Why is it so hard to buy a flat in Munich?

157 posts in this topic

Hutcho,

 

Yes, I have noticed it, but the problem is, I checked different NeuBau projects in other areas of Munich (a lot costlier as well), are also in the same kfw 85 ( EnEV 2009). I haven't found anything below that rating.

 

More over this project has Solar panels for water heating and only if necessary uses the extra inefficient energy sources.

 

But location wise, do you find any negative things about this project?

Some are like

- You depend on Riem Arcaden for even grocery shopping

- No school in the area (Again should go to MesseStadt, even though near)

 

** Also the project is almost 95% sold off. I thought the Germans or other buyers would be picky as well regarding this kfw 85

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I don't know too much about that area. Being close to the S-Bahn is an advantage though (and the S2 runs every 10 minutes during peak times too I believe).

 

They try to sell the solar panels as some cool, modern extra but actually they are required to have them by law now if they choose a non-renewable heating system (which in this case is no doubt gas). So again, the reason they have solar panels is just because they are being cheap and putting in gas rather than using a Waermepumpe or other such modern heating system.

 

Also, if 95% are sold, probably only the crappy ones are left.

 

The prices are reasonable though, so I guess you can't expect much more than the basics.

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Yes, price wise it is still good for the living area you are getting. I am not sure if we can change to a better system in future, instead of Gas? How easy it is?

 

Yes, I agree only the crappy ones are left with respect to the location within the project, but even then the others are kfw 85 as well, technically they are of same standard.

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** Also the project is almost 95% sold off. I thought the Germans or other buyers would be picky as well regarding this kfw 85

 

I think what this means is that many people in popular city centres can't afford to be that picky about any family homes that become available. Yes, it is always a good idea to get in early and get the best / biggest unit.

 

These sort of new developments on the outskirts of popular places tend to get snapped up. My rather limited experience is: (1) they are very much family areas, I as a single would never in a million years live in one; (2) they tend to be very popular with certain immigrant-background groups, but you don't usually find the western "ex-pat" types living in them; (3) it often takes quite a long time to get to the hub (OK, there's links but perhaps not so often or not so direct but, of course, no idea in this specific case) and, as you say, forget the idea of a good school nearby, kids have to commute, usually to the mature, more central ones.

 

The other thing that can contain the prices is that tenure is often what I as a Brit would consider like "leasehold" and not "freehold". That is: you own the right to live on the land / space but you don't own the land itself (which we often assume is the case with a house). That's what's made it more affordable to my friends who live in them.

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It likely wouldn't make sense price wise to upgrade later. A Waermepumpe would cost between 15k and 20k (installed). You'll never win this cost back in the savings you'd get. It only really makes sense to do it right at the beginning because you'd save the cost of the gas heating system, and also the cost of hooking up the gas (which costs at least a few grand).

 

Waermepumpe only really work well if you have floor heating. These houses include that, then I think that it wouldn't be a problem to upgrade later. Your solar heating would probably work with it too. You should ask an expert about this though.

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The other thing that can contain the prices is that tenure is often what I as a Brit would consider like "leasehold" and not "freehold". That is: you own the right to live on the land / space but you don't own the land itself (which we often assume is the case with a house). That's what's made it more affordable to my friends who live in them.

 

More affordable, but I definitely wouldn't see this type of house as an investment. The house will be losing value from the day you buy it. Also, depending on the conditions, often you will lose your house completely at the end of the lease (and you might even have to pay to get it destroyed so that the land is given back in the same condition to begin with). The leases are usually long, but even if it was 50 years, after 30 years your house isn't going to be worth much when people realise their money will be gone in 20 years.

 

Although houses probably can't be seen as a great investment anyway in most places in Germany, if they are going to go up in value (or at least hold their value), they are doing it because of land prices going up not the house. The house merely drags the price down as it gets older.

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ok, the project I mentioned is a Freehold type and not lease based. The first step of the process is that they register the Grundstueck (land) on Eigennahme (on the buyers name) and the common places as a group holding (the commong walkways, garage and etc.).

 

So I asked this and they made it clear, as I did not want any leased based types.

 

Hutcho,

 

If I decide to buy, I am opting for a Floor heating on all floors, so it seems like it should be possible to upgrade but at certain cost.

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By the way, as in the case of buying a car you can get an assessment from Dekra or others, is there a similar kind of service for the Immobilienbewertung? which does not cost a fortune but lists all the positives and negatives?

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The ones that are almost ready already totally sold out.I am not unwilling to pay and have saved the 1/3 deposit required but sadly its not enough.I am still thinking getting in bed with a Markler is the only way...

 

Here's how you do it : Sneak into an apartment that's just being built, place your towel at the entrance.. come back after 3 years once construction is complete and you have full legal rights to buy the place.

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Let us bring this back to life.

I am wondering how hard is it today to buy an apartment in München? 

 

Perhaps, some could advise the price range for someone coming to MU for work.

 

Looking for a 2-3 bedroom apartment with 80-100 m2, top floor would be best. The apartment blocks are of the most interest, the newer the better.The areas: Perlach, Maxvorstadt, Hirschgarten, Nymphenburg. 

 

I am wondering if it possible at all to do the purchase without estate agent for the unreasonable charges they ask. 

 

 

 

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I don't know why anyone would class it as "hard" to buy an apartment here.  Buying an apartment is easy, coming up with the money on the other hand, not so much.

