Apartment handover with landlord (Übergabe)

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I just noticed something and I am now very, very confused. The dates are not matching up:

 

Along with the cover letter which states that I wasn't present at the handover that happened on 30.04, I have received a "Übergabeprotokoll für Wohnunggen/Appartements" which has 6 pages. On the first page under "Bemerkungen" it states "Abnahme nochmals am 12.5.11". At the bottom of the page under the section "Es wird bestätigt, dass vorstehende Angaben zutreffend sind" there are two spaces for "Ort,Datum" and next to that "Unterschrift Mieter". Then on the line below it's the same, but it says "Unterschrift der Vermieterin" The space where I am supposed to sign is empty, but the place/date typed is "München, 29.04,2011" The same date is typed next to the Vermieterin. Under "Unterschrift der Vermieterin" it is signed "i.v. xxxxx" (xxxxx meaning the guy who did the inspection the next day i.e 30.04.2011)

 

So did they do this inspection (where they found all these defects) on 29.04.2011? One day BEFORE the actual handover was supposed to happen and considered that to be the handover? Even though I was still had possessions of the keys and I told him that I will have the apartment cleaned and ready the next day for the actual handover?

 

I was supposed to move out of the apartment on 30.04 (last day of my work contract). 29.04 was a Friday. It was my last day of work (I had the saturday off) I came home that day (Friday) at around 3:30 and I met with the guy in the apartment who was supposed to do the handover the next day.

 

and what inspection took place on 12.05.2011??

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Update:

 

Spoke to someone at the housing office and she told me that the person who did the Übergabe wasn't actually authorized to do it (?!?) She accepted her mistake for stating in the letter that I wasn't present at the übergabe. She also accepted her mistake for the wrong date on the übergabe protokol. She said those mistakes are only "formfehler". She claims that she had a look at the apartment herself and she would not want to rent it to someone else in it's current condition.

 

Solution:

 

Hire a cleaning crew to come over and clean the apartment. Cost: ~ €100. The employer pays 50% and I pay 50%. My kaution (minus €50) was deposited into my account.

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Glad to hear it turned out ok.

 

I would just like to add, please take pictures but a copy of the photos needs to be sent to the landlord! The day you do the first übergabe where you and the landlord agree about the existing condition of the flat, take pictures then. And have all the problems listed in the protokol, as any problems must be agreed by both parties. Finally send the landlord a copy of the photos with a letter stating this was the agreed state of the flat when you moved in.

 

We've had some small problems in this area before and were advised by the Mieterbund. It sounds like a lot of hassle and you may be thinking that your wonderful landlord would never give you any grief, but better to be safe than sorry!

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Reviving an old thread just to ask for some advice on my upcoming übergabe. I've been living in a 100+ year old apartment, and have recently moved out. My neighbours had been told by our landlady that whenever I moved out, they could immediately take over my lease (they want 2 apartments beside each other). So I found a new place, resigned from the old one, and then the landlady decided she had changed her mind and they couldn't have the apartment, she wanted me to pay double rent till the end of the contract (another 2 months) and then she'd "see" if they could have it. OK, annoying, but whatever, its her prerogative to change her mind.

 

I thoroughly scrubbed the place down and called for a handover appointment. No answer. The landlady and her boyfriend entered the apartment without my permission (cannot prove it) and have decided that the mold on the bathroom window sill is so bad, that I will have to replace the sill, or lose bond/kaution money. This has been relayed to me by the neighbours, who spoke to them. Now, the place is over 100 years old, it's not properly ventilated.They already had to replace part of the kitchen due to a mold issue. After every shower, no matter what season, I stood the window open to air it out. I also cleaned the sill semi-regularly. It is a little black right in the very corners, but has been that way since I moved in. I've scrubbed at it with a toothbrush and cleaning products, but the paint has also flaked away over time. Assuming the landlady ever calls me back for a handover appointment, does she have the right to withhold money for a mold situation that has come about simply because the apartment is so old?

 

Thanks for any advice. I'm going back again this week to give it another scrub and take pictures, and I will have a (German) witness with me assuming the handover ever comes about.

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Further to the above, if I have an agreement with my neighbour that she will take over my lease one month before the end of my notice period, does the landlady have the right to veto that? Can she force me to keep paying until the end of the notice period, and only then let the new tenant take over?

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I have some questions about handover from landlord to me.

So I downloaded ubergabeprotokoll, which contains 3 pages, will bring with me during my inspection.

In that paper where you should remark all defects is a text regarding utilization of my deposit. I'm unable to properly translate and what should be written in empty spaces.

 

erfolgt ohne vorbehalt

erfolgt unter vorbehalt der durchfuhrung o.g.anderungen und reparaturen bis zum___________

werden die mangel nicht innerhalb der gennanten frist und/ oder nicht einwandfrei beseitigt, werden die mangel auf kosten des mieters beseitigt; unberuhrt bleiben hiervon die rechte des vermieters bei versteckten mangeln

Der vermieter hat mit beendigung des mietverhaltnisses keine weiteren anspruche mehr gegen den/die mieter

die vermieter zahlt die vom mieter gezahlte kaution innerhalb von _____zuruck

die vermieter zahlt die vom mieter gezahlte kaution nach durchfuhrung der o.g. arbeiten und reparaturen innerhalb von ____ zuruck

der vermieter zahlt die vom mieter gezahlte kaution ggf. nach erstellung einer nebenkostenbrechnung zuruck

 

What means "Bei einzug" and "bei auszug" right at the beginning. I suppose you must underline one of them whether you are moving in or out?

