Why is it so hard to buy a flat in Munich?

157 posts in this topic

 

Did you know there is a possibility to get property at decent prices through forced sales at the Amtsgericht?

http://www.zwangsversteigerung.de/

 

The link given above leads to a commercial service which tries to sell you a catalogue with the details on the foreclosed properties.

There's no need to buy that catalogue, you can look them up here on the official free web site of the German courts.

 

Just search for the Land and town you're interested in, you will a list of the offers with links to exposés with photos, blueprints and descriptions.

 

At the first auction date, if your bid is the highest and:

 

  • over 70% of the price the real estate appraiser calculated, you immediately beome the owner if the creditor (most of the time a bank) doesn't withdraw the house/apartment from the auction at that point
  • between 50% (=5/10) and 70% (=7/10) of the price, the concerned parties (creditor, debtor) can ask for a second auction date
  • under 50%, then the court automatically closes the auction and fiexes a second auction date

 

 

At the second auction date, the court can accept any offer over 10% of the appraisal value, if the creditor agrees.

 

However, the apartments and houses sold via public auction aren't really bargains most of the time, either they are valued too high or you would have to invest a small fortune to bring them up-to-date.

In Munich at least the good ones get sold on the open market and don't end up there.

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I have some experience with auctions in Munich, and I can tell you that anything worth buying through them almost always gets bought up beforehand.

 

Often times the Zwangsversteigerung (forced auction/foreclosure - these are not normal auctions) are being done because people have an inheritance and have family issues on splitting the property so it comes down to this. In these cases the parties involved almost always find a solution at the last minute to avoid the auction.

 

The most often way something ends up at a Zwangsversteigerung however is because someone is broke. These people are normally more than willing to make a deal shortly before the auction once they realise they are actually going to lose their house.

 

There are hundreds of builders and scumbag real estate agents that scour these auctions looking for just these people. When they find one of interest, they look in the Grundbuch to see who owns the property and then try and get in touch. Once in touch, they almost always manage to make a deal before the auction.

 

You'll see lots of them disappear from that site just before they are due to go under the hammer.

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YvonneLLP, I can totally empathize with your pain!

 

For an extremely frustrating, long 18 months we were in a very similar boat here in Düsseldorf... I too ,was convinced there was an underground market, or some underhanded tactics that were required that we simply didn’t know about. We too, were denied appointments of brand new listings that had „already been sold“, and at one point were actually in written negotiations on one particular apartment (that I had made the dire mistake of becoming emotionally attached too), only to have the Markler inform us out of the blue that the owner had „just“ sold it to someone else. (How can that happen???)

 

At one point, I was so desperate I even took to approaching local businesse s (apothekes, etc) in the areas we wanted to buy in and asking if they knew of any local people who might be selling soon... (didn’t prove to be a successful method by the way... They all just thought I was completely nuts! I was even going to start checking death notices...)

 

In the end, through a markler –(I had taken to harassing quite a few of them weekly!) we managed to get a viewing of a flat that met 80% of our desired criterea -on the very day it was listed - and as we had viewed so many unsuitable/overpriced dumps – were able to make a written offer that same afternoon. Our flat was on the open market for less than 12 hours. (6 months later we discovered that our upstairs neighbours who are renting had been attempting to buy in the building for years – and were completely unaware our flat was being sold. Had they’ve known, it never would have made it to open market. Luckily, they don’t seem too resentful... but they do bring it up every now and then! ☺)

 

Don’t give up hope... I think it really is just down to luck, and being in the right place at the right time - & being ready to make an almost immediate decsision...

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You'd think that if these places get sold so quickly (which is definitely the case, we had a few houses sold on the day we viewed them, which was the first day they were on the market), that the owners would just put a higher price on them. But then I guess we're back to the original problem that YvonneLLP brought up, that places are over priced. But that is supply and demand for you (and shows that they are not actually overpriced). I would rather everything be more expensive than I expect but I can actually have it if I want it.

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Hutcho - I agree, I would also rather than things be more expensive but that they were actually there!

I mean there is overpriced and overpriced, I am more than willing and I am sure that most are to pay a premimum for the property they would really like, lets say for the sake for argument 20K or so, but when you are looking at the prospect of 100K because its on the open market then that is just taking the piss. What is the annoying thing is that you know that there are possibilities for getting things at the market prices if you are at the right place at the right time and this 100K extra is not necessary...

Going to have to start asking around... BECAUSE lets face it, this thing is like all others in life, its not about what you have, its all about WHO you know!

 

SO TTers, if you here of ANYTHING no matter how big/small that someone is thinking of selling. PLEASE PM me!!

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Just came across this ad in the free Saturday paper:

 

Ruhige 2-Zi.-Whg., Mü., Wfl. ca. 60 qm, S-Bahn-Nähe, 5.OG, Lift, Balkon, 210.000 €,

Zuschr. unter Chiffre ABC0310Z an den ABC Verlag, Moosacher Str. 56-58, 80809 München

 

A friend of mine looks for a place, but not in this price range, so try to grab it, if there's some interest. Chiffre means you'll write a letter to the publishing company and add a line

- Chiffre ... -

in the address field. The letter then gets forwarded to the address known to the publisher, usually without any cost to the sender. The recipient can have it sent either daily or weekly to his/her address, or pick them up al gusto. That's the traditional way to do business.

