Claiming tax deductions

142 posts in this topic

No, your situation would only change if you switched to a Japanese work contract.

Then, you would pay Japanese income tax and social security contributions.

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Hello everyone!

 

I couldn't find an answer to my question within the several threads already opened about the Tax/Tax deductibles topic. So there it is:

 

I have attended 2 conferences (outside of Germany) during the past year and related with my work or professional activity.

I was not reimbursed through my company as I did it for my own professional development. Note that I am a regular employee.

 

Can I claim the incurred costs as training/professional development costs?

If yes, which costs? Registration fees, travel, per diem allowances,...?

 

I hope someone else has previous experience on this! Looking forward to hearing from you :)

and...thanks in advance!

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Thanks PandaMunich and...thanks for all your compelling answers/hints/tips on the taxes theme here in Toytown, really helpful!

 

I have just scheduled an appointment with a VLH advisor. Anyway, I want to gather as much information as I can and prepare all docs needed, so here's a couple more questions:

 

Which sort of documents will the Tax Authorities demand in this regard? Receipts will suffice, or should I present also payment proof (like credit card history,...)?

I have taken 2 weeks holiday after one of those conferences (this one in China). Is the flight expense still eligible as tax deductible?

Do you have any bookmarked website where the per diem rates and rules are explained? I know this one, but would be glad if you would point out a different one ;)

 

Thanks in advance!

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  1. The Finanzamt are allowed to ask for proof of payment, but usually they only want to see the invoices.
  2. Regarding the holiday, the costs are then shared between your business and your private life, i.e. you will only be allowed to claim for a part of the flight, and only for the hotel costs during the conference.
  3. That web site you found is very good.
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Hello,

 

I have a question regarding relocation costs and home-office costs.

 

- I know that housing agency costs are tax deductible when relocating from other EU country to Germany to start a job. However, in a situation when I would sign a contract for an apartment for 3 months and be charged by an agency fee of i.e. 50% of monthly rent and after 3 months extend the contract for a year for the same apartment and pay the remaining part for the housing agency fee would all the agency fees be tax deductible or only the first 50%?

 

- If working from home, I can claim tax deduction ONLY if I have a dedicated room for home-office?

- If I would rent a desk in a shared office can I deduct it from my taxes while being on normal employment contract?

 

Thanks in advance!

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in a situation when I would sign a contract for an apartment for 3 months and be charged by an agency fee of i.e. 50% of monthly rent and after 3 months extend the contract for a year for the same apartment and pay the remaining part for the housing agency fee would all the agency fees be tax deductible or only the first 50%?

 

I am wondering something similar, but with a twist that makes the question a little more complicated: What if the extension on the original rental period runs from the year of the original rental contract (i.e. 2013) into the next year (2014), and the agency fee that is then paid for this extension is paid in the next year (i.e. in 2014).

 

I think the original fee(s) paid for 2013 would be deductible on the the tax return for 2013, but am not sure what would happen to the fee paid in 2014. I would guess it can't be claimed on the 2014 tax return; or by some miracle, could it be?

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@rado



  1. All of it would count.
  2. Only if you have a separate home office. If you're an employee with the additional condition that you could only claim for it if your employer didn't provide you with a workspace.
  3. Only if you're self-employed.

 

@TY2014

All if it would count, you would just claim in different tax returns.

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@TY2014

All if it would count, you would just claim in different tax returns.

 

Do you mean all "of" it would count, or all "if" it counts?

 

If you are saying all of it would count, then that is really great news (again!!).

 

What would mystify me though, is how this is possible. Doesn't the FA allow moving expenses to be claimed only in the year the move happens? Asked differently, What rule of theirs would I cite if a Beamter at the FA asks me why I am pulling out a 2014 receipt on my 2014 tax return for a move that occurred in 2013? Can I simply say, "Because it was related, or a result of my move to Germany", or is there some other rule one would cite?

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The rule is simple: you claim for things in the year you pay for them.

If the Makler invoice is for that same flat that you moved into in order to take up your work, you can think of it as the Makler allowing you to pay his fee in instalments, one instalment in 2013, the next one in 2014.