 

Also am I correct that in accordance to German law tenant is no longer responsible for doing a paint job or any kind of renovation after termination?

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Further to the above, if I have an agreement with my neighbour that she will take over my lease one month before the end of my notice period, does the landlady have the right to veto that? Can she force me to keep paying until the end of the notice period, and only then let the new tenant take over?

 

Your agreement with your neighbour isn't worth the paper it's written on. You seem to have overlooked the fact that your landlady is the owner of the apartment, so any contractual agreement would need to be made with her.

 

Or do you have permission from your landlady to sublet your flat? Then I suppose you could sublet it for the one month remaining of your contract, - but at the end of that time, it's up to the landlady to decide to whom and under what conditions she'll rent out the flat.

 

Your landlady is perfectly within her rights to demand rent from you until the end of the notice period.

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Thanks the.frollein – I don’t think I made it clear. I am very well aware the landlady is the owner of the flat and all agreements are with her etc etc. My question was, if the neighbour is moving in to the apartment at the end of my lease, as in – she too has signed a contract with the landlady to move in on October 1 – and the neighbour and I agree she wants to move in one month before my lease “officially” ends, can the landlady stop that. I guess you have also answered the question, because it’s technically subletting and can only take place if the landlady agrees. Even if the next person already has a contract for that exact apartment and just wants to hurry things up a bit.

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Ah right - that's a different animal entirely. Sorry, I only read your last posting, so didn't see you'd mentioned that earlier.

 

Since your neighbour is your Nachmieter, and already has a rental contract with the landlady for the period after your contract ends, there should be no problem in approaching your landlady and asking whether you can leave a month early, and your neighbour's contract can start a month early.

 

Might be good if your neighbour can approach the landlady and ask, since your relations with the landlady seem a wee bit fraught.

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Hi guys,

I have doubt about how to behave with my landlord. Any advice would be appreciated. This is my story

I hand over my apartment in Jena end of Sep. They claimed that the painting was not good enough and I must pay for new painting. For that they sent me a bill of 300 Euros. But just from them not from a painter.

On the other hand I have left some small stuff which where useful but I could not take with me, near the garbage can hoping somebody would take them. They called me some days later that I should have taken them. So I sent a friend (I do not live in Jena anymore) to put them in the garbage cans. After about one week I received a letter that the stuff were not properly taken care of and I have to pay 200 euros for that. I contacted my friend and he said that he disposed all the stuff. Just for a couple of them there where not enough room in the cans. Not because they were too big because the cans were full. Plus the area around cans was full  of garbage. So I called them and refused their claim and they said that they have photos which they will send me. 

After some days and not receiving any email I contacted them through email and asked again for photos plus the proper bill for repainting the flat. I just received a letter some days later that they do not have photos but they are sure about their claim and their guy has seen the stuff. And they will keep their claim. No reaction to my request for bill.

I was thinking about sending a letter refusing their claim totally and asking them to prove. Plus asking again for proper bill for painting. Do you think is it a good idea? How they would react? I am open to any suggestion.

Thanks

Reza

 

P.S. My landlord was a company not an individual.

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As I understand it, they can't charge you for repainting until you've lived there for 6 years. Unless you redecorated while you were there and made a mess of it/painted in non-neutral colours. 

 

As ever, I think the best course of action is to join the mietverein and ask them to write to the landlord on your behalf.

 

And in future, don't hand the keys back until you've got a signed statement from the landlord that everything is in order or setting out what you both agree needs fixed. 

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Thanks for your answer 

Actually we signed the Protokol and I agreed to pay for painting. Since we the flat was newly painted when we got it and we left some stains on the walls. I tried to repaint the flat myself but honestly the result was not so good. May be it was better not to touch the walls at all.

What about the trash. Do you think my idea of rejecting is a good one. I am true that they are in a position which requires proving, or it is the other way?

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Hello everyone

 

I hope it is ok to revive this old thread.

My question also relates to the Ubergabe of a flat 'as is'.

 

We signed a new contract for a flat, in an 'unrenovated' condition.

There is clause saying that we accept its condition 'as-is' and that we take over from the previous tenant the obligations of repairs due.

 

The flat is in a good condition, it doesn't need to be gutted or anything. There may a mark on the laminate that can't be removed.

 

I would like to ask if anyone knows what are the implications of this, versus a renovated flat.

What should we especially beware of?

 

Also, why would the Hausverwaltung want this, instead of asking the previous tenants to do all repairs required before they leave?

 

Thank you to anyone that can help!

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They probably kept the previous tenant's deposit.

 

Photograph every thing that you think is substandard. It may not help since you already signed the contract.

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Thank you for your reply :)

 

The Abnahme from the previous tenant is at the same time as our Übergabe...

So I don't think there is a verdict on their deposit yet. 

 

Anything else? 

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@sue fishnet I am not sure of whether when you say "repairs" you really mean "repairs" or renovation.

 

It's customary for each tenant to either receive a flat without renovations and having to renovate himself before moving in and then leaving for the next tenant as is when moving out, or renovated and then having to renovated himself when the lease is terminated so that the next tenant also gets the property in a freshly renovated state. In this sense "renovated" means freshly painted and little else.

 

Repairs are for things that are not working (broken windows, a defective boiler, leaks, etc.) Repairs are the responsibility of the landlord to correct at his expense, although German law does allow for the tenant to be burdened "Bagatellreparaturen" (minor repairs amounting to up to 150 euros a year off the top of my head) in the lease. If you are expected to have major repairs done at your expense, I suspect they are trying to take you for a ride. I don't think that's permissible by law and any clauses in the lease to that effect would not be enforceable. You  better check with the Mietverein about that.

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