Ausbildung in Germany

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Hi everyone=)

 

I've been here for 5months now on an Australian WHV with my German girlfriend and I want to do an Ausbildung here as a Tischler, or Zimmerman or something like this to stay here longer. I have a Bachelor in Architecture, and my education is quite good. My German is progressing (as much as it can at the moment without any money for lessons..), but still no-where near what would be required for a job without an english speaking boss...

 

My research is going quite slowly cos of the language barriers, and I thought asking here might save me some time=)

My main questions are:

Is a specific Visa required to obtain an Ausbildung??

When are is the general start of training (Aug-Sept)? and the end of applications?

Are handwerk Ausbildungs in anyway different?

I'm really interested in the woodworking/carving and the old timber houses - is this what a Tischler/Zimmerman generally does?

 

It would be great to here from someone who has completed or is doing an Ausbildung here, and their stories and tips about the process of getting one.

 

Thanks guys=)

Mitch

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you will have to pay it yourself the arbeitsamt only offers courses to unemployed in the direction of what the y want to give out and not what you are sutable for

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In order to learn more about different Ausbildungen, you could use the resources of the Berufsberatung section of the Arbeitsagentur.

 

The IHK has a Lehrstellen (older term for Ausbildung) database, as well as the local Handwerkskammer.

 

With regard to job titles: Tischler/Schreiner (the first is the term in North Germany, the latter in the South) do the interior wood works in houses (like inbuilt cabinets, kitchens, office furniture), but also doors, window, stairs etc. There are also Tischler/Schreiner that are specialised in furniture (Möbeltischler/-schreiner).

 

A Zimmermann/Zimmerer does wood work on construction sites.

 

IMO those are great professions, however think hard if that is the best career for you, particularly if you already have a bachelor. I've got a master Möbeltischler in the family, and it's physically exhausting work for relatively little pay. It's also a hire and fire business if you work as an employee. Many well-qualified carpenters have to do assembly work that involves a lot of traveling. Perhaps something more technical is a better investment in your future? Or else you could think about Restaurator studies (restoring old stuff, but work is also kind of rare in that field).

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Hi,

you also should be aware that the average German starts his "Ausbildung" at the age of 15-18 - The traditional German "Lehrling" (apprentice) has only completed 9-10 years of basic school (Hauptschule) . Competition for Ausbildung is tough, not sure whether your higher education improves or deteriorates your chances .

 

You get paid a little salary during your Ausbildung, but it's not enough to get a living (I guess it's like 500 Euro for the first year).

 

The Handwerks-Ausbildung consists of about 1/4 school (either once a week, or one week a month), and 3/4 work. Don't expect to learn much during the first year, first year apprentices are lowest in the hierarchy and often get the work no one else wants to do (e.g. changing tires as a mechanic) .

 

The Ausbildung usually start in september, it takes 3 years to get your "Gesellenbrief", you could then continue to get your "Meister" degree, which allows you to open your own company and take apprentices yourself. (It's expensive, but you could get money from the state as far as I know (Meister-Bafög).

 

Companies are looking for apprentices as early as fall (for the following year), though most job adds appear around jan-march. The small companies often take someone who already has completed an internship during school, so that's something you should consider doing as well.

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You sure you want to do this? Besides RainyDays' excellent advice, you - with 'quite good education' - will be together mostly with youngsters that (had to) chose the most basic educational path available in Germany, typically Hauptschule, sometimes Realschule. These people usually start their Lehre at age 16 to 18 and are barely able to communicate in a foreign language, maybe besides some Balkan variants. Their main interests might be more soccer and cars and less so architectural intricacies or Shakespeare literature.

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but still no-where near what would be required for a job without an english speaking boss...

 

Your bosses / teachers on an Ausbildung will not be speaking English either though.

 

An Ausbildung is a really much like a "job", except it's in a low-paid trainee phase. The Azubis I work with (or who did work on my new build house) are workers, just like everyone else at their firm.

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Hi

Thanks for all the quick replies=)

 

I am using the Berufenet to research the different types available, the other one I just found that looks good is the Holzspielzeugmacher.

