Signed for private health insurance by mistake

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Hello Everybody,

 

My hub thought he makes more than 50 thousands euros an year and he made a contract with the private insurance, but now, he saw he can not changed it to the private insurance.

The contract was made now in december and we have aok until the end of january ... what can we do now to cancel the private insurance ? its actually possible to do something ? otherwise we have to pay both ? private and aok ? please any advice its very helpfull...

 

Tks,

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If he doesn't qualify for private health insurance, he is not allowed to take out a contract.

 

Are you saying he never qualified in the first place, or he did in the past, but things have subsequently changed? :unsure:

 

It's usually helpful to discuss this with the people at AOK. They will be able to tell you how to get out of your private contract if it isn't valid to begin with. Otherwise, if it is indeed valid, of course you no longer have to pay for the AOK coverage.

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Hey Tom,

 

The private insurance never asked him any document to see if he applies or not, so he just signed the contract. Now he found out that actually the company where he works for needs to authorize according with the "german law" the change from aok to private insurance. So now he pretty much has 2 contracts. One with aok which is the one he always had and his company is paying for in a regular bases, and the new one, which was signed without any pre approval...now he saw that his company says he can not change however he has a new contract... for me it doesnt make any sense... he suppose to check if he makes enough money right ? He is making more than last year... but actually the rates to change to private insurances in germany changes every year... so as he thought he makes enough he doesnt... he does make enough if they sum his bonus and his vacations...

 

tks a lot

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the company where he works for needs to authorize according with the "german law" the change from aok to private insurance.

 

If his company tells him that he is not allowed to leave the public system and has to stay with AOK, then IMVHO the private contract is null and void, and you will be able to cancel it without penalty. If you're unsure how to do it, talk to either the company's HR people or the admin staff at AOK, they will be able to tell you what you need to do.

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If the approval of the company he is working with is mandatory is the contract valid?

 

But maybe he can change the contract into a "private Zusatzversicherung" and have the money as a credit to his account?

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Hey Panda!!

 

Thank you so much!! Your answer was the best!! A very big help!!! Thanks again!!!

Well about the insurance, if he summed his vacations, bonus, and 13 salary which he receives annually, he would have earned more than 50 thousand euros per year. We just don't know if this "extra money" it's included on the government law, that's why we got very confused now.

 

Apparently, his company (we assume together with the government) "enables" him to switch to a private insurance or not, and the information we had from his company is that if he did not receive any confirmation letter by the end of the year allowing him to move to private insurance, he no longer would be able to move, because according with his company, (the system authorizes that automatically, so they can not do anything)...

 

However, we received an letter from AOK saying they are "sad" he is moving to a private insurance!!!

 

Theoretically, I think he will be fine with the private insurance, I think he will be able to move, even if he did not receive any confirmation from his company. Without the bonus, 13 salary and vacation, he made around 49.100 without bonus, vacation... etc...

 

My real concern is if he is not allowed to move to the private, then we have to pay both.. and the private one is 503 per month, without the 30 % that usually the company pays, and if he is not allowed, the company will not help, so he would have to pay this 503 by himself, and that's my biggest concern. The weird thing is , why the private insurance did not make sure he makes enough money to change him to the private insurance, before he signs the contract... I know it's not the private insurance responsibility, but yeah my hubb responsibility, but he made the mistake to sum everything including the bonus and vacations etc etc... but he never showed any salary statement for the private insurance company, and they never asked for one... :S

 

So he is telling me he is allowed to have a private insurance on the side, I do not agree with him, cause otherwise it would not make any sense the government to make this law... however who also would have to insurances like this ? 300 per month with aok and more 500 euros with private? for a single person ? it does not make any sense!!! -he would have more than a half of his salary going only for insurances!!!

 

So I wanna have some advice, some more information, in what to do just in case the private insurance gives us a hard time. I wanna make sure, I know our rights and what can we do if the worse happens and he is no longer allowed to move it, and the private insurance don't want to cancel the contract.

