Filing a tax return - help on how to file

3,376 posts in this topic

On 3/2/2022, 8:30:06, kiplette said:

Met a recently retired (ie. not an actual Rentner, state-pension-wise) ex-military lady at the weekend who isn't sure if she needs to fill in a tax return.

She is registered here and her income is from her military pension in the UK and a UK rental property and is therefore taxed there.

A mate suggested she should do her UK tax return and send that to the Finanzamt as an Anhang to a German tax return, she hopes she doesn't have to do anything at all. I presume she needs to do it all properly, but maybe it won't be horribly complicated.

If her only income is not taxable in Germany, but only subject to Progressionsvorbehalt, then she does not have to file a German tax return:

If she has any income that is taxable by Germany, e.g. a German salary that is not a mini job or income from currency speculation, she will have to file a German tax return and in it declare both her UK military pension and her UK rental profit calculated according to German rules: 

 

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I absolutely love this mega tread. It has helped me a lot in the past. 

 

Now I am in a little bit of a predicament. I have a number of funds (100% containing stocks), bought in a monthly savings plan, in a foreign depot, because I want to keep a depot in the home country (EU country if it matters).

 

The first problem is when it comes to selling a bunch in the frame of re-balancing. My foreign bank doesn't provide a statement on winnings/losses. They simply note the number of parts sold, to what price. How would I go about figuring out the profit when different parts have different acquisition costs. Also, I need to remember/document properly for the future what parts have been sold and taxed for, so I make the correct calculation and taxation next time I sell. 

Is there a good solution for this? I can't be the only one in the world with this problem  :).   

 

The second problem is not a problem this year, but it will be in the future. To calculate the vorabpauschale for the funds get very tricky when there are 5 funds bought every month, in a foreign currency. Is there some kind of program to calculate the vorabpauschale? 

 

Thanks and have a lovely week, and a great tax season everybody!!  :) 

 

 

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I have a further tax question, but I thought I should add it to this thread, rather than to the one I started (on a specific subject).

 

My public-health insurer (TK) wrote to me at the start of the year, stating how much I should state in my tax return for 2021 of the following items:

 

Zeile 16: Gezahlte Beiträge zur Krankenversicherung

Zeile 18: Gezahlte Beiträge zur Pflegeversicherung

 

It is kind of tricky, because they add amounts from 2020, when I first arrived in Germany in October (and in my tax return for 2020, I still went ahead and declared the exact amount that I paid in 2020). However, they write: Auch wenn hier ältere Zeiträume angegeben sind, wurden diese in 2021 gebucht und gehören in dieses Steuerjahr. Das bedeutet: Die gemeldeten Daten berühren keine älteren Steuerbescheide. Sounds like double counting to me!

 

A further conundrum is that they state that, for tax reasons, we will only state your contribution for December 2021 if it has been received by December 31, 2021. We automatically take later payments into account in the following year. My contribution for December 2021 was indeed only paid in January 2022.

 

So should I go ahead and write in Zeile 16 and 18 the exact amounts that they suggest? The amount they give is actually slightly more than I *really* paid in 2021 (based on monthly contribution x 12). In any case, I am not able to independently divide up myself for December 2021 how much is Krankenversicherung and how much is Pflegeversicherung, as I do not know the formula for splitting my monthly contributions between these two things (to be honest, I thought it all came under Krankenversicherung).

 

 

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On 18/05/2016, 11:20:50, PandaMunich said:

@yauhen

You don't fill in anything into your tax return because of that Direktversicherung.

This is an insurance that is not connected to income tax now, since it is paid from untaxed money - you will end up paying income tax on it once it gets paid out to you when you reach pension age.


Dear PandaMunich. Thank you for keeping this community up and running. Helps a lot for a beginner.