 

For a top floor apartment in the locations you mention, you're probably looking at around 700 to 800k after costs for a 100sqm new build apartment, slightly less for an older one.  Assume 10% costs on top of the asking price if a Makler is involved, probably around 7% if not.

 

There are plenty of apartments, especially new builds, that don't have Maklers involved.

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Also, most people would not buy a place to live when coming to Germany unless they intend to live here for a long time.  Even most native Germans rent their whole lives.

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1 hour ago, Hutcho said:

I don't know why anyone would class it as "hard" to buy an apartment here.  Buying an apartment is easy, coming up with the money on the other hand, not so much.

 

 

Obviously having a big deposit is a large part of it, but presuming you do actually need the assistance of a bank, then they will have their KYC ("know your Customer") which means they want evidence of having passed the Probezeit as well as a back-log of pay cheques.

 

You need to prove you are an acceptable credit risk, ie. that they are satisfied that you will be able to service the mortgage.

 

But agree, no "harder" than anywhere else.

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Thank you for such a quick reaction.

 

I do intend to settle in Munich for a substantial amount of time. The locations are "semi" flexible, however the preference is for the international schools as well as the SBahn proximity. 

 

Indeed, the bank would be a party in the deal .. hopefully as an ally of course  :)  By the way, what is the minimum downpayment? I have heard that it is not worthy of time to look at the earlier 70th constructions for it's under par quality. (the pre-Olympics builds)

 

Would anyone recommend a "map" of Munich reflecting the quality of life (safe/not so safe) in the areas. Average income per capita in the area or similar ways to access the neighbourhoods? 

 

The reason I said it could be still tricky was that back a few years ago (when the topic has been started) anything descent was snapped of the markets in a matter of days without reaching the internet adds at all. Is it still the case? I compare it to the Netherlands where the properties are widely available at "funda.nl" even if for only a few days.

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There really aren't safe or unsafe areas in Munich.  Everywhere is safe.  There are some more upmarket areas like Bogenhausen, Maxvorstadt, Schwabing, Harlaching etc, and some less desirable ones like Neuperlach and Hasenbergl, but these are all safe.

 

The bank will likely not be interested in giving you a loan until you have some history here.  The amount of down payment required will depend on your history and what you're buying.  You can get 100% loans here too, but not if you've just moved to the city.

 

Because of extremely low interest rates, the housing market is under a lot of pressure and prices have been going up a lot.   Munich is now one of the most expensive places in the world to buy an apartment or house.

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Keep in mind that usually the top floor apartments in new developments are the first ones to sell, way before they are finished, so, even if you can come up with the money, it can be hard to find a new flat that's on an upper floor and ready to move in (or close to completion). The best deals are usually snapped up as soon as, or before, construction begins. If you need something you can move into soon you will find that there's very limited stock on offer and what there is is on a ground floor, has an ackward layout, is north-facing, or is simply overpriced and that's why it hasn't sold yet.

Usually, you'd rent first and then take your time finding what you really want and then waiting until completion so you can move in. 

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Munich is the most expensive real estate market in Germany, which is reflected both in rents and property prices. The reason is obivously high demand, by locals who want to move, e.g. because they need more space for their growing family, newcomers and generally people who "desperately" look for safe investments in current low-interest times (also foreign buyers). In such an overbought market, it may happen that a buyer without much knowledge of the city buys something with flaws for too high a price. Here's a map with the prices of different areas: Capital, Immobilien-Kompass . Move the cursor over the neighbourhood tags to see the average prices; dark red areas = most expensive. In the most sought-after inner-city areas they have reached 12,000 €/sqm for newly built objects, which is quite crazy by German standards. To read little portraits of areas, type in the neighbourhood name, e.g. München-Nymphenburg, or the name of a street.

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Maybe anyone knows is it possible to buy a single room apartment for a price around 200k ? Or i even shouldn't be bother looking ? Is it hard to buy an apartment as a foreigner or they sellers dont care that much ?  

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There are plenty of very small apartments for 200k.  You won't get the discrimination you get when renting if you're buying, they don't care who you are.

 

Unless you have a good grasp of German and a good understanding of the market here, I would be very wary of buying anything.  RainyDays posted an excellent link to the "Capital, Immobilien-Kompass" above.  Unless you can read and understand everything in that article, I wouldn't take the risk of buying anything, because you probably don't fully understand what you're getting yourself into.

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If nothing else, talking/complaining about the real estate market in München gives you an in with the locals. They complain also.

I went through the thread a bit and saw someone posting that the cost across from Ostbahnhof was about 4000€/m2 in 2011 That is now 8200+ on the Haidhausen side, or more. Usually more. There is a large development going on on the far side of Ostbahnhof, but I have not kept track of prices there.

To those who say it is not harder here in Minga to find something than other locations, it has to be said that it is weirder. There are lots of locals who want to keep their apartment and cash out. So there are apartments that are for sale by owner/occupant who want to retain the right to live there for X more years. I find that the very strange (it makes sense for the person selling, but almost no sense for a buyer). We bought an apartment from the owner (no makler) but had to bid a bit extra. And let them stay for the extra six months (not too weird).

We actually bid on a house that was being repossesed by the bank, site unseen. (it was a row house and a friend had been inside years earlier). The best part was the (re) auction was only happening because the shut in who owned/lived in the house had the original auction cancelled (she obviously had a good lawyer and social worker and some serious issues). The auction winners had to wait months if not years to actually enter 'their' house.

Germans only trust 'beton gold' as a secure savings.

Maklers are great, you can basically discount anything they say. They will tell you the sun rises in the west if it would help make the sale.

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