ZDF exposes Sandeman's New Europe tours business

209 posts in this topic

 

If I were to take a tour labeled as "free" than that is what I would expect. Many city's do run free tours paid by the relevent people(city/state).

 

Indeed. The Munich example marketing is quite clearly presented as a loss-leader. "This is free - by the way you can also sign up for the 40 Eur day trip to.../evening out in....". Hardly an unusual business tactic.

 

That second point seems to have been overlooked here. A lot of us pay 0 Eur for our city tours provided by the town's authority (ie. we get that free off the residents, we spend money on local business). Last fee I paid was 2 Eur and I was the only person on it!

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Yes, but the hairdresser (or taxi cab driver) doesn't pay *more* if he or she attracts more customers. If they need to earn more money to pay for the chair or the taxi, they have the option of going out and finding more customers. And if they find more customers, they will make more money. If New Berlin tour guides were to do that, they would be out even more money.

Just because Tour Guide #1 has 15 tourists on his tour and Tour Guide #2 has 30 doesn't mean that New Berlin used twice as much of its marketing budget to promote the second tour. And it doesn't mean that Tour Guide #2 will earn more in tips. Perhaps his tour consists of 30 backpackers who have 5 Euros left to their names. Or perhaps the group was so large that a few of them couldn't hear, got distracted and left.

If someone is hired on a freelance basis to help organize a conference, is that freelancer responsible for financing the marketing budget to attract an audience? Because theoretically he or she wouldn't have an audience and thus wouldn't have a job if the conference isn't marketed properly. And what happens if 300 people show up rather than the 200 expected? Should said freelancer have to pay more money after the fact because the marketing was successful? Ludicrous. Your guides are providing a service (without which you wouldn't have anything to market) and for that they should be paid, not debited.

 

And, by the way, I hope that the guides have some oversight over how the company's marketing euros are spent if they are financing it all.

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Yes, but the hairdresser (or taxi cab driver) doesn't pay *more* if he or she attracts more customers.

 

Correct, but they also (as far as I'm aware) don't pay less if they attract less, which is why I brought up the hairdressers.

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This is the fundamental misunderstanding you have, and I can only explain it so many times: This company is apparently not the boss of the tour guides.

Of course not. Chris Sandeman is.And if he does not like your face - or if say, you don't make a tour of the Dachau Memorial funky or jokey enough (B.A's in 3rd Reich History are for turkeys anyway) - or even if you ring up and say "look, I can't work, I have a pretty severe cold, cannot walk straight as I have gone deaf...really, I would do a terrible tour" - bye bye. Nothing illegal about telling a freelancer to get lost. As for what is illegal, we shall see what happens. The Germans are pretty thorough about tracking down wrong doers.I have no doubt that if Mr Sandeman has acted within the law in his practices (no matter how odious they may seem to some) then he has nothing to worry about.

 

BTW, I would like to add that my previous post on I think page 3 of this thread was meant to be ironic. This one is not.

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yes @swimmer, but they don't *do* the marketing. They just finance it. How is it a tour guide's fault if fewer people show up one day? Are they designing, printing, distributing all the flyers? Do they decide what is printed on the posters? Their tours are all the same and thus are marketed equally. Does Tour Guide #1 say, ok, I paid my share this month so I want my flyers to look like this? They are financing something over which they have zero control!

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wow. i was offline just for a few hours and see where we are now...

 

well, to answer berlinprivateguide's question: of course, i still work for insider. how could i not!! as a freelancer cos i have various other jobs i'd like to do. (esp. in the summer months) i enjoy being a freelancer and that's what it is. the company offered me a "regular" contract which i declined due to the fact that i want to be free in my choices of different upcoming jobs. other guides working with insider do have a "normal" contract and are no freelancers. i just don't want that.

 

my personal preference of a job contract got nothing to do with the "marketing costs" argument sandeman uses (i asked you about that earlier) in order to make their guides pay money, though. i'd like to have that answered....

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Oh thefirehead, please keep digging the hole you are in:

 

 

No, please learn to read. I am saying it is not unheard of. Indeed, if you rent office space, and your business does not function, you still have to pay for the rented office space

That is true. But a hairdresser does not have to pay 3 Euros to his landlord for every customer he gets, when the customer gets promised "free" haircuts -- by the landlord!

 

As I keep pointing out, and please learn to read yourself, this is a reverse economic model from the ones you keep pointing out as allegedly parallel to yours. In case you don't understand that, again: "Reverse" means "the opposite." The other way round. Not like you said. Capisce?

 

New Berlin tours will be "free" only if the tour guide gets to keep his/her entire tip, and is not charged a fee by the promoting company that is proportional to the number of people attending the tour. All other "free" tours in Germany, financed as subsidised advertising mostly by town communities, do not do this. Their guides actually get a fixed salary, and get to keep their tip. If it is a "tip", it cannot by labour law in Germany affect the initial agreement. If it is not a tip, it is a payment that is freely agreed on by customer and guide. But a payment remains a payment, and is taxable. Pick your personal pain, please, but stop trying to obfuscate the facts by plucking hairdressers.

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As for someone who has worked for the company in the past and is familiar with the higher-ups style of writing, it is completely obvious that Fnordtown and berlinprivateguide are not just any employees.

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"Had it always been planned that way? I really don't think so. I think Chris would have been happy if the original business model had worked. It really is a shame. Because there was a time when New Berlin was a young company filled with talented, enthusiastic, optimistic people who were passionate about what they were doing. The tours were good, the money was good and the customers were happy."

 

sorry, don't really understand how to quote someone here...

 

but @divinetiger: you are so absolutely right! that is how i got started. i looooved working not for but WITH sandeman. we were such a great team, co-workers, staff members. respectful, motivated, full of hope and full of good ideas. we felt like the first emperors of a new-born continent. chris did indeed his best to support that vibe. until... well... until. you put it right.

i always put it this way: he tasted blood. wanted more. and more. and more. more cash. more power. more respect. and didn't understand that he lost exactly that: respect, hope and motivation. too sad. still, i am happy i went through this. i met some of the best ppl ever. back then - 5 years ago.

 

[adminclose][/adminclose]

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