Moving from private to public health insurance

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Adrian: another point..what do you mean by paying 200 euros a month for nothing? I presume you mean you are healthy! Don´t complain about that! Insurance is there for when things happen! Stay healthy but stop moaning!

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adrian: not sure if paying 400-500 EUR into public health insurance (half of which you get deducted from your pay) is a better deal for you as compared to private with HM...

But I can understand that some folks find the pubic insurance attractive at first.

 

Now as an employee you should think about tax optimized pension planning, there you really spend money just for yourseld and your future :D

 

Cheerio

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johng. (# 33):

 

I'm philosopically in favour GKV, too (I'm self-employed and GKV insured, too, by the way.)

 

Beamte get privileges with their health insurance because it helps keep them "loyal" to the state they serve and probably helps "keep them in the private system". Just my guess. (Why do you think they don't have to pay their own retirement insurance?)

 

Soldiers have the same privileges because permanent serving members are also Beamte. See above comment.

 

Like you I would also prefer a generally public system with private top-ups.

 

I also see us paying more as "Selbstbeteiligung" (what our American friends call "co-pays"). Either way we're all going to be paying more in addition to our monthly premiums. No other way, really.

 

Recently I got rung up by someone wanting me to switch to the private system. For the hell of it I went along with the bullshit and gave a few personal details for them to work with. I also have a few minor complaints which would normally hike any private premium (as from 1.1.11 I will be paying a shade over €330.00 with nursing care insurance in my public fund.) Anyway, the person got back to me and said that, with nursing care insurance, I would pay €400 in any private scheme. However, I do not know whether that included the 10% age surcharge or not. But even if it didn't, there's a hell of a difference between €330 and €400 every month.

 

My five cents.

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Well, onemark: nice post. Lots of comments here:

 

First of all, no one has the right to cold call - this is very common with salespeople for private health insurance and usually by people who have no idea about it anyway.

 

The quote would have included the " Risikozuschlag " of 10% ( ie 10% of the premium being invested for future price stability in old age ) - that´s a legal requirement of all private health insurances since 2000 and probably not a bad idea.

 

The big problem here when you mention 330 v. 400 euros is WHAT was in the tariff. What did it include or leave out? How was the private hospital cover? What about alternative medical practices ( for those so inclined ) ? Was sick pay in there? Dental replacement? Deductible etc??? How about the doctors´ fee structure? ( ie can you go to a specialist without being referred )? Too many variables there, I´m afraid , to make a fair comparison.

 

Agree with your angle on Beamte!! Bloody ridiculous. Some of the best spies have been Beamte! Some Beamte I´ve seen are so unhealthy looking, they should be uninsurable! :ph34r:

 

Na, basically, although I work with insurance and live from it, I´m living in the system which is how it is. I´m not a German citizen and cannot change any laws. I do believe ( for pragmatic and for social reasons ) a public system with private top-ups is the best consensus - people can take their choice, just like if they want an Audi or another car, or go to Oldenburg or Sylt on holiday!

But I also understand if others have a totally different opinion. This is a different system to the one I grew up in and there huge challenges managing demographic changes/realities in this and other societies.

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Well, in the UK, we have the NHS (everybody is entitled to 'free' health care) and although you pay through taxes for the healthcare, no matter what happens to you, you are covered. There is no need to deal with insurance companies or any of that horsecrap. You get sick, you do to the GP or hospital, you get treated, you go home. Simple.

 

If I were earning say 30,000 Euros per year in the UK, my tax rate would be about 25-30% of my salary and that would include my 'health insurance premium'. I have no real idea how much I will be taxed in total here in Germany of I earn that much, but I am guessing it will be higher from what I have heard.

 

I just wish all countries had this NHS type of system. It makes things a lot easier and contrary to many beliefs, there are not huge waiting times and people dying on the streets etc. I was there at Xmas, had a MRI scan, heart tests and saw a stroke specialist all in one week. No queues or dying on the street for me.

 

And yes John, I am fit and healthy now - my MRI and heart tests proved this :D

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adrian: good for you, mate! Just wondering why a guy of your age saw a stroke specialist? And having heart tests?

Look, adrian, I grew up with the NHS ( am proud of my forefather´s generation for doing that ). Come from a working class background..at some stage in the 80s ( September 20th 1988 ! ), ambulance arrived and took me and then wife to hospital - no bills,no charges, no hassle ) and baby was born ( had a few fags in the corridor! ). My daughter was born without my worrying about anything except..will she be healthy etc ). Great!

