The laws about employees and Kurzarbeit

190 posts in this topic

And if he is Lucky.. JohnG will come along and tell us all about some trip up a Peruvian friends trouser leg whilst hiding from Village witch doctor or sommat...

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On 4/10/2020, 12:14:21, AlexTr said:

You must be so embarrassed. 

 

4 minutes ago, AlexTr said:

. You must be embarrassed.

 

Try a bit of variety, AlexTr. 

 

:D

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3 minutes ago, AlexTr said:

 

What is true today? And answer my question. You know you're wrong and that's why you aren't answering. Shameful. You must be embarrassed.

 

I answered your question please answer mine.

 

I will repeat it,

 

When was unemployment insurance introduced?

 

When was kurzarbeit introduced?

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7 minutes ago, RenegadeFurther said:

 

When was unemployment insurance introduced?

 

When was kurzarbeit introduced?

Ren! I posted earlier about the Infection Protection Act. Your questions are not really relevant. This is a situation we have never known.

By the way, I have no idea if the world’s top level economic/financial and political reactions are appropriate. Does anybody- if we are honest?

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1 minute ago, john g. said:

Ren! I posted earlier about the Infection Protection Act. Your questions are not really relevant. This is a situation we have never known.

By the way, I have no idea if the world’s top level economic/financial and political reactions are appropriate. Does anybody- if we are honest?

 

I am looking for dates then we can continue this farce further.

 

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@RenegadeFurther You never answered my question and you keep moving goalposts so I'm going to let you keep looking ignorant all by yourself. You do not need anyone's help.

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Just now, AlexTr said:

@RenegadeFurther You never answered my question and you keep moving goalposts so I'm going to let you keep looking ignorant all by yourself. You do not need anyone's help.

 

Please tell me the dates.

 

Will repeat,

 

When was unemployment insurance introduced?

 

When was kurzarbeit introduced?

 

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Tell us what you are trying to prove..

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4 minutes ago, SpiderPig said:

Tell us what you are trying to prove..

 

Shhhhh, you will spoil the punch line.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, RenegadeFurther said:

 

When was unemployment insurance introduced?

 

When was kurzarbeit introduced?

Maybe Bismarck in Germany?

When corona became a pain in the arse.

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Bump. Can anyone tell me what the distinction is between Kurzarbeit and Arbeitszeitverkürzung?

 

 

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54 minutes ago, Dembo said:

Bump. Can anyone tell me what the distinction is between Kurzarbeit and Arbeitszeitverkürzung?

 

 

 

Kurzarbeit is a program to help businesses and employees when they don't have any work.  A company may keep their employees and have them work part time or not at all and during that time, they will be paid unemployment benefits to the ratio of how much they work, for example, 50% work = 50% wages + 50% unemployment benefits.

 

Arbeitszeitverkürzung is what the unions are fighting for in the way of shorter work week, for example from 40 hrs. a week to 35.  From 35 to 30.  From a 5 day work week to a 4 day etc.

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Thanks. So Kurzarbeit is a government scheme that presumably comes with conditions - that's sort of what I guessed. I assume when you say the unions want a reduction in working time you mean for the same money.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Dembo said:

Thanks. So Kurzarbeit is a government scheme that presumably comes with conditions - that's sort of what I guessed. I assume when you say the unions want a reduction in working time you mean for the same money.

 

Well, yes, that's generally the idea :)

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Hello, I read today that the conditions working part time Kurzarbeit have been eased up, that meaning that the Kurzarbeitgeld will not be affected by the part time work.

Can anybody provide more details, for example in case of 100% Kurzarbeit how much part time can you take, is it possible to take an 8 hour job?

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I need some advice. My company has been on Kurzarbeit since June with plans to remain there until December. I unexpectedly received a really good job offer so I handed in my three-month notice with plans to leave the end of September. I just found out today from my company that since I've handed in my notice I am no longer covered by Kurzarbeitgeld so my salary will now be reduced to 50% of my full salary for the three months of my notice. I simply CANNOT live on half my salary for three months.

 

Thanks to the first page of this topic I found the following:

Erlöschen des Anspruchs auf Kurzarbeitergeld durch Kündigung

Spricht der Arbeitgeber die Kündigung gegen einen seiner Beschäftigten aus, erlischt gleichzeitig der Anspruch auf Kurzarbeitergeld (§ 172 Abs. 1 Nr. 2 SGB III) für diesen Mitarbeiter, da die persönlichen Voraussetzungen für Kurzarbeit (vorübergehender Arbeitsausfall) nicht mehr erfüllt sind. Gleiches gilt bei einer Kündigung durch den Arbeitnehmer. Damit muss das Unternehmen ab dem Zeitpunkt der Kündigung wieder selbst für die Entgeltansprüche bis zum Ausscheiden des Mitarbeiters aus dem Betrieb (also dem Ablauf der Kündigungsfrist) aufkommen. Dabei muss unabhängig von der Kurzarbeit der volle Lohn (wie vor dem Arbeitsausfall) gezahlt werden.

 

I've forwarded this to my company and they are looking into it. They were not aware that they were responsible for my full salary during a resignation situation. It's an unusual situation for them as well as myself. My question is if they do agree to pay my full salary as it appears they should am I still restricted to the reduced hours or would I have to go back to full-time hours? If they don't agree to pay me my full salary I am of course going to try and negotiate to leave early and start my new job sooner as it's just not possible for me to survive for three months on half-pay. 

 

Do I have any other options? 

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They were only partially correct, it is true you can't be on Kurzarbeit during the notice period (Kündigungsfrist) but you are entitled to work full time and receive full salary.

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Thanks, @Krieg. I'm waiting to hear back from my company about what will happen. I guess they have to look into the situation themselves and get clarification, I don't think the company has been on Kurzarbeit before. I was devastated when I got the message yesterday that I'd be on 50% of my full salary for three months. Thankfully it's TT to the rescue once again. 

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According to  https://www.arqis.com/kuendigung-waehrend-kurzarbeit-wie-hoch-ist-der-lohnanspruch-waehrend-der-kuendigungsfrist/  you cannot profit from having resigned so you can not continue to work less hours while expecting your full salary.  It does say that you may continue to work the reduced hours and can expect to get the half salary + kug, same as you have been getting even though your employer will no longer get the kug for you from arbeitsamt.  

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