 

 

Thanks again for your advice,

 

Your information was very precise and awesome!!!

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From what you write the situation may be the other way around than I originally assumed, i.e. your husband may have been within his right to change to private health insurance and should get the doubly paid contribution that back.

 

Why?

 

Because:

gross income (= Bruttogehalt) = gross salary + vacation money + christmas money + 13th salary + "regular" performance bonuses + ...

 

See here for a complete list of what is considered to be part of the gross income (scroll down, it starts with "Employee discounts"): http://tinyurl.com/3ago53q

 

So if your husband earned with the sum of all those amounts above the Versicherungspflichtgrenze, he was fully in his right to cancel the AOK public insurance and to change to a private insurance.

 

See here for a similar case, where the employer mistakenly thought the gross income was lower than the Versucherungspflichgrenze (PHI=PKV=private health insurance; SHI=GKV= public health insurance): http://tinyurl.com/3xtxu7z

 

*************************************

 

The only question remaining in my mind would be if your husband's bonus is considered regular or not.

 

If he paid social security taxes (pension, unemployment, health insurance) also on his bonus payment, then that bonus payment is part of the gross income. So please check that.

 

The problem is that it is the employer who states what the gross income is, and if they made a mistake, you have to convince them of their mistake.

 

If the bonus is not part of the gross income and without it he earned less than the Versicherunsgpflichtgrenze then he should be part of the public health insurance and has to follow the way laid out in my post (cancelling the private insurance)

 

If the bonus was part of the gross income then he is allowed to be part of the private health insurance. This means that his employer made a mistake. In that case he should tell his employer to get back the overpayment to AOK for the time he was doubly insured

and ask his employer to reimburse him for 50% (the employer always pays half, no matter whether it's for public or private health insurance) of the private health insurance contribution for the time he was doubly insured

and ask his employer to in the future pay half of his private health insurance.

 

*************************************

 

I have another question, did your husband actually tell his employer that he had switched to private health insurance?

The employer does not automatically assume that just because somebody earns enough to go private they actually want to do so.

 

Many people who earn more than the Versicherungspflichtgrenze prefer to stay with public health insurance because it works out cheaper for them in total, because in the public health insurance they don't have to pay extra for a non-working wife and all the children, while in private they would have to pay an extra contribution (in your case as the wife more than 500€ per month since females pay more than males for the same benefits) as well for each child.

 

The most important thing is clear up this matter quickly, so get your husband to act immediately.

 

*************************************

 

Edit:

Just re-read your last post, you say:

"Without the bonus, 13 salary and vacation, he made around 49.100 without bonus, vacation... etc... "

This would mean (since vacation money and 13th salary are part of the gross income), that he was almost certainly above the Versicherungspflichtgrenze, even if you do not consider the bonus.

Is that correct?

If yes, then you are in the decision branch where your husband was within his right to change and the employer made a mistake.

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Hey Panda,

 

Thanks again for you post!!! Awesome!!! :)

 

He actually signed the contract before letting his company know that he was changing to a private insurance ( I guess that was where the problem began). He is aware he will pay more, and that I am no longer included on the insurance, but since I am a student, I am getting hopefully a student insurance (with aok) and after that hopefully I will get a job quickly so I can pay my own insurance... and children when I have one.

 

His company now is aware that he is changing to a private insurance, however we got worried because (the company mentioned this problem with the system it might happen...) (the system approves the change from public to private insurance), and in case it does happen as you advised us, we can fight about it (he can ask the company to recalculate his income etc... etc.... (he is checking if he paid taxes on the bonus, 13 salary... and we are almost 100% sure he did. If he did then hopefully everything is gonna work out, and if he did not, then we go with the cancelation process.

 

PS: Actually the contract with the private insurance begins on 01 of january 2011, so we did not pay anything yet... and according with aok, they will end their contract with my husband by 31 of january 2011. I am wondering then if in January both of them will charge us, and my husband will be reimbursed next year, when he make the taxes, or if the private insurance will "hold" january until they have an OK, the confirmation from my husbands company and aok so then can go "further" or charge us!! Actually how does it works ? do they have to send each other letters... i am sorry for the questions but since we are new with insurances, we don't know exactly how the government communicates with the company and the public insurances...