I have the Direktversicherung being added and removed from the pay slip after LS, Soli, RV and AV were paid. KV and PV are not extracted.
The situation is that the global brutto is increased with the amount of Direktversicherung sum and this changes the progressive tax rate. In the end the Elster reports that one has to additionally pay under the increased tax rate plus the missing KV and PV. I have an overcharge of several hundreds I paid last year to FA.

 

I wonder if there is any field where one adds the DV amount to make Elster understand I did not get this amount of money. Hope it was clear to understand. Any direction is cordially welcome. 

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On 04/04/2022, 18:03:59, Carlyle said:

I have a further tax question, but I thought I should add it to this thread, rather than to the one I started (on a specific subject).

 

My public-health insurer (TK) wrote to me at the start of the year, stating how much I should state in my tax return for 2021 of the following items:

 

Zeile 16: Gezahlte Beiträge zur Krankenversicherung

Zeile 18: Gezahlte Beiträge zur Pflegeversicherung

 

 

It is kind of tricky, because they add amounts from 2020, when I first arrived in Germany in October (and in my tax return for 2020, I still went ahead and declared the exact amount that I paid in 2020). However, they write: Auch wenn hier ältere Zeiträume angegeben sind, wurden diese in 2021 gebucht und gehören in dieses Steuerjahr. Das bedeutet: Die gemeldeten Daten berühren keine älteren Steuerbescheide. Sounds like double counting to me!

 

A further conundrum is that they state that, for tax reasons, we will only state your contribution for December 2021 if it has been received by December 31, 2021. We automatically take later payments into account in the following year. My contribution for December 2021 was indeed only paid in January 2022.

 

So should I go ahead and write in Zeile 16 and 18 the exact amounts that they suggest? The amount they give is actually slightly more than I *really* paid in 2021 (based on monthly contribution x 12). In any case, I am not able to independently divide up myself for December 2021 how much is Krankenversicherung and how much is Pflegeversicherung, as I do not know the formula for splitting my monthly contributions between these two things (to be honest, I thought it all came under Krankenversicherung).

 

 

 

 

Answering my own question here. The answer is yes. The Finanzamt told me that health and long-term care insurance contributions are to be claimed in the year in which they were actually paid. Payment of the December 2021 contributions in January 2022 belong to 2022 for tax reasons.

 

 

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hello, first time filling the Anlage-KAP, I have only the below summary from my depot

 

I haven't sold any investments but these went up in value so the "Gesamertrag Ihres Depots vor individuellen Steuern" shows a positive number, but I haven't made a "profit" on it yet. 

I cannot understand where are the already taxes on dividends I paid already.

 

My question is, shall I ask for a different, more detailed, summary to my bank or is all the information I need here? 

 

thank you for your replies

2022-04-19 09_41_05-Clipboard.png

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8 minutes ago, WhyNot_DE said:

My question is, shall I ask for a different, more detailed, summary to my bank

Ask them to issue you a "Steuerbescheinigung".

This will tell you what to fill into which line of Anlage KAP.

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4 hours ago, PandaMunich said:

Ask them to issue you a "Steuerbescheinigung".

This will tell you what to fill into which line of Anlage KAP.

thank you as always @PandaMunich searched for it and it says they send it during the first quarter, so I will wait until end of the month for it

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Hello,

Posting it here as I found this thread to be more active.

I have a couple of queries which I would like to get clarified.
I came to Germany on student visa which I finished in mid 2018 and since 1st Nov 2019 I am working full time. I have already filed my ITR for 2020 (unfortunately) and now in the process of filing for 2021.
 

Topic 1:  Doppelte Haushaltsfuehrung

So here's the rub. I did not claim DH in 2020. and now while I was entering the DH for 2021, there was a point 1 (see the attachment)

625c4af77f12d_DHtaxfrom2020.png.7dd28023 

The double household was established for professional reasons on : 01.01.2020 (since the 2 months of 2019 wouldnt matter)

I have a few questions now.