 

So it isn't your fault that he isn't asking for his money up front, and since you are bound by the Abflußprinzip (§11 EStG) to only claim for things in the year that you actually paid them, you have to claim for his invoices in both these years.

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That is so awesome. I don't know how to thank you for all the help you are providing. You are a never-ending font of really valuable information. Thank you :)

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PandaMunich thank you very much for your help! Much appreciated!

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Ok so, I am now getting into the weeds of how to do the moving exemption. I have read the previous threads on this subject, but as often happens, it is sometimes hard or impossible to find a discussion that exactly addresses one's own situation/circumstances, so any help would be most appreciated!

 

Our general situation is that I myself am a freelance teacher and my wife works as an employee for a company. Her company didn't cough up any of the moving expenses. We paid all the money ourselves. To get the moving deduction, I think we will have to use Anlage S, Anlage N and/or my Gewinn-Verlustrechnung, but I am not sure which must be used (or what line(s) to fill in) given our circumstances.

 

Course of events (not knowing what might be important, I've gone into some detail):

 

We arrived by airplane in Germany and stayed with some friends in Munich. Shortly thereafter, my wife found a job (as a contract employee) in a city far away from Munich. In order to get her working papers processed, she registered herself at her employer's address (at the employer's suggestion). In reality though, neither she nor I ever lived there. Instead, until her working papers came through a month later, we did some traveling and, intermittently stayed at my friend's place in Munich. A week before she started her job, we took the long train ride to where she had landed her job, stayed at a hotel while flat hunting, and after finding a place, signed a 3-month contract and paid a Markler fee. Thereafter, I registered at the Markler-introduced flat (my first registration in Germany), my wife re-registered to this address (her second registration) and we returned to my friend's place to start moving all our stuff (several train rides) to our new abode. In case it's relevant I should perhaps also mention that my wife's employer's place (where she originally registered her residence) is only a stone's throw away from where the Markler put us up.

 

Name on bills (relevant?):

 

Regardless of how we eventually divided the expenses between us, depending on who placed the order for a service, each bill related to our move only has one of our names on it. For example, my wife booked the hotel we stayed at while we looked for a flat, so her name appears on the bill. Mine appears on the DHL bill to have stuff forwarded from our friend's place In Munich to our new flat. And the Markler fee and the two-for-one DB train ticket from Munich to our new home also have my wife's name on them.

 

I guess my initial questions are:

 

(1) Does the fact that my wife was first registered at her employer's place disallow her from claiming any moving expenses (like the Markler fee, etc.) related to her second registration?

 

(2) Do the different bills with different names have any impact on how we claim the deductions?

 

(3) More specifically, do I deduct anything as a freelancer on Anlage S (or on my Gewinn-Verlustrechnung), do we have to split the deductions on separate forms based on who paid what, or must we submit them all on one line on one specific form?

 

Many thanks in advance to whoever takes a shot at this complex situation!

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(1) Does the fact that my wife was first registered at her employer's place disallow her from claiming any moving expenses (like the Markler fee, etc.) related to her second registration?

 

Yes, it would complicate things so don't stress that point!

If they start asking questions you would have to explain the whole saga.

 

For all they know, your wife came to that town and stayed at a hotel that was paid by her future employer.

 

No need to go into all that registration stuff - the Finanzamt anyway has no connection to the registration database, so as long as you present the moving invoices for the second registered address (Makler, hotel, train, expenses for moving stuff to that address, and so on), you will be ok.

 

 

(2) Do the different bills with different names have any impact on how we claim the deductions?

 

Not really, after all you are married and are doing a joint tax rreturn.

In other words, what's hers is yours and inverse.

 

 

(3) More specifically, do I deduct anything as a freelancer on Anlage S (or on my Gewinn-Verlustrechnung), do we have to split the deductions on separate forms based on who paid what, or must we submit them all on one line on one specific form?

 

I would use all invoices (plus the additional flat rate Umzugspauschale, which is additional to all the other moving expenses and is meant to cover all the other miscellaneous moving expenses, see post 1418 in this very thread) as business expenses in your Gewinn/Verlustrechnung.

 

Why?