 

Thanks again for your posts!! Awesome!!! and we are trying to find out on the statements if he paid taxes for the bonus or not, but we will let you know as soon as we find out!!!

 

Thank you thank you!!!

 

eliammo

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PS: Actually the contract with the private insurance begins on 01 of january 2011, so we did not pay anything yet... and according with aok, they will end their contract with my husband by 31 of january 2011. I am wondering then if in January both of them will charge us

Yes, they will.

 

The problem probably was that your husband either:

- asked for too early a start for his private health insurance with 1.1.2011, or

- cancelled the public health insurance too late.

 

To be able to have the stop of the public health insurance on 31.12.2010, he would have had to cancel the public insurance in October 2010 at the latest, since the cancellation period is 2 full calendar months.

See here for the legal basis (in the section "voluntary contributors")

 

You can't do anything about the end of the public health insurance, that will be 31.1.2011, but you can ask the private health insurance to - in an act of goodwill (= Kulanz) - move the starting date for the private health insurance one month, to 1.2.2011, so that your husband won't have to pay for double insurance.

 

They can deny this and hold you to the starting date 1.1.2011, but I think they will accommodate him in this since it's not in their long-term interest to anger a good customer.

 

It's probably best to contact the insurance agent with whom your husband signed the contract and ask him/her to arrange the later start. That insurance agent got a commission in the order of several thousands of euros from the insurance company for selling your husband this (very expensive - assuming your husband is about your age) health insurance contract and the least he/she can do is to negotiate with the insurance for you.

 

 

 

I am wondering then if in January both of them will charge us, and my husband will be reimbursed next year, when he make the taxes.

Your husband will not be reimbursed if he pays double contributions for January.

 

The only thing he can do is when doing in 2012 his income tax return for 2011, to include this double payment of health insurance in the form "Anlage Vorsorgeaufwand" (the link is to the form for 2010, the form for 2011 doesn't exist yet):

 

- in line 4, field 300: pension contribution husband paid (from line 23 of his Lohnsteuerbescheinigung = certificate of wage tax deduction which he gets from his employer every year)

 

- in line 4, field 300: employer's part of pension contribution (from line 22 of his Lohnsteuerbescheinigung = certificate of wage tax deduction which he gets from his employer every year)

 

- in line 12, field 320: husband's contribution to the public health insurance in 2011, i.e. the 300€-amount for Pflegeversicherung for January 2011 (from line 25 of his Lohnsteuerbescheinigung)

 

- in line 18, field 426 your (=wife's) public health insurance contributions in 2011 (it's down there and not in line 12, field 420 because you were not employed but a student)

 

- in line 15, field 323: husband's contribution to the nursing insurance (Pflegeversicherung) in 2011, i.e. the amount for Pflegeversicherung for January 2011 (from line 26 of his Lohnsteuerbescheinigung)

 

- in line 18, field 426 your (=wife's) contribution to the nursing insurance (Pflegeversicherung) in 2011

 

- in lines 31/field 350 and line 31/field 351 the values the private health insurance will send your husband for 2011 in a letter for health&Pflegeversicherung , which will be very much less than he actually paid, because you are only allowed to claim in the tax return what a "basic" insurance which is comparable to public insurance cover would have cost

 

- line 44, field 370: husband's unemployment insurance contribution (from line 27 of Lohnsteuerbescheinigung)

 

- lines 46 to 50: any other insurances you pay for, e.g. personal liability insurance in line 48

 

In addition to that you (as a couple) will also have to fill in:

- tax form Mantelbogen: general details like names, addresses, dates of birth, bank account number

- tax form Anlage N: for income from being an employee

See here for instructions on how to fill in these forms.

 

After you submit the tax forms in 2012, you will get a small reimbursement (personal income tax rate * ca. 300€) 3 to 4 months after submission.