Germany has a different system - good levels, good science, different history. Different history! Complicated, even we insurance brokers ( if we´re honest ) have difficulties with it..it´s bloody insanely complicated.

I agree; make some kind of unitary sytem so everyone is humanely covered for the important things. Luxury? Ok, top-up insurance. Why not?

Whatever the system, maybe pragmatic, maybe idealistic...nobody should die on the streets -it´s unworthy and unnecessary.

adrian: if you´re staying here long-term, think of the German system . Think about income care for the worst case scenario ( accident, serious illness ) and definitely check out the second most important insurance in Germany ( private Haftpflicht/private liability insurance ) - if you mess up once and cause damage to someone´s health or property, you´re liable life-long under German law. Don´t think " typical insurance salesman shit " - it´s true.

Take care!

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I would pay €400 in any private scheme. However, I do not know whether that included the 10% age surcharge or not. But even if it didn't, there's a hell of a difference between €330 and €400 every month.

 

Onemark: I am pretty sure that you are basing this on a (common) mistake: most likely the premium the private insurance guy offered to you is the total GROSS premium. Which means, you pay the full amount each month but you'll get half of that on top of your gross salary paid out tax free from your employer every month as his contribution/share of your costs.

the 300 EUR for your public insurance are of course also only your share, the other half being paid by your employer. I would be rather surprised if someone wold have actually offered you a tariff in private health insurance for a single person with 800 EUR per month gross premiums, hence I think that the mistake lies in there... could you check for us and let us know?

Because then you would get, in your example, better coverage for 100 EUR less net payment from your side each month and that would lokk a bit differently, right?

 

Cheerio

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Ooops, just noticed that you are self-employed... ok, then the comparison is indeed not working for you because your public costs are in total less than the private quote. Sorry for me not reading this in full before writing, must be a bit of sleep depreveation on my side kicking...

 

Cheerio

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"You have to join a hauartzt"

 

No, generally this isn't true, although some statutory (public) health insurances have a "Hausartztmodell", which means that you have to see your GP to be referred to a specialist. I don't know whether this is voluntary. Otherwise, you just go to any old specialist you want. The only problem with this is that you have to pay your €10 each time to each new doctor unless you get a referral. But you can always get a referral from one specialist doctor to another. I always do it this way as I don't go to the doctor much.

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[adminmerge][/adminmerge]

Hi everyone,

 

I know these health insurance questions are plentiful on this forum but I was still unable to find a clear answer to my situation. Any help is appreciated.

 

My situation is as follows. I am currently unemployed in Germany and I am insured in the public health insurance TK through my wife who is employed here. Very soon I plan to start working as as Freiberufler (I am an engineer). I am a non EU citizen that was insured in a NonEU country before we came here. My questions are:

 

1. I read on this forum that if I wasn't insured for at least a year in an EU country I can not become a voluntary member of public health insurance. However as I mentioned I am currently insured in TK through my wife. Once I go freiberufler would it be possible to continue in TK (public) or no way?

2. If I would have to go private then fine. My question is what happens in the future if I get regularly employed and have a salary which is above that threshold (where employees choose public or private). Would I be able to go to public?

3. We are planning to have kids soon. I assume they can be insured on my wife's name, i.e. in the public insurance (even if I earn more than her as a freiberufler).

 

Any help is greatly appreciated

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This thread seems to fit your situation perfectly, sheen1. It will hopefully provide all the information you need.

 

My (admittedly non-expert) advice is for you to stay in the TK, especially if you plan to have kids. If you go private and earn more than your wife, you'll have to pay extra for your kids no matter whose policy they are on.

 

If and when you get a full-time job with a salary that is over the threshold, you can then choose whether you want to stay in the TK voluntarily or switch to private. If the kids are already there at that point, you'll still probably be better off in the public system.

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Is this any help:

 

http://www.biallo.de/finanzen/Versicherungen/gesetzliche-krankenkasse-seit-2012-koennen-privatversicherte-leichter-wechseln.php

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[adminmerge][/adminmerge]

Hi everyone,

 

I know these health insurance questions are plentiful on this forum but I was still unable to find a clear answer to my situation. Any help is appreciated.

