immigration side. She did say that if for some reason you were given a random search & both passports were found, you definately would be given further questioning. In that case she recommended, is to ask to speak to a supervisor & explain your situation to them. You have the right to have dual citizenship & the authorities cannot take the passports, but frontline TSA inspectors are often inexperienced & also looking to score points in their job. A supervisor will have more experience & understanding.

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Use your European Passport to get out...and the U.S. to get into the States, and then the Euro-pass to get back into Europe...TSA...just smile...there are Millions (M) of Irish citizens who don't live in Ireland and have dual citizenship with the U.S...and don't forget 'German' is still the largest ethnic (or was til recently) group in the U.S...I hold 2 passports...the only stamps in my U.S. passport are entering the U.S...no others...TSA?...believe me, Immigration notices there are no other stamps.

 

Here's a nice tip for everyone!! Aer Lingus now offers flights from Schoenefeld Berlin to the States, with a stop over in Dublin..one ticket price...I personally like to stay a few nights in Dublin...and on the way back, doing jetlag in a pub for a day or two beats doing it in Germany. Don't stay at a hotel...rent a holiday flat (more than one night needed I think) www.ellisapartments.com Aerport bus to Euston station..walk or take the Luas to the apartments..right on the Liffey!! (the river).

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A little mix nationality story

 

...We had trouble a few years back as my husband forgot to bring my daughters German/Danish passport on our trip to Florida (she is born in CA, USA and the only American in our family)...he was so excited that she could enter the US as an American...LOL...Anyway, she did enter the US on her US passport and we had a great time.

 

But we then had the problem when we where to return from the US.

 

When we were checking into the flight home we could not prove that she could enter the UK after the flight and we were forced to buy a fully re-fundable return ticket from Virgin-Atlantic.

 

When arriving in London we had a lot of problems as we were taking an American into the UK without "prove" that she had the right to be here other than her British accent...she was 4 years old!

 

So unless you have a VISA for the duration of the trip either way then do bring all passports...have a great time :)

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I find that surprising, because as a US citizen she doesn't need a visa for 6 months in the US. I certainly never had to show a visa and I haven't been required to show a return ticket either. Sounds like these folks who dealt with you were real putzes.

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This is going to be interesting:

 

I now hold dual EU (Slovenia)/US citizenship. So I shall present my Slovene passport to the border police when leaving/entering the EU, and my US passport when entering/leaving the US. However, I strongly assume that my EU passport, which has biometric capabilities, will send off a signal which will be received at an e-border (e.g. at JFK or SEA). Conversely, my current US passport is pre biometric. It's going to be interesting if I am asked by the border patrol agent about my second citizenship, which is 100% legitimate.

 

Have any of you been questioned about a second passport (on your person) while at a US e-border? Specifically, you presented your US passport, whereas your non US (e.g. EU/AZ/NZ) passport was in your pocket or bag, and you were "confronted" about this.

 

To be honest, I really don't care to have to justify my intent to retain US citizenship, as I was naturalised as a Slovene through descent.

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I now hold dual EU (Slovenia)/US citizenship. So I shall present my Slovene passport to the border police when leaving/entering the EU, and my US passport when entering/leaving the US.

Not exactly. You should present your US passport at a check-in in the EU to prove that you have the right to enter the USA without an ESTA. Then, you have to present your EU passport to the border control when exiting EU. Then, present your US passport when entering the USA. When leaving the USA, present your your both US and EU passports at the check-in to prove you were in the USA legally and that you have the right to enter the EU without a visa and without a return ticket. That is all. There is no exit border control in the USA - the fact that nobody mentioned in this thread.

 

 

However, I strongly assume that my EU passport, which has biometric capabilities, will send off a signal which will be received at an e-border (e.g. at JFK or SEA). Conversely, my current US passport is pre biometric. It's going to be interesting if I am asked by the border patrol agent about my second citizenship, which is 100% legitimate.

Your biometric passport cannot be read when closed, and even if it was open, it could only be read within 10 cm from the reader. You could be asked about your dual citizenship anyway but not because of the RFID chip.

 

 

Have any of you been questioned about a second passport (on your person) while at a US e-border? Specifically, you presented your US passport, whereas your non US (e.g. EU/AZ/NZ) passport was in your pocket or bag, and you were "confronted" about this.

What do you mean by e-border? There is Global Entry programme and there are usual immigration queues. If you are enrolled in the Global Entry, you still have to scan your passport at the kiosk and have your fingerprints scanned in order to skip a usual queue.

 

 

To be honest, I really don't care to have to justify my intent to retain US citizenship, as I was naturalised as a Slovene through descent.

 

You don't need to inform them of your intent to retain the US citizenship because as per current Dept of State policy, such intent is automatically presumed. In the past, you had to do that.

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I once couldn't find my DE passport when I arrived at Frankfurt, so had to enter on my NZ passport. But I was told that I had to turn up at my local cop-shop with both passports to be deregistered as a visitor (as a kiwi you enter Europe as part of the visa exchange programme). Easy as pie, but a hassle nonetheless.

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@Moondancer,

 

Actual what Gail says is not nonsense at all. International law proscribes assistance of dual nationals in the country where they hold one of their citizenships by the authorities of the alternative country of citizenship. I had to sign a form confirming that I understood that when I became German.

 

This quote from example is from the UK's Home Office Literature (BN18 - INFORMATION ABOUT DUAL NATIONALITY). They explain it better than I do. I know that in the case at hand it's the US that's being discussed but the rules are the same for all countries:

 

"Under international law, a State may not give consular assistance to one of its nationals if he or she is in a country whose citizenship that person also holds – i.e. if you are British and, for example, Chinese, the British representative in China cannot give you consular assistance whilst you are in China."

