Moving from private to public health insurance

128 posts in this topic

 

... a house husband have to pay for my healthcare premiums as I have investment income over 340 a month.

 

The limit is actually 385€ a month.

 

 

... less the 280€ the company. Private Chris 500€ a month me 300€ (ALC international insurance) again less the 280€

 

Oh, did they in the meantime manage to get ALC accepted for employees, in the sense that employers contribute to its cost?

 

Why do I ask?

Because on 30. March 2013, when the Focus article about ALC was published, that was still not possible, i.e. you could have ALC, but your employer wouldn't contribute to it (see the very end of the Focus article):

 

post-24869-13714149974538.png

 

 

So this has been discussed briefly but what happens if for some reason you can't afford the premiums. As mentioned all companies have to offer a basis tariff but is this based on income (with half paid for by the krankenkasse).

 

I think you misunderstood something there.

Krankenkassen are the public health insurers, why would they contribute to your private health insurance?

 

Anyway, the Basistarif is a fixed amount, in 2013 it is 610.31€ a month, no matter how little you earn, so it is not income-based.

 

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Please also consider that only if you remain in public health insurance will your wife pay a contribution based on the income that she will have then, with the state chipping in half instead of the employer.

Only then would she be made a member of the Krankenversciherung der Rentner once she would draw her German public pension, for details please see post 18 in Private Pension from German Lebensversicherung.

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Hey Pandamunich sorry don't think I made myself clear, I was considering private healthcare as I expect that I will have to pay the freelance tariff as I have some extra income. I don't know yet if it's over the limit but assuming it is I was looking at private healthcare as an alternative, but my concern was affording it when we retire (which is looming fast!!!)

 

So to rephrase the question, what percentage do you pay of your income when your retired for healthcare?

 

My understanding is that with private healthcare the premium continues whethher you can afford it or not. For example I calculated our retirement income as about 2000€ a month, so paying 800+ for private healthcare would be a killer.

 

Hope this helps

 

PS thanks for the other link just reading it now

 

Edit: just checked and should be under the limit for this year so gives me a bit of breathing time to get this sorted out

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My understanding is that with private healthcare the premium continues whethher you can afford it or not. For example I calculated our retirement income as about 2000€ a month, so paying 800+ for private healthcare would be a killer.

 

Yes, that's the problem with private health insurance, it doesn't care how much you earn, you pay according to the risk you pose to the insurer.

 

Which brings us to the differences in the price according to your age.

Let's have a look at ALC:

 

  • A 30 year old male (or female without pregnancy cover) will pay for a tariff with a deductible of 3,000€ a contribution of 695€ a year
  • 40 year old: 922€ a year
  • 50 year old: 1,550€ a year
  • 60 year old: 2,677€ a year
  • 70 year old: 4,963€ a year
  • 74 year old: 6,053€ a year

 

ALC doesn't quote for people over 74 (error message: "One of the Applicants is over 74 years old, which we cannot quote for.") , so no idea how they calculate things beyond that age, or whether they simply refuse to continue once you're that age.

 

  • Edit, after a contribution from john g.: "You can remain with ALC if you joined them before you were 75, they cannot throw you out. It´s a renewable but life long contract if wished."



So to rephrase the question, what percentage do you pay of your income when your retired for healthcare?

Roughly, there are the following cases:

Case 1 (source 1 and source Techniker):
you are in public health insurance when you reach pension age, and you fulfill the 9/10 rule (>9/10, i.e. more than 90% of the second half of your working life in public health insurance, be it as a contributor or just under family cover through a spouse) and draw a German public pension: you are a mandatory member of the "Krankenversicherung der Rentner".
Spouses who earn below the limit are again included for free under the Familienversicherung.
  • 8.2% health insurance + 2.3% (2.05% if you had a child) Pflegeversicherung on your German pension
  • 15.5% health insurance + 2.3% (2.05% if you had a child) Pflegeversicherung on your Betriebsrente, or "Zusatzversorgung für Arbeiter und Angestellte des öffentlichen Dienstes"
  • 8.2% health insurance on your foreign pension
  • no extra contributions on other income like capital income, rental income, ...

 

Case 2 (source 1, and source Techniker):

you are in public health insurance when you reach pension age, but you don't fulfill the 9/10 rule, you do or do not draw a German public pension.

Or you fulfill the 9/10 rule, but you don't draw a German public pension.

