Ossis and Amis

[dessa_dangerous 13,315]

In light of Serena's recent vent, I became curious to find out where the good readers of Toytown stand on the issue.

 

I've heard Ossi used both in a derogative fashion and as a kind of jesting, good-natured nickname, but in truth, most of the times it's been used in my presence it's been used to describe some sort of perceived backwards behavior. Even my husband, both of whose parents are from Bautzen, uses the word when cursing in traffic.

 

Ami, on the other hand, has never been used negatively in my presence and I find it kind of cute, especially when people ask me about how things are in Ami-Land

 

Personally, as a non-German, I can't get too worked up about what the Westerners call the Easterners or vice versa. I do think it's a bit much to drive five minutes into Potsdam and scream about how the verdammte Ossis never learned how to drive after the wall came down.

 

What do you think?

[john g. 37,776]

It´s the attitude that counts. As a Brit, I´ve been called an "Inselaffe" a few times. I can tell when it´s jesting and I join in. I can also tell when it´s not meant well and I make mental notes on who not to bother talking to another time. It just depends on the vibes going on. I adjust.

[Orla_inka 4,637]

Dessa, you have really answered it yourself.

 

I read the posts in which some say that "Ami" is derogatory. I must say I have never used it or felt it being used in a derogatory fashion. People use it more out of laziness, I think. "Die Amis" slides off the tongue much better than "Die Amerikaner".

 

Now when people introduce me as "Die Irrin" .. that goes a bit too far. I think I should create another thread ....

 

:lol:

[john g. 37,776]

Orla: my girlfriend is German and sometimes I tell her a new client has called and he/she is an "Ire" or "Irin"...because of the "r" problem in my pronunciation, it sometimes comes across as "Irre" or "Irrin"!!! I´m aware of it every time!!

[ganzgeld 940]

I've heard Ami go both ways, but I don't have much experience with Ossi.

 

Whenever I've been called an Ami (twice in a derogatory way) it has been by young German women. I've also noticed that since starting at an international language school that many of the young Europeans, obviously from countries that aren't Germany, have been very surprised that I'm not overweight, a republican or completely ignorant to the world around me. Particularly, GASP, when they hear I'm from Texas.

[mlovett 8,681]

ganzgeld, clearly THEY were the completely ignorant ones.

[Muldoon 260]

Most of the East Germans I know use 'Ossi' to refer to themselves and their fellow Easterners. They are quite proud of the fact they are Ossis and not Wessis, and when they are talking to each other about people from West Germany they use 'Wessi' as a catch-all for explaining behaviour that they consider socially suspect.

[SJ1 2,053]

Well everyone knows my opinion, ha.

 

But here it is sans emotions.

 

I also take into consideration context. I have girlfriend we call one another bitches and hos, it is good spirited and no malace. But obviously if someone randomly said god you ho to me, I would react differently.

 

When it comes to words like ami, off hand I do not favor it, I would not identify myself as such, but if someone light heartedly used it to refer to me, I would not say a word. Now if it was used in the context of you ami schwein or so, you will see little Serena go off.

 

Obviously we react different to various situations and for me having lived in eastern Germany and marrying a man from there it is received by me differently.

 

In actuality, in any situation I felt someone was using a label negatively I would (generally) speak up against it.

 

I just feel like behind every label is a bit of bias, and we cannot just say well I don't mean it that way so you have to take it.

 

Maybe I am nuts, but just my 2 cents.

 

But again context is my big thing. I may not like it but I will not always make a big shit. But if I feel it is used to belittle I will.

 

And my reaction was do to the context of wow are those ossis really so ...

 

Maybe I am all hormonally emo now, but seeing other people hurting hurts me.

 

Muldoon- you bring up a good point. You see the same with words like "n" word in the US. These are obviousle demeaning words, but is often considered socially acceptable to self identify, but to call someone such and you are opening one hell of a can of worms. It is ok in one context and not in another. But even stateside you will see many people speaking out and saying use of such negative words even within the identifying community is also contributing to the circle of bias. When is it ok, who can say, ect.

[ganzgeld 940]

http://jezebel.com/5656401/women-of-east-germany-ahead-of-the-game

 

Interesting and slightly on-topic positive article I just came across about East German women.

[SJ1 2,053]

I should also make note, in my home I do not tolerate any Wessi comments either. If anyone tries to make those types of comments I call them on their crap right on the spot.

 

To me in Germany the wessi/ ossi, is the same as the US whitie- cracker/ nigger. Just a different situation as here the division was geographically versus ethnically, but it does not make it any less biased.

[Erised 2,825]

I don't have a problem with words, I have a problem with the shitty attitude that goes along with it. Slapping a label on someone so you know how to take and treat them is soooo lazy. Anyone with any intelligence whatsoever knows that it is not possible for every person from, say, East Germany to be or act the same. It is a ridiculous notion to assume things in that way just so you can fast track having to deal with someone. Pure laziness. Without it, you might actually have to get to know someone. You might actually find out that they have feelings and don't fit in some Wal-mart manufactured mold. Then you are in for a world of trouble having to actually spend a few to get to know them. You might find out that you are not "better" than them and then where would you be? Hmmmmm

[ShaggyMame 363]

 

To me in Germany the wessi/ ossi, is the same as the US whitie- cracker/ nigger. Just a different situation as here the division was geographically versus ethnically, but it does not make it any less biased.