Because your wife, being an employee, anyway automatically gets a flat rate for job-related expenses of 1,000€ a year called Arbeitnehmerpauschbetrag through her employer, even if she didn't have any expenses at all, so if she now starts claiming for the moving expenses, the first 1,000€ of those moving expenses won't count.

While if you claim for them, they will count from the first cent.

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Not quite a "tax deduction", but the latest news from my company is that they are going to provide staff with free hot and cold drinks whilst working.

 

I believe I once heard that such "perks" have to be taxed.

 

Does anybody know the ins and outs of this please?

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@ MunichPanda

 

Had a chance to think over what additional things I should probably ask about the answers you so kindly gave me. :)

 

 

... you would have to explain the whole saga.

 

A "saga" it truly was!

 

 

I would use all invoices (plus the additional flat rate Umzugspauschale, which is additional to all the other moving expenses and is meant to cover all the other miscellaneous moving expenses, see post 1418 in this very thread) as business expenses in your Gewinn/Verlustrechnung.

 

That's what I was thinking too.

 

So, just to confirm:

 

(1) How do I list the moving expenses on my "G/V Rechnung"? Are they under a category I list as "Umzugskosten," or is there some other name/category under which they must be listed?

 

(2) I think I read somewhere that if I am not obliged to do VAT as a Kleinunternehmer, then I can't include the VAT that appears on any of my receipts, be they for moving expenses or anything else that goes into the "Ausgaben" of my "G/V Rechnung." Is that correct?

 

(3) Do I staple all my"Ausgaben" receipts to my "G/V Rechnung", or is it of no consequence what sequence, or order they appear in among all the docs I submit to the FA?

 

(4) I think I read that receipts should be glued on a white piece of paper. Should each page also be numbered and titled "Ausgaben Quittung" or something like that?

 

(5) With regard to post#1418, is the "4.802,77€" a fixed amount that everybody uses, or just a number relevant to the OP of post#1418?

 

(6) With regard to post#1418, I am wondering what the calculation is in our case; i.e. when you come from abroad (outside of the EU "where the voltage is different") to Munich, and then after hanging out there for a while with friends, go move on to the city where you register a residence? In that case, would Munich count merely as a stop over since we never registered a residence there (meaning we can calculate as having come from outside the EU, i.e. where the voltage is different), or would would it be a move from within Germany (not sure would % that would be)?

 

(7) With regard to post#1418, what does "second move in last 5 years According to §18 Abs. 7 AUV" mean? In our case, we moved from Asia to Australia (where we only lived and worked for 6 months) before we came to Germany. Does that count?

 

(8) when If I am correct (although I don't know what line it goes into), the "Umzugspauschale" is on Anlage N, right?

 

Hoping this will be the last I need to ask about moving expenses.

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Not quite a "tax deduction", but the latest news from my company is that they are going to provide staff with free hot and cold drinks whilst working.

 

I believe I once heard that such "perks" have to be taxed.

 

No, don't worry, they are not a geldwerter Vorteil and therefore do not have to be taxed, see here.

Only if your employer started giving you stuff to take home would it be a geldwerter Vorteil.

 

 

(1) How do I list the moving expenses on my "G/V Rechnung"? Are they under a category I list as "Umzugskosten," or is there some other name/category under which they must be listed?

 

Yes, you simply create the category Umzugskosten.

Make a list of all your Umzugskosten on a separate piece of paper, and transfer the sum into the category Umzugskosten in your GuV-Rechnung.

 

 

(2) I think I read somewhere that if I am not obliged to do VAT as a Kleinunternehmer, then I can't include the VAT that appears on any of my receipts, be they for moving expenses or anything else that goes into the "Ausgaben" of my "G/V Rechnung." Is that correct?

 

No.

As a Kleinunternehmer you claim for things just like a private person would, i.e. you simply fill in all the amounts including VAT into your GuV (and unlike VAT-charging self-employed, you do not get back from the Finanzamt the VAT on stuff you buy, but then again, you do not have to charge VAT in your own invoices and forward said VAT to the Finanzamt, so it balances out).