 

 

 

... if the private insurance will "hold" january until they have an OK, the confirmation from my husbands company and aok so then can go "further" or charge us!! Actually how does it works ? do they have to send each other letters... i am sorry for the questions but since we are new with insurances, we don't know exactly how the government communicates with the company and the public insurances...

 

There was a whole to and fro process, that has already been finished in your case:

1. your husband asked a private health insurance if they would accept him, they confirmed that they would

2. having received this confirmation, he wrote the public health insurance a cancellation letter (if he had attached that confirmation (= Annahmebestätigung) to his cancellation letter, he could have skipped step 4)

3. your husband signed the private health insurance contract

4. your husband submitted to the public health insurance the insurance certificate (= Versicherungsschein) as proof that he had private health insurance

5. the public health insurance was finally ready to cancel your husband's insurance

 

The idea behind this complicated process is not to leave anyone without health insurance at any time (the old insurance only stops the cover as soon as it is sure a new insurance covers the person), but because it's so complicated, it can lead to overlaps in cover like the one your husband got.

 

The government has no part in this process.

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WOW!

 

I just have to say how thouroughly impressed I am by the effort shown by, and the clarity of, the above posts from PandaMunich.

 

Such helpful TT members are a true asset to the whole internet. Their information is beneficial to all expats and especially valuable to necomers*.

 

Thank you for the time investment.

 

2B

 

*I bookmarked this thread in my "Planlos 101" file for TT newbies.

 

PS: Disclaimer I have no contact to, or knowledge of, PandaMunich.

I included this disclaimer as I realised this post might otherwise read like a paid endorsment.

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Off the top of my head, I thought you had to have earned above the limit in the last four years (not just the current year) in order to move to private insurance. Maybe this is the problem.

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Since this is a thread I find deeply interesting, perhaps PandaMunich can answer a related question:

When taking German insurance for the first time, if one is above the limit but has previously never had German insurance---

(insured with expat insurance while on a time limited contract working for international firm with secondment but now considering transfer to German firm)

--- can one go on Public (because if married with children, private is obscenely more expensive)? When calling insurance companies directly, we have been told absolutely not, yes and maybe. That's with a native German asking these questions.

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gail123: not, yes and maybe!! Normally, and if you´re an employee, you CAN become a " freiwillig " memver of a public insurance Kasse if you´re above the income threshold. However, I had a quick look at your profile and found out you´re American...and this is where it gets complicated. Americans are perceived as being privately insured unlike other nationalities, it´s what Americans have. So, while some will take you in the public system, it has happened that Americans have got into the public system and then been thrown out and forced into the private system - with ensuing backpayments. Keep trying and fingers crossed!

 

8420PR: the three-year-rule has just been abolished as from the end of 2010. As from now, going over the income threshold for the first time is good enough to be allowed to go private as an employee.

 

2B: agree with you. Excelent stuff from Panda.

 

Panda: kudos!

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Panda: excellent info, very comprehensive!

 

If the husband started employment this year already and has not been able to show proof of having had a gross salary above the legal thresholds for the last 3 years, then his employer could only register him with a public health insurance as a compulsory member (Pflichtversichert nach § 5 SGB V).

Fortunately the law about the stupid 3-year-rule was changed in November 2010 and now the rule is this: if your monthly gross salary in, say, Dec. 2010 exceeds the monthly threshold limit AND/OR your expected yearly gross salary for 2011 based on the paramteres PandaMunich has given (thus including 13th monthly salary, vacation salary etc, perhaps not a bonus, certainly not overtime payments) will be in excess of the new threshold for 2011, then you can indeed switch to private health insurance as per January 2011. There might still be a short period of time where the public health insurance AOK will debit the company/employer and thus some deduction from your husbands salary may occur for public health insurance while he is already charged for the new private health insurance - but the money from public health insurance will be returned once they have processed the whole thing - so there won't be any real double payments for January or so in the end.