 

My situation is as follows. I am currently unemployed in Germany and I am insured in the public health insurance TK through my wife who is employed here. Very soon I plan to start working as as Freiberufler (I am an engineer). I am a non EU citizen that was insured in a NonEU country before we came here. My questions are:

 

1. I read on this forum that if I wasn't insured for at least a year in an EU country I can not become a voluntary member of public health insurance. However as I mentioned I am currently insured in TK through my wife. Once I go freiberufler would it be possible to continue in TK (public) or no way?

2. If I would have to go private then fine. My question is what happens in the future if I get regularly employed and have a salary which is above that threshold (where employees choose public or private). Would I be able to go to public?

3. We are planning to have kids soon. I assume they can be insured on my wife's name, i.e. in the public insurance (even if I earn more than her as a freiberufler).

 

Any help is greatly appreciated

 

El Jeffo´s given good answers. Just another point: if you´re non-EU it might be difficult to get private insurance anyway...it would depend on your visa status, potential income, Schufa and, of course, whether you have any major health problems. It depends partly, also, on which non-EU you are!!! ( Bit cryptic, I know, but reality at the moment )!!

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[adminmerge][/adminmerge]

Hi everyone,

 

I know these health insurance questions are plentiful on this forum but I was still unable to find a clear answer to my situation. Any help is appreciated.

 

My situation is as follows. I am currently unemployed in Germany and I am insured in the public health insurance TK through my wife who is employed here. Very soon I plan to start working as as Freiberufler (I am an engineer). I am a non EU citizen that was insured in a NonEU country before we came here. My questions are:

 

1. I read on this forum that if I wasn't insured for at least a year in an EU country I can not become a voluntary member of public health insurance. However as I mentioned I am currently insured in TK through my wife. Once I go freiberufler would it be possible to continue in TK (public) or no way?

2. If I would have to go private then fine. My question is what happens in the future if I get regularly employed and have a salary which is above that threshold (where employees choose public or private). Would I be able to go to public?

3. We are planning to have kids soon. I assume they can be insured on my wife's name, i.e. in the public insurance (even if I earn more than her as a freiberufler).

 

Any help is greatly appreciated

 

if you have been co-insured thru your wife for >1 year, you can switch to your own public insurance without problems. if the timeframe was less it could be a problem.

 

should you go with private - John G has mentioned some of the problems you might fact, but if your wife would act as insurance applicant/holder with you as insured person only, that should work - you can get back to public insurance if and when you start your first employment even if your gross salary is over the threshold

 

Cheerio

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That´s a good point, Starshollow..

 

Just wondering what nationality the spouse is and how long her visa is if non-EU. Could be a stumbling block..maybe.

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Hi all,

This is an amazing forum!

I have a burning question regarding the public/private insurance for high income expats in Germany.

To clarify a bit more, my situation is as complex as following:

 

- I'm Chinese who just signed a permanent German work contract with a big German company

- The income is well above the 4000E per month

- The contract starts on Oct 1st (next Monday indeed!)

- I will be in Germany Oct 1-17 for paperwork, then immediately sent on delegation to France for 8-10 months.

- I will then work alone in Germany (family remains in France), say from around September 2013 onwards, for 6-8 months or so.

- Even after that, most probably sent on delegation again to another country out of EU (this time with the family).

- I have no LT plan to live and retire in Germany.

- I'll most probably return to France where I live with my husband and kid now and retire there, also where we have French health coverage.

 

After the context, to begin with, I am obliged to take a German insurance coverage, at least at the beginning, as I will start in Germany and stay there for 3 weeks. There is the public SBK available for which I will pay 360+ € monthly. I also worked with an independent broker who found me Nürnberger that would charge me just 150€ monthly.

 

Between the two, I know all the benefit of the private (less premium, better service, etc.) and I really don't need the public to insure my family members as they are perfectly insured in France.

But there are still some factors that could impact my decision. Here are my major considerations:

 

"Anwartschaft" during my delegation in France

Because I will have to take a new insurer that offers international coverage during my delegation, the ideal would be pause the German insurance during that period.

 

1) Can or cannot?

I was told SBK could allow me to switch to Anwartschaft at all moments. One notice from my German employer is sufficient. And I also learned this is necessary for me to be admitted again to SBK after my return to Germany. How about Nürnberger? Would it even accept me if I tell them I am likely to shut them down for a year 3 weeks into the insured period (after Oct 18th)?