 

 

(3) Do I staple all my"Ausgaben" receipts to my "G/V Rechnung", or is it of no consequence what sequence, or order they appear in among all the docs I submit to the FA?

 

(4) I think I read that receipts should be glued on a white piece of paper. Should each page also be numbered and titled "Ausgaben Quittung" or something like that?

 

The Finanzamt hates staples.

Sort your receipts into the different categories (Bürobedarf, Porto, Telefon, ...) and glue them in chronological order onto white pieces of paper that are clearly headed with that catgory name, e.g. "Bürobedarf 2013". Number the pages within each category by hand in the bottom-right corner.

 

 

(5) With regard to post#1418, is the "4.802,77€" a fixed amount that everybody uses, or just a number relevant to the OP of post#1418?

 

(6) With regard to post#1418, I am wondering what the calculation is in our case; i.e. when you come from abroad (outside of the EU "where the voltage is different") to Munich, and then after hanging out there for a while with friends, go move on to the city where you register a residence? In that case, would Munich count merely as a stop over since we never registered a residence there (meaning we can calculate as having come from outside the EU, i.e. where the voltage is different), or would would it be a move from within Germany (not sure would % that would be)?

 

(7) With regard to post#1418, what does "second move in last 5 years According to §18 Abs. 7 AUV" mean? In our case, we moved from Asia to Australia (where we only lived and worked for 6 months) before we came to Germany. Does that count?

 

(8) when If I am correct (although I don't know what line it goes into), the "Umzugspauschale" is on Anlage N, right?

 

4,802.77€ is a specific salary level for state employees called A13 level 8, which is used as the basis for calculating the Umzugspauschale.

It is not the Umzugspauschale itself.

 

Since you moved here from outside the EU, a different section of the law applies to you:

 

According to §18 Abs. 3 AUV

For the spouse that moved here for a job: 21% of A13 Stufe 8 4.802,77€

For the other spouse: 21% of A13 Stufe 8 4.802,77€

For each child: 14% of A13 Stufe 8 4.802,77€

-------------------

In total 56% (if both spouses and 1 child moved here) of A13 Stufe 8: 0.56 * 4.802,77€ = 2,689.55€

 

x 80% of above total for moving from outside the EU to Germany (according to §18 Abs. 4 AUV)

= 2,151.64€

Explanation: it's less than what German employees can claim if they move from one country to another, without touching Germany, e.g. from the US to the UK.

 

+ 50% of above total because it is your second move within the last 5 years (according to §18 Abs. 7 AUV), but you have to add proof = 1,075.82€

 

TOTAL: 2,151.64€ + 1,075.82€ = 3,227.46€ = Umzugskostenpauschale

 

If you do not have a child, do the whole calculation above without the child. Your Umzugskostenpauschale will then of course be less.

Hint: without the child you should get 2,420.59€ for the Umzugskostenpauschale (= 4,802.77€ * 0.42 * 0.8 * 1.5)

 

Just to be completely clear, the Umzugskostenpauschle is just a flat allowance for miscelleanous moving expenses, i.e. it's point 7 in post 577 in Filing a tax return. As part of your moving expenses you additionally also claim for points 1 to 6 in that post, e.g. your travel costs, your costs for shipping furniture, the Makler fee and so on.

 

 

(6) With regard to post#1418, I am wondering what the calculation is in our case; i.e. when you come from abroad (outside of the EU "where the voltage is different") to Munich, and then after hanging out there for a while with friends, go move on to the city where you register a residence? In that case, would Munich count merely as a stop over since we never registered a residence there (meaning we can calculate as having come from outside the EU, i.e. where the voltage is different), or would would it be a move from within Germany (not sure would % that would be)?

 

Since you didn't register in Munich, you were just tourists and have a move from outside the EU to Germany.

For the calculation see above.

 

The whole "different voltage" stuff is no longer relevant, they simply introduced the 2 categories "move from inside/outside the EU".

 

 

(7) With regard to post#1418, what does "second move in last 5 years According to §18 Abs. 7 AUV" mean? In our case, we moved from Asia to Australia (where we only lived and worked for 6 months) before we came to Germany. Does that count?

 

It counts if you can prove that move to the Finanzamt.