 

What is important now is that your husband informs his employer that he should be considered as voluntarily insured (Freiwillig versichert gemäß § 9 SGB V) starting January 2011 because the employer has to change the registration/status for your husband at AOK. Once that is done by the employer, the AOK will send a letter, confirming that your husband is now registered as voluntary member and has the right to opt out from public health insurance. Then, within 2 weeks, he has to give notice that he wants to switch per January 1st 2011 and send with the noctice letter a confirmation from the private health insurance that his contract started per January 1st 2011. And then the AOK will terminate his membership ex post and refund any money drawn from the employer for January.

 

Cheerio

I am a professional independent insurance broker, financial adviser, and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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Since this is a thread I find deeply interesting, perhaps PandaMunich can answer a related question:

When taking German insurance for the first time, if one is above the limit but has previously never had German insurance---

(insured with expat insurance while on a time limited contract working for international firm with secondment but now considering transfer to German firm)

--- can one go on Public (because if married with children, private is obscenely more expensive)? When calling insurance companies directly, we have been told absolutely not, yes and maybe. That's with a native German asking these questions.

 

 

Gail: until the new change of the law recently, it was indeed sometimes complicated for US citiziens even as an employee to enter voluntarily into public health insurance. Basically in 2007 when the SGB V was reformed the last time (and when the stupid 3-year-rule was introduced) the legislators dropped one tiny little sub-phrase in the law which was there before and which said that when you take up employment for the first time IN GERMANY you can chose whether you go private or public if you would be considered a voluntary member only in public health insurance. The loss of the "IN GERMANY" part now lead to an unwanted and unexpected result: if your gross salary anywhere else in the world in the preceding three years was over the legal thresholds AND you did not have a public German or EU health insurance for at least 24 months out of the last 5 years or during the last 12 months before starting your employement, you were considered to be NOT eligible for public health insurance as a voluntary member at all. As john_g pointed out, we actually saw cases where individuals or even whole families were kicked out from public health insurances after a couple of months (and the membership cancelled backwards all the way since the start) because of that and then they needed urgently private health insurances.

 

Fortunately, the law was changed again in November and they re-introduced the "IN GERMANY" part into the text. Which means now, if you come totally from outside the EU and enter Germany for the first time and you have a gross salary which would put you into the "voluntary" membership category, you have the right to chose to go/stay with public health insurance from the beginning again regardles of prior income and health insurance situation. You just need to understand that once you decided to go private instead that there is no easy way back into public insurance later if find that this would be now more beneficial to you later in life.

Having said that: it is my professional opinion that in 5-10 years at the latest we will have a universal and compulsory public health insurance for everyone, on top of which you then need to put some private supplementary insurance if you want to have a decent enough treatment and coverage. So, anyone in his 30s or 40s thinking about long-term results of going now private should - IMO - assume that he'll end up in public insurance again anyway in 5-10 years, so he might as well safe some money in the meantime by going private. But of course this is a speculation, though I would call it a very educated guess at least... :D

 

Cheerio

I am a professional independent insurance broker, financial adviser, and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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The problem probably was that your husband either:

- asked for too early a start for his private health insurance with 1.1.2011, or

- cancelled the public health insurance too late.

 

To be able to have the stop of the public health insurance on 31.12.2010, he would have had to cancel the public insurance in October 2010 at the latest, since the cancellation period is 2 full calendar months.

See here for the legal basis (in the section "voluntary contributors")

 

You can't do anything about the end of the public health insurance, that will be 31.1.2011, but you can ask the private health insurance to - in an act of goodwill (= Kulanz) - move the starting date for the private health insurance one month, to 1.2.2011, so that your husband won't have to pay for double insurance.

 

Panda: just one small correction to your otherwise great info: the two-month-notice period for getting out of public health insurance does not apply to anyone whose current monthly gross salary multiplied times 12 would exceed the legal threshold in 2011 - regardless of the question whether his/her total gross salary in 2010 will actually exceed the threshold or not.