 

2) How much?

In case the private insurer is all good about Anwartschaft, how much would the monthly rate differ between SBK and Private? For SBK, the monthly rate is around 50€ in my case. Anyone knows how much of a difference I shall expect at Nürnberger?

 

Requirement of Medical check and processing time for my application

I have heard that it's usually very long to get admitted to a private plan, and oftentimes a medical check is required, as supposed to the public plan. It's true that SBK registration is super easy and timeless.

Do the experts here know the estimated time duration for registration with a private insurer? And would I be obliged to submit recent medical report prior to admission, in the case of application to Nürnberger?

 

Considering my starting date of Oct 1st, and that I will need to sort out the insurance not too later than that date, I'm wondering whether I still have enough time to get all these done in time for Nürnberger...

 

Last question, but the most tricky one:

Once I am sent to France on delegation, it seems I will need to take a private insurance that offers international coverage (which normally makes sense). But in my case, I will still have my French insurance plan running, as I also have a freelancer activity in France hence publicly insured and my husband's complementary "Mutuelle" covers me as well.

 

My question is: is there any way to avoid double paying insurances in France.

If I present my French insurance terms (mostly likely all in French) to my German company, do you think they would accept the fact that I am correctly insured thus not requiring/forcing me to take an extra German insurance with international coverage?

Anyone happens to have the same situation as mine?

 

Sorry for all these questions that are more than personal than universally benificial to the other viewers of this forum. But some urgent help would really be appreciated given the short time I have to make a decision now.

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I have a burning question regarding the public/private insurance for high income expats in Germany.

The "a" must be the understatement of the year!!! :P

 

 

After the context, to begin with, I am obliged to take a German insurance coverage, at least at the beginning, as I will start in Germany and stay there for 3 weeks. There is the public SBK available for which I will pay 360+ € monthly. I also worked with an independent broker who found me Nürnberger that would charge me just 150€ monthly.

While me and others are certainly more than happy to answer your question here: if you really picked an independent broker, he/she should not only be able to answer all of the below but is actually required to do so. Without having seen the comparsion/selection made for you by the broker (did you check, is he/she REALLY independent? if you are not sure what to look for, check this info on our own website to get a better understanding of this: http://www.crcie.com/mediapool/64/649626/data/INfo_-_Financial_advice_in_Germany_-_rules_and_laws.pdf) but personally I find the Nürnberger often lacking in coverage/price relatio and would most likely not have recommended it to you...but there may well be reasons I do not know for the advisor to recommend this one for you. What other insurances were offered to you? Just curious...

 

 

Between the two, I know all the benefit of the private (less premium, better service, etc.) and I really don't need the public to insure my family members as they are perfectly insured in France.

well, this comparison is not THAT easy normally...but since you rule out the need to consider long-term stay/coverage in Germany and co-insurance of dependent, you are indeed one of the typical cases where private health insurance makes the most sense.

 

 

"Anwartschaft" during my delegation in France

Because I will have to take a new insurer that offers international coverage during my delegation, the ideal would be pause the German insurance during that period.

 

1) Can or cannot?

I was told SBK could allow me to switch to Anwartschaft at all moments. One notice from my German employer is sufficient. And I also learned this is necessary for me to be admitted again to SBK after my return to Germany. How about Nürnberger? Would it even accept me if I tell them I am likely to shut them down for a year 3 weeks into the insured period (after Oct 18th)?

Now, here is a problem: if you tell either the Nürnberger or the advisor that you are going for an Anwartschaft right after starting it, nobody will want your business. German private health insurances look for long-term contract relationships, if only to recover the intial costs for setting up your contract and paying out commission. Since the advisor will basically have to repay his/her entire commission when you go for an Anwartschaft right away (I guess as I have not had such a case yet, but this is most likely to happen) he/she will have done a lot of work for you with no earnings coming out in the short term, thus it would cool off any interest in you most likely pretty fast.

I do not know how soon after setting up a private health insurance you can actually go for an Anwartschaft...it might not even be possible after all.

 

 

2) How much?

In case the private insurer is all good about Anwartschaft, how much would the monthly rate differ between SBK and Private? For SBK, the monthly rate is around 50€ in my case. Anyone knows how much of a difference I shall expect at Nürnberger?