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I wouldn't go nuts about that place. It's on a very busy street, in a pretty bad location with bad access to autobahns, definitely in one of the worse parts of town with lots of industry and cheap housing (if there is such a thing in Munich really). Only good news is it's near the U3. You can do a lot better for 210k I reckon.

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Ahh, ok, read it too quickly. Might be ok then if it's located in a good area (although S-Bahn-Naehe probably means either outside of town, or along the Stammstrecke, which isn't usually that great).

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We also have to remember that the "open market" is quite small here (the "Eigentumwohnung" bit). A heck of a lot of apartment blocks are not in that market but owned by building groups or whatever - that's what most people I know live in whatever their "status" or pay or whatever. And that a lot of those privately owned places are rented. Add on the points made here (propensity not to sell, word-of-mouth getting you ahead, the desire to be in the "sought-after" areas etc etc).

 

That's one of the reasons people go new build or renovation - fresh additional supply hitting the market often in the areas people currently want.

 

It's not like, say the UK, were it seems like pretty much all of the housing stock anybody would want to live in is privately owned and thus potentially for sale.

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Just checked this link that billybob placed here http://www.globalpro...-house-prices/G and thought that the prices quoted for Munich apartments were definitely over the top. What do other people think? If they are realistic I'm ready to put my west-Schwabing flat on the market now and make a decent profit. Also couldn't print out any of the information available on their website. I wonder why?

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Your link doesn't work. In fact, it looks like it isn't even close to working.

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I would not sell just to bank a profit, only if selling fitted my wider life needs (and I doubt prices will fall much so you wil probably hold the value in a good area). Sure, 25%+ raises in market values in recent years are not unusual in "hotspots" here. I'd also get a valuation. There's various "tiers" in the market. Some areas better than others. Some "second hand" depreciate more that the general values. And so on.

 

My "other half" has found somewhere (mentioned that earlier). Met his spec (4 rooms, new build, central, c. 100 sq m, under 500k), so he is happy. At some point you have to make that leap and do it. Otherwise, you just get passed by those that do. This may just be us but, in the scheme of things, we don't bother about a few k here or there (and neither did my ex of indeed most of my family) because (1) paying more for a better area tends to pay back in capital gains later and easier / better life (2) it is small over a lifetime of earnings and we can earn a bit more if we really have to and (3) once you have invested the capital, it has "inflation-proofed" your hosing cost for decades and remains yours you can use it, such as by renting out or mortgaging to release funds. I have no regrets about going "top end" in DA - easy to say in the light of those gains but it is one of my better decisions :) .

 

Prices also do not seem that absurd to me (maybe a London view) but most sought-after places across the world are in this range now. There is a flight to quality in the popular places and also a global tendency to hoard capital assets. Without wishing to resort to EA / media type hyperbole, that trend is probably only going to increase. So miss out now, it may well only get harder in future years.

 

I wonder if OP has any update for us?

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Oh dear, OP, don't give up :( . Hammer your spec again and you can probably find a requirements / budget fit. Sounds to me that the key is for you to find an area that matches them. Although b/f and I both prioritised "best area" and squeezed our requirements - we know a central townhouse or penthouse cannot be had for 400k - I know plenty of people who did it the other way because they wanted that. They found those places, usually a bit out of town, in the places that are being "gentrified" by people pushed out of the top areas.

 

Intelligence on some new areas from locals might help, perhaps? I've left b/f to get on with his buy, but I heard that "Westend" is the upcoming area (ie. round the station) so that might give better value. (Usual gentrification arguments flying round).

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Ok all as requested Spec again...

 

Apartment 3-4 rooms

Ab. (above 80 squares)

Haidhausen, Au, Bogenhausen or other city central but pref Ost

Would prefer Altbau with a balcony.

Price Up to 5000EUR per square meter

 

If anyone hears of anything please let me know.

Not interested if it is already listed on Immoscout or Immowelt/net.

 

Thanks all! Would be grand if the search was over soon. It's hard work! : )

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Well, maybe pretty polly has something for you ;) . My b/f is in the field and bought with a developer (contacts, contacts, contacts). But I think the block was also on immoscout because almost everything is (no agency fee of course). My own I first saw in a local print paper freesheet (district, not even whole town). Advertising is often that local, so perhaps do not forget to look there as well.

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OP - I went throw your situation 2 years ago. Actually you need only 3 things: enough money, luck, ability to decide quickly (< 1 hour).

I don't believe you need special relations to anyone. Why would someone sell cheap to a friend when they can rip off whoever?

Keep trying!

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I don't believe you need special relations to anyone. Why would someone sell cheap to a friend when they can rip off whoever?

 

It's about being top of the list when the good stuff comes up right now. The price is the same, whoever. The markets in the expensive places are much, much hotter than even two or three years ago (but even then the sort of place Yvonne specs went like hotcakes). If you look on immoscout or wherever, there is only a handful of the sort people want on offer in the popular districts of the more expensive places (call it 500k in Munich, zero in Altstadt).

 

Even renting. Last mate I know who rented a place out got over 500 enquiries. Really, that is just how hot it is, how high demand is for the "right" places where monied professionals want to live. You can't easily be just one of the herd now.

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Thanks for the support all!

We will get there in the end and swimmer you are right, I expect no favourable treatment re price, it's simply about being the first one to know!

 

It's a slow process but I am sure it will work out in the end... and then I will be back asking you all for decorating tips!

 

: )

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