So, bascially anyone who had a payrise during 2010 and whose gross salary in 2011 based on the payrise would exceed the threshold or anyone who started an employment somet time during 2010 with a gross monthly salary times 12 will be in excess of the threshold 2011 can already switch to a private health insurance of his choice as per January 1st 2011 and has not to give the 2months notice which normally is correct. The association of private health insurance in Germany has explained this situation well on their website here:

 

http://www.pkv.de/po...egelungen-2010/

 

 

And since I am very cautious in such things (have to be as an independent broker due to my professional liablity) I asked for a confirmation from the Spitzenverband der GKV (association of public health insurances) to this regards and here is a copy out of the email I received, confirming this (though grudginlgy, I guess):

 

 

 

Sehr geehrter Herr STARSHOLLOW,

 

die neuen, durch das GKV-FinG sich ändernden Regelungen zur Versicherungsfreiheit von Arbeitnehmern treten bereits zum 31. Dezember 2010 in Kraft. Damit scheiden diejenigen Personen, deren regelmäßiges Jahresarbeitsentgelt bei vorausschauender Betrachtung (und nicht unter Berücksichtigung der tatsächlich im Kalenderjahr 2010 erzielten Entgelte) die maßgebende Jahresarbeitsentgeltgrenze des Jahres 2010 übersteigt, bereits zum Jahresende 2010 aus der Versicherungspflicht aus, unabhängig davon, ob die sog. dreijährige Wartefrist zu diesem Zeitpunkt erfüllt ist. Das Ergebnis in dem Beispiel des PKV-Verbandes entspricht daher der künftigen Rechtslage bzw. dem gesetzgeberischen Willen.

 

Mit freundlichen Grüßen

 

Peter Kulaß

GKV-Spitzenverband

Abteilung Systemfragen

 

I have already had cases where local public insurances denied switches per January 1st because they either did not know the law properly or tried to brush of people by stating things wrong. In which case a simple copy of the info from the private health insurances above sets things straight right away - or, if anyone needs it, I am happy to pass on my email-answer from the GKV Spitzenverband

 

Cheerio

 

 

PS: shouldn't this thread be moved to FINANCE forum? Bob-the-editor, help...

I am a professional independent insurance broker, financial adviser, and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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@ 2B_orNot2B

Thank you and I can only confirm that - being more partial to Shakespeare's comedies than his tragedies - I have had no contact to, or knowledge of 2B_orNot2B ;-)

 

 

@ john g. and Starshollow

Thank you very much for coming to the rescue, you're definitely the experts here!

 

So, let's see if I have understood everything correctly.

To sum up:

 

Eliammo

Eliammo's husband's employer will retroactively get back the double payment to AOK for January.

If AOK get stubborn and don't want to reimburse for January, Eliammo's husband should send AOK a print-out of this statement from the Association of private health insurers and then AOK will have to pay.

 

gail123

gail123 can only get into public health insurance if she is takes up employment in Germany for the first time and within 3 months of doing so, uses her one-off right to voluntarily join public health insurance.

 

Her public health insurance would cover her, all her children and her husband (if he earns less than 400€).

 

The legal basis for this would be the changed §9 SGB V (=Social Security Code) effective from 1.1.2011.

 

The above link is the only one in which I found this new version of §9 SGB V, and it doesn't look to be written in legalese to me. All the other search results have the old version, which after all is still the valid one until the end of this year, 31.12.2010.

Does anyone have a link to the new "official" version of the SGB, which will be valid from 1.1.2011, with all the proper convoluted legal terms?

 

So, my question to the experts, how is taking up employment for the first time in Germany defined?

 

Gail said she is already working in Germany, not on a German contract but seconded from an international company.

Now my question to you, would Gail qualify for the "taking up employment in Germany for the first time" clause if she takes a new job from a German company this time?

 

As I understand it, the new employer will ask her, since it's standard procedure with all new employees, to provide her present health insurance details and at which public health insurance (e.g. Techniker Krankenkasse) she wants to be insured in the future. This is done to ensure a proper hand-off from old to new insurance, so that nobody is ever uninsured in Germany, even for a day.