In private health insurances there is a "kleine Anwartschaft" and a "Große Anwartschaft" with different things that are locked in and thus different costs. But only the insurance company itself can tell you that as there are some major differences for this between insurance companies

 

 

Requirement of Medical check and processing time for my application

I have heard that it's usually very long to get admitted to a private plan, and oftentimes a medical check is required, as supposed to the public plan. It's true that SBK registration is super easy and timeless.

Do the experts here know the estimated time duration for registration with a private insurer? And would I be obliged to submit recent medical report prior to admission, in the case of application to Nürnberger?

SBK will accept you in with NO medical check-ups or anything, you just have to hand in the relevant application form

If you have been insured for some years now until October in France - if I understand you correctly - there are some private German health insurance companies which will not require a medical check-up at all, they will accept your French pre-insurance at face value. An independent broker should now which they are.

If you chose an insurance WITH the requirement for medical check-ups (or if such a check-up can't be avoided because you have not had health insurance in an EU-memberstate during the past couple of years) then it depends entirely on you how fast this is going to play out. You'll have to take a form, provided by the health insurance company, to a GERMAN doctor/GP and in some cases also to a GERMAN dentist and get the check-up done. If the doctor/dentist give you a clean bill of health, then within a few days you can get the approval and confirmation from the German health insurance company. If there are any medical issues, however, that require further checking, more testing and what not, it can take several weeks easily before you get thru with this.

 

 

Considering my starting date of Oct 1st, and that I will need to sort out the insurance not too later than that date, I'm wondering whether I still have enough time to get all these done in time for Nürnberger...

Personally I don't think so and would in your case simply take the public insurance and spare yourself the hustle ( you have to pay for the medical check-ups in Germany yourself, btw)

 

 

 

 

Once I am sent to France on delegation, it seems I will need to take a private insurance that offers international coverage (which normally makes sense)

Most, if not all, German private health insurance plans offer full coverage throughout the entire EU nowadays with no time-limits. Therefore I don't understand the need for yet another insurance here.

 

 

. But in my case, I will still have my French insurance plan running, as I also have a freelancer activity in France hence publicly insured and my husband's complementary "Mutuelle" covers me as well.

 

My question is: is there any way to avoid double paying insurances in France.

I fear nobody can here can tell you how to entangle your French health insurance...but I could be wrong.

 

 

If I present my French insurance terms (mostly likely all in French) to my German company, do you think they would accept the fact that I am correctly insured thus not requiring/forcing me to take an extra German insurance with international coverage?

For your (short) stay in Germany they certainly can't accept the French insurance as employer. For your delegation it would be probably up to them - but unless they have someone who can read and understand the Ts&Cs of a foreign insurance in French language, which I seriously doubt, they would not like to be at risk if that French insurance turns out to be inadequate in one way or another and thus would rather err on the side of caution and say "NO"..at least that is what I would do in their shoes.

 

Cheerio

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The "a" must be the understatement of the year!!!

Lol, I should have put the plural form

 

 

While me and others are certainly more than happy to answer your question here: if you really picked an independent broker, he/she should not only be able to answer all of the below but is actually required to do so. Without having seen the comparsion/selection made for you by the broker (did you check, is he/she REALLY independent? if you are not sure what to look for, check this info on our own website to get a better understanding of this: http://www.crcie.com/mediapool/64/649626/data/INfo_-_Financial_advice_in_Germany_-_rules_and_laws.pdf) but personally I find the Nürnberger often lacking in coverage/price relatio and would most likely not have recommended it to you...but there may well be reasons I do not know for the advisor to recommend this one for you. What other insurances were offered to you? Just curious...

Well, I had a phone conversation with her again this afternoon, and she confirmed she is REALLY independent. She only gives advices and opinions, but her clients are to make their own decisions.

My guideline to her was to find me the cheapest coverage (as I'm young and healthy) on the market. So she came up with Nürnberger 158€.

The others are Universa 187€, AXA 228€, Hallesche 194€, DKV 294€ and a better Nürnberger 246€ (all numbers are employee portion)

 

 

Now, here is a problem: if you tell either the Nürnberger or the advisor that you are going for an Anwartschaft right after starting it, nobody will want your business. German private health insurances look for long-term contract relationships, if only to recover the intial costs for setting up your contract and paying out commission. Since the advisor will basically have to repay his/her entire commission when you go for an Anwartschaft right away (I guess as I have not had such a case yet, but this is most likely to happen) he/she will have done a lot of work for you with no earnings coming out in the short term, thus it would cool off any interest in you most likely pretty fast.

