Logistics of bringing retired mother to Germany

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Was wondering if anyone has any experience with bringing an aging parent over to Germany with you or if you know where I can get this information from?

 

I am married to a German and have been living in Munich now for more than 10 years. I have an unlimited work/residence permit.

We have two children (both German/American)

 

My mother is aging and would like to be nearer to us. She is retired and receives social security.

Is it possible to bring her over to Munich?

 

Most importnat question is, would she be able to get health insurance?

I know she would continue to receive her pension...

 

Thanks for your help.

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Anything is possible.

How old is she then?

Is she still fit enough to learn a new language?

Sure, it would be nice ofr her to be with you and the little ones, but unless she is in a position to learn the language to is going to feel quite isolated here, don´t you think?

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Thanks robinson100, but those are not my concerns. She would be OK. She is an English teacher and socially active, when she is healthy.

The problem is more based on Health Insurance. Who would cover her?

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Don't suppose you could "hire" her as a housekeeper/babysitter? Just a dumb thought that occurred to me. As for health insurance, a lot depends on her age and state of health. Might be expensive, but you're best off asking a professional insurance broker like one of the ones who are here on TT.

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You might want to read up here about the so-called BASIS tariff. That's a bit like "worst case" I think presuming she has the right to reside here etc. It's 570-600 Eur a month (no idea of what that covers or not) but there is some more expert info elsewhere on this site.

 

As above though, best is to "suck it and see" - get quotes based on her real circumstances from brokers. Even it anyone comes here and says yes / no / whatever, her rerality may be completely different.

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just to get something clear, all of you are telling her about brokers and stuff... can't she (her mother) be covered by the public health insurance? like TK or these companies?

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If she's over (IIRC) 55, no, and if she is collecting US Social Security we can assume she is at least 62 unless she is physically disabled.

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Public health insurance doesn't want older people who've never contributed wanting to join when they get old and their healthcare needs are likely to rocket. (Same reason you can't just generally switch from private to public as it suits you: cherry-picking, freeloading or whatever you want to call it).

 

I think that's what this BASIS tariff is about. People outside the public system who'd find it difficult to get private insurance have one option that is always there for them however "risky" they may be. They cannot be totally excluded.

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Setting health insurance aside for the moment, you describe your mother as aging and retired, so would she be capable of learning German? As she continues to age, so will you and your family (believe it or not) and as a consequence, at some time in the future you might be faced with moving her into a home due to physical or mental infirmity. Under such circumstances she'd have a pretty hard time of it not understanding the carers and fellow residents. It was for this reason but in reverse, that brought Mrs AB and me from the UK to Germany to be able to care for my mother-in-law.

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thanks everyone. There are really a lot of things to consider here. My mother is almost 70. Has waves of really bad health and waves where she is up and about teaching English to foreign students in USA. She would need health insurance as good as or better than medicaid in USA. I agree however, that if she does need to go into a home later, Germany might not be right for her. Probably better care, but she would not understand a thing. Could see that being really horrible. But while she is still in decent health, I would like to have her closer to us. She is looking to sell her house and needs to figure out what to do. She is feeling very lonely being so far away from family. Thanks again for all of your help. Will have to do more research.

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Would it be an option for her to take extended vacations in Germany? She could live in the US enough to keep her medicaid and come visit you for a few months a year?

 

I saw my grandmother up-rooted at an old age. She had lived in the same town forever, was in relatively good health at age 80 and had a couple of old friends there although no family any more. My uncle arranged for a house with an extra apartment for her to move in with him but it was a disaster. She felt out of place living at their house for one thing, she never grew roots in the new community, had problems making friends, ended up getting severely depressed to the point of needing to be hospitalized and from there she ended up in a nursing home where she died a couple of years later. IMO, it would have been better for her to stay at home in her town where she knew her surroundings, was active in the community etc. Her loneliness could have been solved by more frequent visits, her visits to us and our visits to her, more phone calls maybe etc. Of course hindsight is 20/20 but you have to consider the same things with your mother. If she comes to Germany, she will be completely alone except for you.

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Jodessa, you say that your Mom is in a house which she is thinking of selling. Have you looked into Assisted Living in the US? There are several different types, ranging from apartment buildings where seniors have their own complete apartments which they can rent or own, to actual retirement villages with various styles of homes from bachelor apartments to detached bungalows specially kitted out for seniors.

 

I toured several Assisted Living centers with my Mother in Toronto just this past November. The advantage is that there are all sorts of support structures (clinic, doctors, nurses, social workers, housekeeping, laundry, common meals) on site to give seniors that bit of extra help they may need, without limiting their independence. A senior who is fairly healthy and active can still do everything the same as in a regular house or apartment, yet will have the extra opportunity to meet people and join all sorts of social activities and clubs. Meanwhile, you will know that if any problem comes up then there is already a support structure in place and help is never far away no matter where you might be.