Attach said proof to the tax return.

 

 

(8) when If I am correct (although I don't know what line it goes into), the "Umzugspauschale" is on Anlage N, right?

 

No. Anlage N is for employee income, i.e. it belongs to your wife.

 

The whole point I was trying to make is that you do not claim for the move on your wife's Anlage, but in your GuV.

It's more advantageous to you.

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@PandaMunich

 

Awesome ...

 

 

 

No. Anlage N is for employee income, i.e. it belongs to your wife.

 

The whole point I was trying to make is that you do not claim for the move on your wife's Anlage, but in your GuV.

It's more advantageous to you.

 

I was confused because I thought the "Pauschale" could only be claimed by her, but the rest of the moving expenses by me under my GuV. Now I understand. Thanks for clarifying that!

 

(1) [Just saw your added blue comments, but would nevertheless like to confirm ...] Just to make sure I've understood the nitty-gritty details of what you've explained: the Pauschale is presumably listed under a category like "Umzugspauschale" in my GuV, and then I have a separate category in my GuV titled "Umzugskosten" where I have a separate figure (based on receipts I add as you previously explained) that detail the DHL stuff, the train tickets, the Markler fee, etc. Is that right?

 

(2) If my GuV lists a net loss (i.e. more expenditures than turnover) for 2013, do all or any of these losses carry forward to my GuV for 2014, or is a carry-over to the next tax year only possible if my wife and I (since we are filing jointly) have a joint loss for more than the 16,000 Grundbefreiung?

 

(3) Back to Anlage N. It asks many questions that would seem irrelevant to my wife/to us? So I am wondering if all questions (as listed on Wiki ELSTER) have to be answered? I ask because, she was tax class 3 for the 6 months she worked in Germany last year, so she had no taxes deducted last year. Since we had no foreign income, only what we made in Germany, and since between the two of us that amount was less than the 16,000 EUR "Grundbefreiung" (Splittingtariff), I am wondering if it is necessary to fill out all those questions in Anlage N, or must they be answered regardless in order to be in compliance with the FA regs?

 

(4) Which, if any questions, can be ignored in Anlage N (or if it's less onerous to answer the opposite, which must be filled out?).

 

(5) Even if it is possible to ignore certain sections of Anlage N, I am wondering whether or not there would there be any tax disadvantages to not itemizing all the deductions asked about in Anlage N?

 

A few other details:

 

(6) I am not doing my taxes online, but using the paper forms ... and I can't find any place in Mantelbogen Est 1a where I can/must list which "Anlagen" I am submitting (something that the Wiki ELSTER says is required in answers 31-40). In the relevant question ranges, the 2013 paper forms only have entries for those who want their "Steuerbescheid" to go to somebody else, and then Q's regarding "Sonderausgaben." Looking carefully at the rest of the "Mantelbogen", I can't find any other place where the "Anlagen" question(s) has been transferred to. Is there a discrepancy because Wiki ELSTER has not been updated to the current forms? Asked differently, is it no longer required to list what "Anlagen" one is submitting?

 

(7) Are there any important differences between the 2012 online wiki ELSTER instructions and the 2013 paper forms that I need to be aware of. I have already noticed that the numbering is sometimes different, but have been able to find (except for #6 above) the questions asked on the 2012 online wiki ELSTER on the 2013 paper forms I am using.

 

(8) Finally, when you have no entries to make on the lines of any given "Anlage", do you add a zero or a dash ... or just leave it blank?

 

Wow ... doing this the first time is spectacularly difficult. I must say that I don't look forward to having to do the EUR in the future if I go over 17,500 EUR VAT :(

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(6) I am not doing my taxes by Elster, but using the paper forms

 

Afaik, unless you are employed, you are obliged to submit your tax return electronically - it is no longer accepted in paper form.

 

If you think it is complex doing it on paper, you'll be in for a lot of fun doing it electronically - and you also need to get an authorisation certificate before submitting.

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(1) [Just saw your added blue comments, but would nevertheless like to confirm ...] Just to make sure I've understood the nitty-gritty details of what you've explained: the Pauschale is presumably listed under a category like "Umzugspauschale" in my GuV, and then I have a separate category in my GuV titled "Umzugskosten" where I have a separate figure (based on receipts I add as you previously explained) that detail the DHL stuff, the train tickets, the Markler fee, etc. Is that right?