You become a voluntary member of the "Krankenversicherung der Rentner", which means that you pay:

 



  • 15.5% health insurance + 2.3% (2.05% if you had a child) Pflegeversicherung on your German pension
  • 15.5% health insurance + 2.3% (2.05% if you had a child) Pflegeversicherung on your Betriebsrente, or "Zusatzversorgung für Arbeiter und Angestellte des öffentlichen Dienstes"
  • 8.2% health insurance on your foreign pension
  • 14.9% on all other income, e.g. capital income, rental income, ...

If you draw a German public pension, then they will give you a subsidy of 7.3% of the amount of your German pension towards the health insurance.

 

Case 3:

you are in private German health insurance when you reach pension age

You continue paying your private health insurance, however much that will be.

If you draw a German public pension, then they will give you a subsidy of 7.3% of the amount of your German pension towards the private health insurance.

 

Case 4:

you are in private international health insurance (e.g. ALC) when you reach pension age

You continue paying your private health insurance, however much that will be.

At the moment, as far as I know, they are not yet willing to pay out the 7.3% subsidy on your German pension towards international private health insurance.

But the Focus article linked to above does say they are some court cases pending on that.

 

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However, time has shown that the German public health insurance has no compunction at all widening the base on which they charge, so just because that's the way things are now doesn't mean that things will be like that in 15 years, when you reach pension age.

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OMG Pandamunich you are a god, I bow down before thee :ph34r:

 

I do agree that in 15 years things will change but you have to go with what you have.

 

I'm just calculating some numbers right now so will get back to you shortly!

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Re-activating Thread,

 

I had a lunch time discussion with my HR department regarding changing health insurance from private to public and had a point of conflict. I once visited TKK and asked the berater about getting back into TKK from private, he suggested that if salary falls under Versicherungspflichtgrenze (4463 Euros monthly brutto) atleast for one month then it is possible to get into TKK, but my HR says that it should be for one year.

 

Can anyone share their views on this topic.

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The one-month thing is a fairly new development. Your HR guy is going on obsolete information.

 

Starshollow has mentioned this in a couple of different threads.

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Hello Experts

 

I am reactivating the thread.

I am 35 years old and my wife is housewife currently with private expat insurance AXA PPP for last 4 years and I came to know after completing 5 years in Germany I will no longer be treated as an expat hence need to change the insurance type. 

My health insurance advisor(appointed by my company) informed me that in order to have the same services like alternative medical cover, sick pay, optics, dental cover, specialist doctor without hausarzt referral, single cabin, chefarzt etc my insurance premium can be doubled. However I can reduce by giving up few facilities like single cabi, chefarzt etc.

Currently I am paying as shown below 

 

Me - 336
Wife - 311
Daughter - 173
Long term care - 61
------------------------------Total 881
Out of which my employer pays me 351 + 30 = 381, Hence I pay 500 from my pocket for my family health insurance.
Currently I earn around gross 5500/month which excludes the employer contribution towards heath insurance.
 
Hence I do have only 2 options either to continue with private insurance with lesser coverage or move to Public by reducing my monthly earning at the limit 5062.5/month only for a month. If I move to Public I will be paying around 426.
 
Hence could you please suggest what should be done in my situation.
P.S. We use the medical facility quite a lot like I have regular medicines, our daughter born with full coverage, medical checkup atleast twice a year to name a few.
Thanks for providing your expert comments. 
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1 hour ago, anipri said:

Hello Experts

 

I am reactivating the thread.

I am 35 years old and my wife is housewife currently with private expat insurance AXA PPP for last 4 years and I came to know after completing 5 years in Germany I will no longer be treated as an expat hence need to change the insurance type. 

My health insurance advisor(appointed by my company) informed me that in order to have the same services like alternative medical cover, sick pay, optics, dental cover, specialist doctor without hausarzt referral, single cabin, chefarzt etc my insurance premium can be doubled. However I can reduce by giving up few facilities like single cabi, chefarzt etc.

Currently I am paying as shown below 

 

Me - 336
Wife - 311
Daughter - 173
Long term care - 61
------------------------------Total 881
Out of which my employer pays me 351 + 30 = 381, Hence I pay 500 from my pocket for my family health insurance.
Currently I earn around gross 5500/month which excludes the employer contribution towards heath insurance.
 
Hence I do have only 2 options either to continue with private insurance with lesser coverage or move to Public by reducing my monthly earning at the limit 5062.5/month only for a month. If I move to Public I will be paying around 426.
 