 

What should she say then?

Give the number of her Expat insurance, or just say she is new to Germany and wants to make use of her one-off right to join public health insurance, citing §9 SGB V?

 

From what I gathered from Gail's posts, she wants to move with her kids from Berlin to Munich, join her husband who already is in Munich and take up the new job.

Would it be helpful if she officially de-registered in Berlin saying she is moving to the US (i.e. not just move to Munich and register there as with a normal domestic move), spent some time in the US and then came to Munich and registered there, giving as her previous address her US residence?

 

Would having this new Munich registration help with the formalities or is it unnecessary in her case, since because of her secondment situation she hasn't yet officially been employed in Germany?

 

Would de-registering maybe play havoc with her work permit and should be avoided at all costs?

 

What about the dreaded back charges from public health insurance? I remember one of Starshollow's posts on the legality of international health insurances, that one of the few cases where it's legal to have one of those is secondment. Is she therefore in no danger of being back-charged?

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So, let's see if I have understood everything correctly.

To sum up:

 

Eliammo

Eliammo's husband's employer will retroactively get back the double payment to AOK for January.

If AOK get stubborn and don't want to reimburse for January, Eliammo's husband should send AOK a print-out of this statement from the Association of private health insurers and then AOK will have to pay.

 

After having discussed exactly these cases with some fellows at both private and public health insurances, here is how this is gonna play out for Eliammo's husband

 

Step 1: go to emplloyer/HRM now or at the latest early in January and demand to change your registration with AOK from compulsory to voluntarily insured. At that point the employer will have to check if the total gross salary along the parameters you so clearly explained is indeed in excess of the threshold for 2011 or not. Based on what I read from the OP about the gross salary plus 13th salary and vacation payments etc. I, too, think that the OP's husband will be considered to be over the threshold and thus the employer can and has to alter his status accordingly with AOK

Step 2: after having received the change of status info from the employer, AOK will send a confirmation to the OP's husband saying that now you are voluntarily insured and free to leave if you want.

Step 3: wihtin 14 days after receipt of such a letter, the OP's husband needs to send his confirmation of private health insurance starting per January 1st 2011 to the AOK which will then cancel retrospectively his membership per January 1st and reimburse the employer for any premiums/contributions collected from them in January

Step 4: the OP's husband also needs to give the "Arbeitgeberbescheinigung" from his private health insurance to his employer/HRM so that they can recompute his pay-slip

Step 5: with the February salary the op should get the difference between his share of public health insurance and private health insurance for January paid out by his employer

 

 

 

 

gail123

gail123 can only get into public health insurance if she is takes up employment in Germany for the first time and within 3 months of doing so, uses her one-off right to voluntarily join public health insurance.

Yep, sounds correct

 

 

Her public health insurance would cover her, all her children and her husband (if he earns less than 400€).

Entirely correct as well

 

 

The legal basis for this would be the changed §9 SGB V (=Social Security Code) effective from 1.1.2011.

 

The above link is the only one in which I found this new version of §9 SGB V, and it doesn't look to be written in legalese to me. All the other search results have the old version, which after all is still the valid one until the end of this year, 31.12.2010.

Does anyone have a link to the new "official" version of the SGB, which will be valid from 1.1.2011, with all the proper convoluted legal terms?

 

Below I have attached the copy of the new legal text which now specifially mentions "im Inland" again, something that was missing after the GKV_WSG reforms (because it was in the SGB V as well before the changes in 2007. I reckon the new online versions will only be available after January 1st 2011 when the new law becomes effective.

 

post-8763-12936271115314_thumb.jpg

 

 

So, my question to the experts, how is taking up employment for the first time in Germany defined?

 

Gail said she is already working in Germany, not on a German contract but seconded from an international company.

Now my question to you, would Gail qualify for the "taking up employment in Germany for the first time" clause if she takes a new job from a German company this time?