1. Can I claim DH for 2020 retrospectively with 2021, when I have already filed the ITR for 2020? (my rent+utilities+furnitures for 2020 and 2021 combined comes to 10,000 EUR which is anyways under the annual limit of 12,000 EUR)
(I had transfered money to dads account in 2020 as part of their expenses, but I didnt know abt it then to claim under Unterhalt. So I will be submitting this as proof for the DH annual maintenance payment for 2020)

2. For DH, is it important that the maintenance + utility amount be transferred at the beginning of the year itself (similar to Unterhalt) ? or just any time during the year but definitely more than 10% of the yearly maintenance cost (To be safe I transferred 50% itself) of the apartment in India.
I have already acquired all the proofs necessary for me to be able to claim this.

Topic 2: Unterhaltserklarung (sent money from 1st Jan 2021 itself)

My dad is retired and is receiving pension although not much. My dad is <65 but he has a medical condition since 3 years and the expenses are too high with the hospitalization costs and medicines. I already got a medical certificate from the doctor stating that he is not able to do any work and have asked an official translator to get the document translated in German. I have the U-form notorised and signed and have all the bank statements.
So from my dads side everything is fine.


3. On the other hand, my mom has been a homemaker. She never had any income and she is also <65. She isnt exactly fit either but she is taking care of dad 24/7. 
Since I had transferred the amount to both my mom and dad accounts, does she also need a certificate from a doctor, Even though she has no illness??
How can I go about claiming this? Do I need to submit any additional proof?


Your valuable inputs are much aappreaciated.
Thank you
Vish

 

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I have capital gains I need to claim from foreign investments (line 18 Anlage KAP). Elster is not adding the 801€ deduction for these, though " noch nicht ausgeschöpfter Sparer-Pauschbetrag =0" . Earlier when I had my taxes done by an accountant this would show up on the Bescheid, though. Why would this be excluded?

 

Edit: I think I figured it out. I split the capital gains 50/50 between my Anlage KAP and my wife's. Now it's giving the 801€ credit. Originally I just put it on mine.

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2 hours ago, AlexCLE said:

I have capital gains I need to claim from foreign investments (line 18 Anlage KAP). Elster is not adding the 801€ deduction for these, though " noch nicht ausgeschöpfter Sparer-Pauschbetrag =0" . Earlier when I had my taxes done by an accountant this would show up on the Bescheid, though. Why would this be excluded?

 

Edit: I think I figured it out. I split the capital gains 50/50 between my Anlage KAP and my wife's. Now it's giving the 801€ credit. Originally I just put it on mine.

Nope, you didn't figure it out.

You are not allowed to declare capital income that was in your name on your wife's Anlage KAP.

 

What you probably did wrong was that you didn't fill in "0" also into the second field, the one which is actually about line 18:

6276525e8724a_2022-05-0713_01_43-ELSTER-

--> you should then see -1,602€ Sparerfreibetrag in your income tax calculation, since as a married couple, you get 2*801€.

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On 03/03/2022, 23:12:11, PandaMunich said:

If her only income is not taxable in Germany, but only subject to Progressionsvorbehalt, then she does not have to file a German tax return:

If she has any income that is taxable by Germany, e.g. a German salary that is not a mini job or income from currency speculation, she will have to file a German tax return and in it declare both her UK military pension and her UK rental profit calculated according to German rules: 

 

@PandaMunich This is very interesting. The Finanzamt are insisting that I submit tax returns for every year, starting in 2014 - even though I have not worked in Germany since 2014.  They say I don't have to, /unless/ they ask me to, which they are.  Prior to 2014, I was working here as Selbstständige, and filed here every year. All taxes due are paid up to date.

For the sake of a peaceful life, I'm contemplating downloading the forms (but which forms, given that I'm not working?) and just putting "0.00" everywhere that looks plausible and giving them that, possibly along with my UK tax returns.

Apart from the fact that my Steuerberater has retired, I don't much feel like handing over €00s for putting a bunch of zeros in. 

