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Solar Panels or Solar Energy

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Over the past couple of days I have been trying to decide to use or not use solar panels...

 

Does anyone on here have any knowledge in this area... We live in an apartment on the first floor... I looked into using the portable ones, but i cant find any information if it would be worth to use it for the money their asking... Then i also really dont know how they work...

 

Any advice is appreciated, thanks... :)

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I think solar pannels for producing Electicity are very ineficient and therfore not very cost effective.

but the solar pannels for producing hot water are very eficient!

 

However... who needs lashings of hot water on a scorching hot day.?

 

Granted in winter on a clear sunny day, there is still lots of hot water produced.. but not so much when its cold and damp...

 

I too wish there was an easy answer..

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thanks for the reply... Maybe next year when we move into a house that would be possible... For now i quess we will be stuck with a nice electric bill... :(

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I have a "diy" solar set-up..

 

It produces 15v most days, but only "mili-amps" its not very efficient.

 

I think you can save more money by cutting back on your useage

 

SP

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The Landratsamt in Starnberg holds a solar energy information day at least once a year - maybe your Landratsamt does too - you could at least give them a call and ask!

Having never been to one of these information sessions, I really don`t know a lot about it, but what I do know is that our neighbour produces too much power in summer and sells it back to the electricity company(!)

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Adding to this...

 

Well, solar kit has become much more affordable!

 

I have just built a semi portable power station for a buddy of mine who has his wn gardening/house maintenance company...

 

He needed a 200m extention cable for a particular job... ( dont ask me what it was)

 

He than asked me if there was a way of making a portable power stattion that doesnt run on fossil fuels!

 

So... 40W soöar pannel, 100ah Solar Battery, Regulator and invertor!

 

This afternoon was spent drilling holes in a plastic box and fixing all the kit in there!!

 

2 x Volt meters... One incomming voltage and one for outgoing...

Cigarette lighter socket.. 12V socket to plug an inverter/Coolbox into

2USB sockets 1amp and a 2.1amp for charging handys etc and 

Just waiting on a 12v to 19v DC convertor so he can run a 32" Flat screen TV !!! 

 

Will post a piccie or two when completed and in situ!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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SP, a portable power station is what I have...  A 1990 VW T3 with a solar panel on the roof.  Enough juice to run items at or below 700W.  Aye, a 100cm flat screen is inside, coolbox, radio and lights.  I did install a power-strip for convenience.  The TV is installed within a cabinet, attached to a BMW window unit (fensterheber) to raise it up and down.  Having the additional power is quite nice.  I have three car batteries to store energy.  It will hold for about 48 continual use hours when it is cloudy.

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4 hours ago, SpiderPig said:

So, day 5 of solid sun!!   

15 KW produced... by my home system ( Just 4 pannels)

 

 

Great, one more reason to move to electric cars!

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So, I will add this here...

 

just had a visit/appointment from a solar firm...  

16 x 320w panels.

4 KWP batter Pack ( Same idea as  tesla power wall)...

 

Installatiion,,,,

 

18,000 euro!... 

 

Once battery is full, I get 8cts per KWh paypak from "Suwag" and buy in at 45cts as and if I need to!...

 

Based on last years consumption, it will be 15yrs before its paid off.... If I spend another 3k on a second battery pack, it could be 16yrs ... but I wont be buying in from Suwag at all, I will be fully independant...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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For me 18000€ would be enough to 5 times fly to Hawaii and every time spent 3 weeks there.

Better than sitting in the cellar and worship a battery pack.

 

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Sample from 2020 attached. This is 5.72Kw system (5720w), so just divide by the size of panel you get. Most full sized panels are around 200w or so. For those looking for a portable plug in solution, I borrowed this from a friend of mine last week:

 

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/PowerOak-Portable-Generator-Emergency-Station/dp/B082WW2CRF/ref=sr_1_13?dchild=1&keywords=solar+generator+reiner+sinus&qid=1613682831&sr=8-13

 

and the one I already own:

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/BEAUDENS-Portable-Generator-Phosphate-Emergency/dp/B07TBBZDPK/ref=sr_1_13?dchild=1&keywords=solar+generator+reiner+sinus&qid=1613683182&sr=8-13

 

Basically just plug in the panels and plug the electrical items in the AC outlet. This can not be wired into a house, but works for a caravan and the like. The BEAUDENS one is not a pure sine wave one, so worked with lights, but not the computer, TV etc.

 

 

SolarGen-2020.jpg

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3.5 years ago I looked seriously at some ads from the local power company for solar systems.  turned out though it wasn't the power company, but a vendor, that would be doing the deal.  also, they wanted sale contract signed before they would even send a guy over to look at the site and see if their offer made sense based on actual stuff on site.  the shadiness combined with high cost put me off.  plus the battery they offered cost as much as the PV system and hardly stored anything.  maybe stuff is better now, but 2017 wasn't that long ago.  Also, the Bundesgesetz are crazy from a policy perspective.  The law sets a maximum the power company can pay individuals for electricity.  Not a minimum that must be paid, but a maximum that can be paid.  And the maximum is low. 

 

I tried uploading the 2017 Angebot so you can see it, but was defeated by the maximum MB size Toytown allows -- even a screenshot of the page with the price list seemed too big.  But in summary, they wanted about 6,000 EUR (including USt.) for 10 solar modules (Heckert NeMo 60P 265), a Wechselrichter (SMA SB 2.5-1VL-40), and Montage.  (this was the offer without the battery)  They also had a version where you could rent the system for 20 years at 60 EUR a month. 

 

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I think the solar thing is a complete racket. The prices they charge are through the roof. If the German government were serious about it, they would just let homeowners install PVs without much effort. I was looking at balcony installations which are simple , affordable, and you can just plug into your outlet (you don't even need a fancy wieland adapter and outlet) and it turns out the limit is 600W max that you can install. Why can't that be raised to 1200W or 2400W by self installation? Why do I need to go through a vendor to get a bigger system ($$$$)? 

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Lets say there is a general power outage at the substation... or the substation needs to be switched off due to an accident.... 

 

your 4500 watts would still enter the system... justas would the 6000watts from your bigger and better neighbour... etc etc... 

 

it does need to be controlled...

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29 minutes ago, SpiderPig said:

Lets say there is a general power outage at the substation... or the substation needs to be switched off due to an accident... 

 

your 4500 watts would still enter the system... justas would the 6000watts from your bigger and better neighbour... etc etc... 

 

it does need to be controlled...

The 600 watt balcony system only work with the grid power. When no power, then no solar energy, however strong the sun is. This is achieved by so called grid tied micro inverter. The limit to 600w is by the assumptions that household wiring can handle 600 watt safely. 

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Here is a good summary of balcony solar:

https://www.verbraucherzentrale.nrw/wissen/energie/erneuerbare-energien/steckersolar-solarstrom-vom-balkon-direkt-in-die-steckdose-44715

https://www.dgs-berlin.de/solarprojects/pvplug/?lang=en

https://www.pvplug.de/faq/

 

I was curios as to what limits this to 600w? A typical city aparment would have a balcony like the one below, so there is little room for more than a couple of panel. That will be somewhere between 400 and 600w anyway. However, if you have a roof top apartments, terrace, house etc you might have far more room.

 

A typical german plug socket is spec'd for 16A, which at 230v is 3680w not 600w. If the micro-inverter doesn't work unless there is mains power, then I see no reason not to allow a larger system. I would guess this is to ensure the solar installers have a job.

 

I would be curious to know what happens if you had an existing PV system. Can this be used to expand it?

SampleBalconySolarPanel.jpg

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