Trying to set up an appointment now at this BiZ consultancy thing to get some more info.

 

@Rainydays- I realise that these occupations generally don't pay too well, but I'Ve never wanted to be particularly rich.. The main reason I got out of architecture is that it was too technical for me, and I need to do something more with my hands. Restaurator would be excellent but I tried starting a business doing it in Aus- and I know well that there isn't to much demand for it.

I've also worked for a yr as a Modellbauer in aus but again it became something that there wasn't really a demand for.

 

I guess the idea of an Ausbildung appeals to me at the moment because i can get paid for the the training while uni i have to pay for(and not sure how much because I would be an Intl. student) - and as I mentioned before money is a big problem for me. My gf has said the same that it would very hard to find an Ausbildung, that my bosses would probably be asses and I would be with younger kids from the lowest level of schooling. So I dont really know...

That being said, I am only 22, and I guess I just feel like a practical training would compliment my Architecture degree.

 

To be honest I mainly just want something that will allow me to get a longer Visa and stay here for awhile longer without having to marry just yet.. and an ausbildung seems easier than getting sponsored for work. Maybe I underestimate the recognition of my education here because in aus, it's more just a piece of paper, and experience is looked upon more highly.

I'm going to ask an old friend that came over here to study how much it actually costs - but Ive only found one masters course in aus that i would really want to study, and I dont really want to pay for a course that I dont really want to do.

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It seems to me that before you can seriously consider doing an Ausbildung, you need to be at least reasonably proficient at the language and you need to find an Ausbildungsplatz. The chances of the latter will improve with the former and especially if you do an internship or two to establish a relationship with the company of your choice. Is that allowed under your WHV? Be aware, though, that an internship might not be paid.

 

What swimmer says is true, it's like really low-level work, but it's a work contract, essentially, with time off for school classes. You'll need a work permit for that.

 

This page may help: Auswärtiges Amt - studying and working in Germany The "studying and working" section lists a helpline number for general inquiries, which might be useful for you.

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Don't strike off the idea of doing uni in Germany so quickly. As a foreigner you will pay the same exact fees as a German student (Not bad huh?). I pay roughly 550 euros/semester in fees which varies slightly depending on which Bundesland you live in. What makes going to uni so attractive is that you can work 19hrs/wk on the side. I was lucky to have found a well paying part time job that easily covers my living costs. Plus, students get big discounts on transportation, health insurance, and sports& entertainment. That said, it might be a little late to get all your transcripts and documents in order before the application deadline (for winter semester 2010/11). Lastly, thanks to the Bologna Process a large proportion of courses offered, beyond the Bachelor level, must be taught in English.

 

I do have a German friend that just finished her furniture woodworking trainee-ship. During the 2 years, she worked 70-80 hour weeks, was treated like a slave, and was paid shit. Now that she is a certified craftsman, she is still treated like a slave and paid shit. Paid shit= not enough to cover living costs. But I can understand your desire to work with your hands and can't say what would ultimately be in your best interest.

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i'd seriously discount the idea of working in a trade here in germany.

 

i managed to stick it out for 6-7 months before i'd had enough.

 

i'm a carpenter by trade, but coming from the UK i, like many others, never went to college or sat an exam. i learned on the job.

 

i got a start with a local company with a starting wage of 12.50€/hour. ok, so that's about half of what i would expect in the UK (£20+/hour).

 

also, the german idea of 'work' is slighty different to that in Oz (i was in Oz for a year and also got work out there as a chippy). i used to think the Aussies had it sussed with their "work to live, not live to wok" attitude in comparison to the UK, but i now feel the UK has taken the place of Oz and germany the place of the UK. "Zuerst kommt dei Arbeit, danach die vergnüng", first work, then pleasure. and it's true.

 

also, don't expect to go home at 5pm, rather you'll be going home when the job is done or it's too dark to safely continue.

 

i no longer had the time or energy in the evenings to live my life.