I do not know how soon after setting up a private health insurance you can actually go for an Anwartschaft...it might not even be possible after all.

 

In private health insurances there is a "kleine Anwartschaft" and a "Große Anwartschaft" with different things that are locked in and thus different costs. But only the insurance company itself can tell you that as there are some major differences for this between insurance companies

You are perfectly right. In our conversation this afternoon, she confirmed this point.

Actually, minimum of one year is required to be able to switch to Anwartschaft for most of the private insurances. The rate for Anwartschaft is about 30% of your monthly contribution, meaning 45€ in case of a budget private plan.

So she suggested me to

(1) go with the public SBK in the first place (during initial weeks)

(2) During my delegation in France, either cancel or Anwartschaft the SBK plan; Take the DKV insurance package my company usually recommends for expats sent aboard (the employee portion is around 200€)

(3) After one year, when I come to Germany again for the 6-8 months, she would work with me again to advise me a best private plan to take in Germany.

 

 

Most, if not all, German private health insurance plans offer full coverage throughout the entire EU nowadays with no time-limits. Therefore I don't understand the need for yet another insurance here.

As previously mentioned, my company has a negotiated a special package with DKV to provide to its expats - my guess is that it's mostly for guys already registered with public plans. They also said DKV is not compulsory if expats have a preferred private plan that covers the region where they are sent.

 

 

For your (short) stay in Germany they certainly can't accept the French insurance as employer. For your delegation it would be probably up to them - but unless they have someone who can read and understand the Ts&Cs of a foreign insurance in French language, which I seriously doubt, they would not like to be at risk if that French insurance turns out to be inadequate in one way or another and thus would rather err on the side of caution and say "NO"..at least that is what I would do in their shoes.

Very good point.

The person at the delegation department today told me that if I want to take a French insurance plan instead of the DKV, I need to obtain the agreement of several departments and in case it's agreed, then the company can also pay half of the monthly contribution.

But my question was not to take yet another French plan, but whether I can use my current one which is a French public one. I will have to further explore this issue with "several departments" in the company and I am afraid this is going nowhere as I start to notice how procedural and inflexible the German corporates are!

 

Anyway, thanks VERY MUCH Cheerio for your crystal clear answers to ALL my "burning question"S.

I think I see it quite clear now, thanks to this magic forum =)

 

Thanks.

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Me thinks this is the best spot to put my thoughts. It's been answered indirectly already but has to do with aging, I suspect it doesn't come up to often as this forums tilts toward the younger.

 

Bit of back ground first, came to Germany at age 40 (celebrated my 40th top the Eiffel Tower) lived here 7 years insured under AOK then moved to Spain for 7 years on the public system with a private top up (as an aside Public Servants in Spain have to choose either Public - NHS syle system or Private - can't have both) then have returned to Germany wife aged 50 me age 53 with plans on retiring here - well Winters in Spain but residents here :rolleyes: . So the Wife is a high income earner and as a house husband have to pay for my healthcare premiums as I have investment income over 340 a month. Sooooo accepted wisdom is at our age to go public private as private is too expense except after a ton of emails and research (thanks Johng) decided that private is a real option. Basic numbers are public insurance 1052€ a year month less the 280€ the company. Private Chris 500€ a month me 300€ (ALC international insurance) again less the 280€ so talking a savings of 200€ plus a month, plus if I'm privately insured I can work freelance (without the huge hit of having to pay on top of what the wife pays) Plus I believe that public will much more expensive than private in 20 years. Link from Johng gives the low down.

 

So this has been discussed briefly but what happens if for some reason you can't afford the premiums. As mentioned all companies have to offer a basis tariff but is this based on income (with half paid for by the krankenkasse). If costs continue to rise at the rate they have 5.5% a year 800€ becomes 1700€ in 20 years ouch.

 

Is this also the same with international HC (where money isn't set aside for old age) and costs I believe rise faster, but from a lower base.

 

As mentioned while public is an option I don't believe it will be any cheaper down the road

 

Thanks Rob

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