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@MaineCoon You say you "have not worked in Germany since 2014."

This begs the question: have you been working since 2014?

And if yes, as what?

 

If you were working as a freelancer in the UK while still being resident in Germany, you should have taxed your freelance profit in Germany, not in the UK.

And if you have been working as the employee of a UK company while being resident in Germany, Germany would had the entire taxation rights on your salary, with only the taxation rights for days on which you worked while physically being in the UK being taken away again from Germany and given to the UK.

 

If you retired in 2014, did you tell the Finanzamt back then that you gave up your freelance business

What have you been living off since 2014? A UK state pension?

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Hallo, and thank you for replying.

I have income from two sources: (a) UK pensions, and (b) UK rental income. I file and pay taxes in the UK for both.

I did retire from our GmbH in 2014, and I did tell the Finanzamt. The GmbH was dissolved shortly afterwards.

Nevertheless, the Finanzamt has continued to press me for annual filings. I went into their offices in 2017 (via a web appointment) and spoke to some random lady, who merely reiterated as nauseam: "You Must File".

Since 2015, I have been working (for free) for a non-profit based in NL. I do not, and have not, received any remuneration;  I bear the incidental costs of this work myself (computer, electricity, travel, etc, etc.).

(It's a "I profited from the world's infrastructure and economy for decades; it's time to give back" thing.)

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Depending on what kind of UK pension, it may be taxable in Germany.

 

Please read article 17 of the double taxation agreement (DTA) between Germany and the UK: https://www.bundesfinanzministerium.de/Content/DE/Standardartikel/Themen/Steuern/Internationales_Steuerrecht/Staatenbezogene_Informationen/Laender_A_Z/Grossbritannien/2010-11-23-Grossbritannien-Abkommen-DBA-Gesetz.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=3

 

The default is that any UK pension is taxed by Germany as your country of residence, that's article 17 (1) of the DTA.

 

Then, in article 17 (2), for UK state pensions, i.e. for social security pensions, the taxation right gets taken away again from Germany and given to the UK.

 

In article 17 (3), the taxation rights on pension that stem from more than 15 years of UK tax relieved contributions are taken away from Germany and given to the UK.

 

And then we have article 18 (2) which is about "government service" which means that pensions paid for UK government service, e.g. military or civil service pensions, get taxed by the UK, as long as you do not (also) have German citizenship. If you have German citizenship, they get taxed by your country of residence, Germany.

 

*****************************************

 

You don't have any capital income (interest, dividends, profit from selling stocks/funds/bonds/options) in a non-German bank/broker?

Because your worldwide capital income is taxable in Germany, as your country of residence.

If you own funds, e.g. ETF or mutual funds, you don't even need to get any income from them - if you keep them in a non-German bank/broker, you still have to manually calculate a "fictive profit" called Vorabpauschale based on their value every year and tax it in your Germany tax return.

There is a separate tax-free allowance for capital income of 801€ per person, so you may not even end up owing any tax because of your capital income, but you still have to declare it.

So that would also be a reason for a mandatory tax return in Germany.

 

If, on the other hand, you have capital income only in German banks/brokers, they will already tax it for you, including calculating and taxing the Vorabpauschale.

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I have two pensions:

1. a UK state pension

2. a UK private pension with the Prudential.

 

I have no capital income whatsoever. I hold no dividends, no stocks or bonds, no mutual funds, no unit trusts, no stock-market type investments in any country in the world.

Commerzbank persuaded me into my one-and-only foray into the stock market, against my better judgment; the week after I bought in, the stock dropped to ~13% of its buy-in value. It took years for it to get back to what I paid, at which point I sold the lot. All this was declared to the Finanzamt at the time. Never again, my nerves can't stand it.

 

I am not a German citizen.

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Unless you can prove the private pension stems from more than 15 years of tax-relieved contributions in the UK, you have a problem.

 

 

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