Money stolen from my bank account

103 posts in this topic

I was checking my monthly kontoaufzug from Berliner sparkasse. I see that more then 2000 euros were taken from my bank account last week. There is a polish/russian name on it an also iban number. I assume that this fraud was done through internet or atm machine by computer/atm pirates.

Has anyone dealt with this kind of case?

 

I have talked to the police and the bank and they will try to investigate this and let me know in one week if they can do something. I adoupt it though that they can help.

 

Any advice would be helpful, I would be very grateful. This is making me super stressed and shocked since all my money was stolen :(

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I am so sorry for you.

 

I really doubt the police would do anything.They are fit only for collecting parking fines and speeding tickets.

I was robbed at the airport once and lost more than 2000 euros and i can truly feel your frustration.The police will just be totally mute and helpless.

 

I hope atleast the bank helps you.

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It sounds like one of those fraud things where they deposit a few cents into your account to see if it's active and then start withdrawing your money. Did you see any other suspicious withdrawals other than the EUR 2000 one? If someone had used your card details at an ATM there wouldn't have been an Iban number but if they're transferring from your account to theirs there would be.

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I was checking my monthly kontoaufzug from Berliner sparkasse. I see that more then 2000 euros were taken from my bank account last week.

 

A friend of mine had a similar amount taken from his Deutsche Bank account a while ago. The fraud was a result of an ATM hack, the theft was traced to somewhere in Bulgaria, he got all his money back.

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Never had this happen from bank account. Husband a few times from credit card, and he alway got money back. Don't despair.

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sosarx: it doesnt say ueberveisung or lastaschrift.

 

What it says is some polish name, IBAN number, then some other 3 polish names and then svwz sepa auftrag V. 2010 euro uber.

 

I dont know exactly what this means.

 

Vestwan: no there is notthing else suspicious.

 

I have a student konto, does anyone know if there is some kind of insurance for frauds like this?

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The type of account does not matter. People cannot just access your money. If the bank allowed transfers without your permissions, it will be returned following an investigation.

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I'm not too sure your bank is allowed to just shrug its shoulders under the law. Can you not reverse transactions if they are suspect?

 

This happened to me twice in the UK, I assume it was thieves going through my bins and stealing bank statements. My card was forged and theives spent over 1000 pounds on my bank debit card in one day. It also happened a second time.

Both times I alerted the police and got a crime reference number and I gave this to my bank and the money was credited back to my accounts and I got new bank cards.

 

This was with the HSBC.

I'm surprised there isnt a similar arrangement in Germany.

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if this was taken as a SEPA direct debit (einzugsermächtigung or lastschrift) then the money can be taken with next to no validation, however you have strong legal protection for getting your money back. In fact you have a no questions asked automatic right to a refund *even if you signed a mandate*. In the UK you would know this as the Direct Debit guarantee and although the SEPA DD system is different it is close enough for those of you who understand BACS DD.

 

For those that are interested, as it has been mentioned by Scrax, all you need to set up a direct debit in the UK is sort code and account number. You also need to be a DD originator which is the hard bit, but there is nothing stopping anyone who knows your details from setting up a DD to a charity of their choice.

 

If it was a direct credit, or an ATM withdrawal then you do not have simple rights to a no questions asked refund, but after investigation the money will probably be returned. This all assumes you didnt do somethng silly like give anyone your ATM PIN.

 

For the record I used to sell SEPA Direct Debit systems and have worked on UK and european payment systems for around a decade (though no longer).

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sosarx: it doesnt say ueberveisung or lastaschrift.

 

What it says is some polish name, IBAN number, then some other 3 polish names and then svwz sepa auftrag V. 2010 euro uber.

SEPA auftrag is an EU wire transfer. Someone (pretending to be you) transferred money from your account to a foreign one. There are two possible ways to do this:

1) Online: Someone would need your online banking login and access to your TAN list/generator (depending on what your bank uses). Do other people have access to your computer and TAN list?

2) Paper transfer order: Someone would need to fill out a transfer form in your name, forge the signature and drop it off at the bank.

 

I would guess that someone went with option number 2, the bank didn't verify the signature and the transfer went through. Should be relatively easy to get the transaction reversed in this case.

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2) Paper transfer order: Someone would need to fill out a transfer form in your name, forge the signature and drop it off at the bank.

 

I would guess that someone went with option number 2, the bank didn't verify the signature and the transfer went through.

 

Signatures are more or less never checked on anything.

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These prostitutes are getting cleverer everyday :ph34r:

 

Seriously though, I really hope this get's resolved asap for you! This is the reason why I check all my bank accounts almost daily, banks need you to tell them in 'reasonable' timeframe to ensure you're not deemed negligent having not checked your bank account activity.

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Actually, they can

 

Banking fraud - German accounts Watch for tiny deposits - may lead to bank fraud

 

and Innovative Bank Scam

 

But if there's no other suspicious activity that's probably not what happened to the OP.

 

But in such a case, the bank must revert the funds as it was not authorized by the account holder.

 

My husband has had to book back auto debits before and it was never an issue.

 

I mean more so, that the money is not just free for the taking, it is a criminal act, so the bank cannot just say not our problem. If they are not verifying transactions and employing proper security measures the fault lies in their hands for letting it occur in the first place.

 

The OP seems to feel anyone can access his account at any time and take money freely and the bank and police allow such.

 

I had the same thing in the US. And in both cases mine and hubby money was reverted back and any resulting fees waived plus that account was blocked from taking any money, the bank then went after that person to recover costs. I had something like a shoes of the month club trying to charge me.

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bal00 in post 12 is correct.

 

So immediately check the two possiblities. Was it taken by a written order from your account- meaning false signature, the bank would be in charge , since they have to check the signature before the transfer.

 

Was it taken off by an internet order, it might get harder, in such a case i would recommend to get some more legal advice, a Verbraucherzentrale might be a help then. You might somehow have to proove that nobody else had acces to your TAN-list as well as to your PIN-code.

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Not surprising, German banks lack the technical sophistication of offering banking alerts.

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There is also the possibility that they have cloned your card when you used a hacked ATM. You have to report it to the police, and then send the police report to the bank. You should get your money back in either case because it's the bank's security that has failed.

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But in such a case, the bank must revert the funds as it was not authorized by the account holder.

 

This is patently false.

The bank has not come to terms with the security, or lack thereof, of online banking, and unlike credit card fraud will try anything to get out of paying the money back.

 

This happened to someone I know recently where a trojan was installed on their computer, and 2000 euros transferred. The issue is still being resolved, but it looks like the bank is denying responsibility due to lack of up-to-date virus software, so won't pay back the money. All they did do was put a request in to the foreign bank to return the money, but this obviously is of little value since it is highly likely that the thieves would have closed the account.

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This happened to someone I know recently where a trojan was installed on their computer, and 2000 euros transferred. The issue is still being resolved, but it looks like the bank is denying responsibility due to lack of up-to-date virus software, so won't pay back the money. All they did do was put a request in to the foreign bank to return the money, but this obviously is of little value since it is highly likely that the thieves would have closed the account.

 

How would the trojan have access to a valid TAN code or do some banks not even require a TAN to process a transfer? I use Postbank and was quite surprised at how little is required to log on to internet banking. Having said that, nothing can be transfered without entering a TAN, so somebody would need to not just hack your computer, but physically access your TAN list. Still though, compared to say RBS online security features German banks seem lax. Many features of RBS online banking require use of a pseudo random number generator thing with a valid ATM card stuck in it (they send it to you). It is very difficult to get around this type of security with trojans or anything else.

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