 

Unlike nursing homes which are for seniors who are completely unable to manage on their own, Assisted Living Centers encourage independence and can provide a very good home for older people who need just a bit of help.

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Again, thank you everyone.

 

LeonG - you have a really valid point there. I think you are right. Thank you very much for helping me put this into perspective.

 

Bipa - Interestingly enough, my mother was very involved in a couple of assisted living projects. The biggest problem is that it is too expensive for her. There are sadly not many options in Pittsburgh, PA. But thanks for the idea. We would have loved something along those lines.

 

We will be discussing all options. I'm sure we will figure something out.

thanks

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Anyone know where I should call to find out the facts on this? Which office would be responsible for bringing foreign family in the country? Thanks

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I tried this when my mother was in her 60's. The reason we couldn't do it was because of health insurance. We would have had to insure her privately, which we could not afford.

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Thanks again for you r help. @westvan, I called the the Amt and they basically said it is tough but maybe possible ..case by case...so I will go in with all info and discuss with an agent. @arunadasi, yes...health insurance will for sure be the biggest hurdle. What were they asking for your mother? Just curious...you could PM too if you are ok with sharing. Besides the health insurance, would they have allowed her to come??

 

thanks again

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The Basistarif costs about 600€/month and she'd need to apply for a permit under §36 Abs. 2 AufenthG. I'd recommend reading this thread from info4alien.

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Hi jodessa,

it was so long ago (1986!) that I can't remember what they were asking, just that we couldn't afford it.

However, I do have more info.

 

I moved to the UK and about two years ago my mother, now in her 90's, said she wanted to joing me there. SO I made all kinds of enquiries and found it would be possible to bring her over if I can prove that I can support her, and also pay about £2000 to "import" her.

 

I was planning on going ahead with this. The health insurance matter didn't come into play because of the NHS in the UK.

 

Then I spoke to an agency that arranges visas and they told me something remarkable: as I am a EU citizen and not British, I can get her in for free, because of EU laws allowing relatives to join us here. If she travels with me, she doesn't even need a visa! It was amazing to find out that if I were British, I would have to pay, but as a German, I didn't!

 

I did some googling and found out that is is true: we EU citizens CAN have our elderly relatives join us; however, it is up to the individual countries to impose health insurance requirements if they want to. That's why it would be so difficult to bring an old person to Germany, but not the UK.

 

(In tne meantime, the plan has changed: she will stay in Guyana and my son will live with her, but that's beside the point.)

 

So, here's the website that gives you all this information about moving relatives to the EU:

 

http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/04/15/requirements-for-a-short-stay-visa-family-of-eu-citizen/

 

 

and their non-EU family members

Requirements for a visa (for family members of EU citizen)

 

For a visa to be issued on the basis of Directive 2004/38/EC, only the following requirements need to be satisfied:

 

The visa applicant is a direct “family member” of an EU citizen and has proof (marriage or birth certificate or some combination) of the relationship)

The visa applicant will be travelling with, or joining, the EU citizen for a visit or permanent move to an EU member state. (If they are going to the “home” country of the EU citizen, then there can be a requirement that the EU citizen had previously lived/worked in a different member state)

All travellers require a passport (or a national ID card for the EU citizen)

 

These are the legal requirements for all of the EU/EEA member states, including all Schengen members, the UK, Ireland, Romania and Bulgaria. They also apply for Switzerland.

http://eumovement.wordpress.com/page/2/

 

 

European free movement law is structured to ensure that the EU citizen has a clear path to move to another EU country. (Many of the ECJ court decisions enabling free movement rights for family members are justified, in large part, because restricting the rights of family to accompany the EU citizen will discourage the EU citizen from exercising their free movement right).

 

The non-EU family have a right to be with their on-the-move EU family members, and have the same rights to work or study or access the resources of the host member state.

 

When free movement is the topic, the law centres around the EU citizen.

 

Family members can get a free visa, to be issued “as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated process”, as long as they will be travelling with or joining the EU citizen.

Family members can enter without a required visa as long as they are travelling with the EU citizen and are carrying proof of the relationship.

Family members are entitled to a Residence Card when the EU citizen is exercising treaty rights.

After a period in another host member state, family members can move back with their EU citizen family member to the EU citizen’s home country.

 

Never is the non-EU family member evaluated on or given preference because:

 

they are smart

they have been successful

they are working

they are rich or are paid lots

they are beautiful

they play chess well

of their age / sex / race / nationality

 

These things may or may not be important within a specific family, but they play no role in any free movement decision under EU law.

 

The SINGLE thing that qualifies non-EU family members to have free movement rights is that they are the family member of an EU citizen whom they will be travelling with.

 

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