 

Indeed. Secondment means you are not employed "im Inland" but outside of Germany and your gross salary is thus still liable for social welfare contributions (including health care) in the country from where you have been sent to Germany. If, after the secondmend runs out, normally after 2 years or so, she switches to a German contract, she would be considered to be employed for the first time under German law within Germany.Therefore she can then decide - provided the gross salary is over the threshold, of course - right from the beginning whether she wants to go private or public...

 

 

As I understand it, the new employer will ask her, since it's standard procedure with all new employees, to provide her present health insurance details and at which public health insurance (e.g. Techniker Krankenkasse) she wants to be insured in the future. This is done to ensure a proper hand-off from old to new insurance, so that nobody is ever uninsured in Germany, even for a day.

 

What should she say then?

Give the number of her Expat insurance, or just say she is new to Germany and wants to make use of her one-off right to join public health insurance, citing §9 SGB V?

 

I would recommend simply to state that she has the right to chose and what option she does chose, public or private, and thats that.

 

 

From what I gathered from Gail's posts, she wants to move with her kids from Berlin to Munich, join her husband who already is in Munich and take up the new job.

Would it be helpful if she officially de-registered in Berlin saying she is moving to the US (i.e. not just move to Munich and register there as with a normal domestic move), spent some time in the US and then came to Munich and registered there, giving as her previous address her US residence?

 

Would having this new Munich registration help with the formalities or is it unnecessary in her case, since because of her secondment situation she hasn't yet officially been employed in Germany?

 

Correct, since she was seconded she does not face and back-charge issues or other problems and does not need to play any registration games like others who have been in Germany with ExPat insurance but not on secondement.

 

 

 

What about the dreaded back charges from public health insurance? I remember one of Starshollow's posts on the legality of international health insurances, that one of the few cases where it's legal to have one of those is secondment. Is she therefore in no danger of being back-charged?

 

correct, she is not faced with any back-charge issues, though sometimes it has to be explained to private health insurance companies in detail because many don't know what secondement actually is and what it means. I have to send strong worded letters about every quarter to one or more insurance companies who threaten with back-charges because the person in the administration of the isnurance handling the case has never faced secondment before. But once explained properly there is never a problem to this regards.

 

Cheerio

I am a professional independent insurance broker, financial adviser, and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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Hey Folks,

 

First of all, I deeply would like to thank everybody for the effort to clarify this thread. It's awesome to know that you guys gave your best trying to help us out with very important information, and we can not thank you enough. :)

 

So today finally we were able to solve our problem with the private insurance. We received the letter from my hubb's company which said he is authorized to change into the private insurance.

So we went to AOK, and at the beginning they were saying we would not be able to change into the private insurance before this 2 months period, but after we had this precious information from our friend Startshollow, we were able to discuss with them and show them that this is possible. So we did that, and we were able to cancel the AOK insurance, and from January on, my hubb is FULLY insured by the private insurance. YAY the problem is solved.

 

One more time, THANK YOU ALL FOR THE EFFORT WITH THIS THREAD!!!

 

PANDA thank you!! your answers were AWESOME!!

STARSHOLLOW, thanks a lot too, for your complementary information. If it wasn't for you, we would not be able to fight with AOK. :)

 

I Actually don't know if I should start a new thread or if I can use this one as well, so I will ask a question and you guys let me know what it would be better.

I am 29 years old and I am gonna be 30 on june 2011. I am currently studying (Master) and I will take at least more 1,5 years until I finish. I got an information that I can be insured as a student in AOK until I am 30, and that after that I must get a full/regular insurance. Do you know guys any private insurance that offers health insurance for students ? or even if I am studying and I do not have a job, I still will have to pay full/regular insurance ? I know in a long therm it would be better if my Hubb remained in the GKV, as he did not had to pay for me, but he didn't want to.

 

So I thought this 6 months that I am insured as a student would be enough for me to figure out how to manage the insurance after I am 30. So does this information proceed ? Any advices ?

 

Thank you thank you thank you!!!

 

I wish you all the best for 2011!!! :) Happy New Year,

 

Eliammo

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