Hence could you please suggest what should be done in my situation.
P.S. We use the medical facility quite a lot like I have regular medicines, our daughter born with full coverage, medical checkup atleast twice a year to name a few.
Thanks for providing your expert comments. 

Hello Anipri!  You surely don’t have a private expat insurance if you have a German employee contract?

I am a professional independent insurance broker and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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40 minutes ago, anipri said:

I just checked and the policy is named as FlexMed Global

19 hours ago, anipri said:

Hello Experts

 

I am reactivating the thread.

I am 35 years old and my wife is housewife currently with private expat insurance AXA PPP for last 4 years and I came to know after completing 5 years in Germany I will no longer be treated as an expat hence need to change the insurance type. 

My health insurance advisor(appointed by my company) informed me that in order to have the same services like alternative medical cover, sick pay, optics, dental cover, specialist doctor without hausarzt referral, single cabin, chefarzt etc my insurance premium can be doubled. However I can reduce by giving up few facilities like single cabi, chefarzt etc.

Currently I am paying as shown below 

 

Me - 336
Wife - 311
Daughter - 173
Long term care - 61
------------------------------Total 881
Out of which my employer pays me 351 + 30 = 381, Hence I pay 500 from my pocket for my family health insurance.
Currently I earn around gross 5500/month which excludes the employer contribution towards heath insurance.
 
Hence I do have only 2 options either to continue with private insurance with lesser coverage or move to Public by reducing my monthly earning at the limit 5062.5/month only for a month. If I move to Public I will be paying around 426.
 
Hence could you please suggest what should be done in my situation.
P.S. We use the medical facility quite a lot like I have regular medicines, our daughter born with full coverage, medical checkup atleast twice a year to name a few.
Thanks for providing your expert comments. 

Ah, I guess you have the international insurance because you were sent over to Germany from your home country as a posted worker.

 

Do you have a German labour contract?

I am a professional independent insurance broker and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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Have you had a German labour contract all the time or just starting one? If you have had one all the time, I am amazed you have been able to use an international insurance. If it is brand new, it could be considered your first job in Germany and with it the chance to insure yourself and the whole family on a public insurance contract.

I am a professional independent insurance broker and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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8 minutes ago, john g. said:

Have you had a German labour contract all the time or just starting one? If you have had one all the time, I am amazed you have been able to use an international insurance. If it is brand new, it could be considered your first job in Germany and with it the chance to insure yourself and the whole family on a public insurance contract.

I am a professional independent insurance broker and authorised advertiser. Contact me.

Hi John 

 

So lets clarify the situation.

I was in Germany for the first time in 2013 and during then I had a private health insurance, I left Germany in 2014 to Non EU.

For the second time I got a permanent position back in the end of 2015 and since then I am in the same job. Because of the fact first time I enrolled for a private insurance I had no option for public in the second time, hence I started as private again. As per the insurance  plan the maximum duration for this particular insurance is 5 years and after that I need to move to other insurance/plan.

I still have some time to complete 5 years but I want to start the process now.

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pulling teeth:  he didn't ask about your insurance, he asked about your employment contract as that is what determines whether you are an "expat" or not.  So you have been a German resident and German employee, not on an expat assignment, since late 2015, right?

 

If so, it does not sound like you have had a policy that actually meets legal muster.  You can't normally be covered by an expat policy if you are not, in fact, an expat.  Something sounds very wrong here. 

 

 

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Thanks for the explanation.

What I understand, even though I am a permanent resident in Germany (holding Niederlassungsarlaubnis) with a permanent German contract, from the insurance point of view I can have this particular expat plan for maximum 5 years and after that I have to change it.

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are you sure you don't have FlexMed Global Impat?

 

that would be legit as it complies with German compulsory insurance requirements.  Their basic FlexMed global does not. 

 

Whether they will allow you to keep the policy for up to 5 years isn't particularly germane.  what is important is that your new insurance provider accepts your prior cover when you switch.  If your current cover does not meet German compulsory requirements you likely have a problem. 

 

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2 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

are you sure you don't have FlexMed Global Impat?

 

that would be legit as it complies with German compulsory insurance requirements.  Their basic FlexMed global does not. 

 

Whether they will allow you to keep the policy for up to 5 years isn't particularly germane.  what is important is that your new insurance provider accepts your prior cover when you switch.  If your cover does not meet German compulsory requirements you likely have a problem. 

 

Mine is FlexMed global Impat.

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