 

Sorry, but there's no symmetry between 'ossi', and the racial slur 'n***er'. East Germans were never enslaved by West Germans or considered less than human. It is NOT the same.

[Mariposa 1,281]

If anything, I'd also say that Ossi is more derogatory but I use both (as well as Wessi) in more of an endearing fashion. And because it's simply shorter. :)

[SJ1 2,053]

SHaggy-

 

The thing is I am not willing assess value to insults. If you are attacking someone basied on bias, I think they are all equal. Be it race, class, gender, sexual orientation, ect.

 

When we assign levels we belittle the experiences of many.

 

Who was treated worse the jews or the africans? It does not matter no one shoudl be treated in such a way.

 

Is it worse to be called a derogatory word for homosexual or one for being hispanic? I do not think we can say.

 

That is my point. I am not willing to compare the experiences, as I think to label people with a hate, is bad in every circumstance.

 

When we say that racial slurs against african americans are worse then against latinos, we are belittling not only the history but the peoples emotions, you cannot say one is more so then the other.

 

One thing that is really unique about the east west bias here, is that there is no race division, it is purely geographical, I am no sociologist so I cannot say that is not elsewhere to, but the thing is that too is a form of bias.

 

Just as an aside: It has been brought to my attention that my example above was offensive to some, and I apologize if it has upset anyone. I am very much against all hate and bias words. I am in no way attempting to demean any word, but to rather suggest they all hold a very powerful and negative energy. And to me they are equal, but I appreciate the other points of view as well :)

[ashhahnmueller 115]

 

Sorry, but there's no symmetry between 'ossi', and the racial slur 'n***er'. East Germans were never enslaved by West Germans or considered less than human. It is not the same.

 

I have to totally disagree with you. The racial slur "n****r" and "ossi" carry the same derogatory tone. "N****r" is a derogatory and racist word used by ignorant people to describe people of African origin and "Ossi" is a derogatory and racist word used by ignorant people to describe people of the former DDR. Pretty similar to me...

[dessa_dangerous 13,315]

 

Pure laziness.

 

I'm sure I've written about it on Toytown before, but a couple of years ago, when I complained about what I found to be offensive remarks by a co-worker to my boss, he laughed it off, saying, "Oh well, what do you expect, they are Ossies after all". I didn't know who I was more annoyed with after that. He said he would do something about it (and he did) but it was clear his heart wasn't in it--he wanted to keep me calm but he didn't really expect that those darn Ossies would ever really change their silly backwards Ossi ways.

 

Both the "Ossi" and the "Wessi" in question were good people deep down but they were both, as you say, lazy. To say the least.

 

 

it is purely geographical...

 

I'm sure that many who lived on either side of the border would beg to differ. The biggest difference being political. But evidently--not that either you or I were there--there was much, much more to the differences between day to day life and core values in each place than just numbers on a compass.

[k0be 1,107]

You can hear a lot of Wessies use the word Ossies nowadays, even in high-class circles. Most people are actually using it because it's a shorter term. Just like they use Ami or Ösi. No real need to get worked up about it...

 

 

One thing that is really unique about the east west bias here, is that there is no race division, it is purely geographical

 

Bullshit. It's economical. Think Solidaritätszuschlag (for example).

[SJ1 2,053]

 

I'm sure that many who lived on either side of the border would beg to differ. The biggest difference being political. But evidently--not that either you or I were there--there was much, much more to the differences between day to day life and core values in each place than just numbers on a compass.

I know what you mean, perhaps my word choice is wrong.

 

My point is that Germany was divided. Both sides are Germans, there is no ethnic division. They were deported by force, moms and kids, brothers and sisters.

 

I also think it is a bit unfair K0be to say its economical. Does that justify the hate?

 

I know there was lots of pieces to pick up, I hear you there man, but Germany as a whole was broken, ad they should welcome one another with open arms, and not anger and grudge.

 

If we want to blame anyone blame the government and not the people. They were just as much victims.

 

The thing that upsets me, is when people try to say oh it is nothing there is no divide, or those guys this or that... I have seen it todday first hand and that bias is very much alive.

 

And I do not consider it any less of a bias due to the fact it is not as common of a form.

 

And I see the behavior on both sides, I am by no means washing the hands of the east Germans, I know they can be nasty too. It is just enough. It has been 20 years.

[k0be 1,107]

I know you're pregnant and hormonal, but you do not make any sense. Go get some sleep :)

[ShaggyMame 363]

'Ami' is certainly not on the same level as 'Ossi', but 'Ossi' is nowhere close to being as offensive and hateful as the 'N word'. And in fact, I know quite a few Germans born on the former East who find these false equivalencies disingenuous -and even offensive.

 

 

I have to totally disagree with you. The racial slur "n****r" and "ossi" carry the same derogatory tone. "N****r" is a derogatory and racist word used by ignorant people to describe people of African origin and "Ossi" is a derogatory and racist word used by ignorant people to describe people of the former DDR. Pretty similar to me...

 

Have you ever seen ads for 'Ossies for sale' or for an 'Ossi lynching' as a result of whistling at a 'Wessi' woman?

 

Anyway, of course calling somebody an 'Ossi' can be very offensive and wildly inappropriate, and thus ought not to be used. But please explain to me how "Ossi" is a racist slur. Are Germans born on the former East a different race?