 

i was earning 1600€/month, 1200€ after tax. i was earning £800-£900/week in the uk. to me it made no sense to continue. especially when the Gezelle chippies were earing 14€/hour. 1.50€ more than me despite the fact they'd sat through 3-4 years of ausbildung shite.

 

do something more with your brain. the handwerkers aren't valued by society the same as they are in the Uk or Oz.

 

good luck.

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Hey everyone =)

 

Thanks for all the excellent advice. It's a shame that manual labour is looked down upon so much here (as well in other countries) I have decided against the ausbildung for now becaúse of many of the reasons above.

 

For now, I am going to simply enrol into a German language school (found out that I can get a student Visa for a year for this). And do my Masters in Archi after (in eu if i need more time here) or the Masters in fine arts in furniture design course i found in Tassie - will can lead me to the same place as an Ausbildung, but with a lot of other options for work as well..

 

I will keep the option of an Ausbildung open, but only if something really good comes up with a good company or with a good handwerk craftsman. I thought that Germany, and Germans in particular had a greater appreciation for handmade, well-made products - and this may still be true - but the training process leading to this sort of work here is just really bad. Is it any wonder that the world is changing that mass-produced shit products are replacing hand-made, well-made products that will last a lot longer.

 

Thanks again for all the great help,

cheers, Mitch

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Hi, my daughter has found a place for ausbildung as kinder erzieherin. Based on her current qualification, they have waved off one year from the 3 years course. She is a non eu adult. I am perplexed about her health insurance. Will she get health insured from my job or is there a separate one for such cases which i am willing to pay ? Thanks

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As far as I know the place of work of an Azubi takes care of their health insurance and the rest of their social security contributions, which will be deducted from their pay, just like with every other employee. You daughter may choose which Krankenkasse she wants to belong to. 

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41 minutes ago, RajeshG said:

Will she get health insured from my job or is there a separate one for such cases which i am willing to pay ? 

 

She will get health insurance from her job. 

 

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3 hours ago, RajeshG said:

Hi, my daughter has found a place for ausbildung as kinder erzieherin. Based on her current qualification, they have waved off one year from the 3 years course. She is a non eu adult. I am perplexed about her health insurance. Will she get health insured from my job or is there a separate one for such cases which i am willing to pay ?

 

That depends on where she will do her Ausbildung.

 

If she will get paid over 450€ a month, then she will get automatic public health insurance through her employment.

 

If, on the other hand, she doesn't get paid over 450€ a month, e.g. she does this Ausbildung at a school like here in Munich, she has to get her health insurance another way:

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Thank you :)@someonesdaughter and @PandaMunich for the information. You are always so helpful

 

This is a full-time course where she will not get any money, though the school had given us a document stating that it will cost 0€. And she is over 25 years. So now i shall wait for the Aüslander termin and then proceed further as suggested.

 

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38 minutes ago, RajeshG said:

 

This is a full-time course where she will not get any money, though the school had given us a document stating that it will cost 0€. And she is over 25 years. So now i shall wait for the Aüslander termin and then proceed further as suggested.

 

 

How old is she? Can she live with you? What has she already studied? Where has she worked?

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Thanks, @engelchen she is 25, studied psychology, C1 german and internship in a mentally challenged children NGO among others, (but not here in germany) while studying. She can live with me, but for the peace and tranquillity of the family, it might not be possible :D

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2 minutes ago, RajeshG said:

she is 25, studied psychology, C1 german and internship in a mentally challenged children NGO among others, (but not here in germany) while studying. She can live with me, but for the peace and tranquillity of the family, it might not be possible :D

 

It is not necessarily a bad thing if she doesn't live with you. :)

 

Since she is too old for a family reunification permit, it is important that she can clearly explain why she wants to move to Germany for an apprenticeship and will need to convince the authorities that it is not just because you are here. An apprenticeship after a degree will require an explanation. Has she also considered Sonderpädagogik?

 

She'll also need to demonstrate that she has sufficient funds to live here. If you have been employed for more than 3 years in the past 6 years,  she might be eligible for BAföG.

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