 

Smaug

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Does anyone have experience with US/German dual citizen minors traveling out of Germany on a Kinderreisepass?

My 3.5 year-old daughter has had both an US and German passport since she was a baby, but of course now she looks nothing like the photos. The last time I flew with her (out of Germany, but within the EU) the immigration official checking passports before the flight gave me shit about the baby photo and told me I need to get her a Kinderreisepass.

 

The Kinderreisepass is a cheaper form of ID intended for minors, presumably because they stop looking like their photos quite fast. It is valid only for travel in the EU.

 

If I were to get her a new e-pass (valid world-wide), I would cost more and I'd have to pay a fee to expedite it at this point (we're traveling in 3 weeks...). 

 

Thus, my question is whether my daughter could depart Germany on her Kinderreisepass, stopping over in Ireland, before heading on to the USA. She would then enter then USA on her (unfortunately still baby photo) US passport. The two legs were booked as one flight with Aer Lingus.

 

I have two concerns - first, the Kinderreisepass does not entitle her to a visa-free entry to the USA, and we couldn't to the ESTA thing for her. So when I check her in with the Kinderreisepass to a flight with the USA as the final destination, they are going to ask for a visa or...something. Maybe at this point I can just waive her US passport...

Second, I can only enter one passport number in her passenger details for the flight. I know I have screwed up which passport I give the people at check-in  I am a US/Irish citizen, and sometimes enter the US details and then give them the Irish passport), and then I just give them the other one and it is fine. But...I've had so many things go wrong flying with her to the USA, I don't trust that the sensible and simple solution will work...

 

And yes, I am trying to reach the US embassy, the German ???, ad I have talked to the airline (they were useless). Everybody seems to consider it somebody else's call.

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, IroniedesSchicksals said:

I have two concerns - first, the Kinderreisepass does not entitle her to a visa-free entry to the USA, and we couldn't to the ESTA thing for her

Doesn't matter since she is a US citizen and is required to use US ID when entering the US.

 

8 minutes ago, IroniedesSchicksals said:

Second, I can only enter one passport number in her passenger details for the flight.

US passport number (destination). Airline is obliged to check if your daughter has a right to go to the US and that your daughter will not be deported by US authoritis forcing the airline to pay huge fine. That's why, US passport by talking to airline.

 

However, I'm not sure what to do with German/Irish authorities. Tricky situation.

 

 

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Your kid is a US citizen so doesn't need ESTA. Book the flight using the US passport ID and use that one when checking in. When leaving Germany, show immigration the German passport. When entering the US, the American one. Your Kinderreisepass is, as you know, only valid in Europe. But if you have it, take it along as another form of ID. They'll see the destination on the boarding card so though you are stopping over in Ireland, the final destination in the US and the Kinderreisepass is irrelevant then.

 

Your child's passport is valid until it expires (that sounds stupid, I know). Sure, she's not a baby anymore, but it's still a valid form of ID. My son, US/German, has eye color listed a green in his German passport (baby photo). They're now brown! We got his US passport when he was 3 1/2, but we had no issues with German immigration when he used his baby passport.  

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57 minutes ago, Elfenstar said:

When leaving Germany, show immigration the German passport. When entering the US, the American one. Your Kinderreisepass is, as you know, only valid in Europe. But if you have it, take it along as another form of ID.

Importantly, a child cannot have both a German electronic passport (the world-wide valid things we mostly all have) and a Kinderreisepass. I can only get the Kinderreisepass if I turn in her German e-passport. 

As a German citizen, leaving the EU, she must show a valid German passport. She would only have a valid Kinderreisepass, and she can't go outside the on a Kinderreisepass...

I know that once we are out of Germany, she'll be fine, but the question is if we can get passed the German officials.

 

1 hour ago, Elfenstar said:

Your child's passport is valid until it expires (that sounds stupid, I know). Sure, she's not a baby anymore, but it's still a valid form of ID. My son, US/German, has eye color listed a green in his German passport (baby photo). They're now brown! We got his US passport when he was 3 1/2, but we had no issues with German immigration when he used his baby passport.  

 

Lucky you. Not so for me, as I wrote already, last time they hardly let us on the plane to England, nevermind the USA. Probably doesn't help that my kid was 3 months in her photo, not 3.5 years.

Not only was I told by the German immigration official that they would likely not manage to get on another plane with that passport, but I can quite imagine that there is a German rule that a passport becomes invalid if the photo no longer resembles the person. I found this, though I don't know it's original source:

 

"Babys und Kleinkinder verändern sich rasend schnell in den ersten Lebensjahren. Was viele nicht wissen – wenn Ihr Baby, Kleinkind oder Kind zum Zeitpunkt Ihrer Reise keine Ähnlichkeit mehr hat mit dem Lichtbild im Pass, dann kann es sein, dass der Pass nicht mehr akzeptiert und für ungültig erklärt wird. Achten Sie also unbedingt auf dieses Detail und lassen Sie das alte Passfoto rechtzeitig gegen ein aktuelles austauschen (Kinderreisepass) oder beantragen Sie rechtzeitig einen neuen Pass (ePass und Personalausweis)"

from here: http://www.lsb-berlin.net/fileadmin/bilder/lsb-redakteure/Vereinsberatung/Ausweisdokumente_fuer_Kinder.pdf

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