 

No, Umzugskosten is the overall term.

 

So, on the piece of paper titled Umzugskosten, you will have the following categories:

 

  • 1. Transportkosten
    2. Reisekosten
    3. Doppelte Mietzahlungen
    4. Kosten der Wohnungsvermittlung: Makler invoice
    5. Einrichtungskosten
    6. Nachhilfe für die Kinder
    7. Sonstige Umzugskosten: Umzugskostenpauschale

 

The sum of all these categories are your Umzugskosten. You transfer that amount into your GuV, under the category "Umzugskosten".

 

 

(2) If my GuV lists a net loss (i.e. more expenditures than turnover) for 2013, do all or any of these losses carry forward to my GuV for 2014, or is a carry-over to the next tax year only possible if my wife and I (since we are filing jointly) have a joint loss for more than the 16,000 Grundbefreiung?

 

The loss will reduce your wife's income.

Only if you loss is higher than her income will there be a resulting total loss that will be carried forward.

 

 

(3) Back to Anlage N. It asks many questions that would seem irrelevant to my wife/to us? So I am wondering if all questions (as listed on Wiki ELSTER) have to be answered? I ask because, she was tax class 3 for the 6 months she worked in Germany last year, so she had no taxes deducted last year. Since we had no foreign income, only what we made in Germany, and since between the two of us that amount was less than the 16,000 EUR "Grundbefreiung" (Splittingtariff), I am wondering if it is necessary to fill out all those questions in Anlage N, or must they be answered regardless in order to be in compliance with the FA regs?

 

(4) Which, if any questions, can be ignored in Anlage N (or if it's less onerous to answer the opposite, which must be filled out?).

 

(5) Even if it is possible to ignore certain sections of Anlage N, I am wondering whether or not there would there be any tax disadvantages to not itemizing all the deductions asked about in Anlage N?

 

You have to fill in all of Anlage N.

The Finanzamt doesn't do questions "just for a laugh".

 

 

(6) I am not doing my taxes online, but using the paper forms ... and I can't find any place in Mantelbogen Est 1a where I can/must list which "Anlagen" I am submitting (something that the Wiki ELSTER says is required in answers 31-40). In the relevant question ranges, the 2013 paper forms only have entries for those who want their "Steuerbescheid" to go to somebody else, and then Q's regarding "Sonderausgaben." Looking carefully at the rest of the "Mantelbogen", I can't find any other place where the "Anlagen" question(s) has been transferred to. Is there a discrepancy because Wiki ELSTER has not been updated to the current forms? Asked differently, is it no longer required to list what "Anlagen" one is submitting?

 

They may let it slide that you submit on paper, since you're a Kleinunternehmer and your wife an employee.

But it wouldn't hurt to familiarise yourself with ElsterFormular, the software needed for submitting electronically...

 

That section about attached Anlagen was eliminated in the 2013 version.

However, the instructions in the wiki are meant for both the 2012 and 2013 versions, so I will only get round to updating it once the 2014 version is published.

 

 

(7) Are there any important differences between the 2012 online wiki ELSTER instructions and the 2013 paper forms that I need to be aware of. I have already noticed that the numbering is sometimes different, but have been able to find (except for #6 above) the questions asked on the 2012 online wiki ELSTER on the 2013 paper forms I am using.

 

That depends on how good you are with GoogleTranslate ;)

People like you with initiative usually manage even with the instructions tailored to the 2012 version (worst case they open a window in parallel with the 2012 version and find the moved around sections that way).

 

 

(8) Finally, when you have no entries to make on the lines of any given "Anlage", do you add a zero or a dash ... or just leave it blank?

 

You leave it blank.

 

 

I must say that I don't look forward to having to do the EUR in the future if I go over 17,500 EUR VAT

 

I think you mean 17,500€ turnover.

And even then, the first year you go over 17,500€ turnover you still remain a Kleinunternehmer (as long as your turnover is still below 50,000€ that year).

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