The laws about employees and Kurzarbeit

171 posts in this topic

That's what I meant. You pay no tax and have no social security deductions on the Sunday and stat holiday work. 

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11 hours ago, RenegadeFurther said:

 

 

We are creating "zombie companies", companies which were not viable in 2008 were allowed to exist and companies in 2020 which are not viable are allowed to exist.

 

Kurzarbeit just lets the circus continue.

 

The reason for kurzarbeit is to avoid layoffs. this serves two purposes. The first one obviously it to keep people working but the second is when things get better companies don't need to try and hire new employees. Or more specifically take advantage of the opportunity to replace high cost employees with younger cheaper ones. Because of the extremeness of this virus pretty much every country including the US and Canada are doing some form of this. I have a friend who works in the Airline industry and she's (or should I use the new grammar and say they's) on 10% work, 1 hour a day and 60% of her former salary. I have to say I'm a tad jealous. 

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1 hour ago, Rushrush said:

 

The reason for kurzarbeit is to avoid layoffs. this serves two purposes. The first one obviously it to keep people working but the second is when things get better companies don't need to try and hire new employees. Or more specifically take advantage of the opportunity to replace high cost employees with younger cheaper ones. Because of the extremeness of this virus pretty much every country including the US and Canada are doing some form of this. I have a friend who works in the Airline industry and she's (or should I use the new grammar and say they's) on 10% work, 1 hour a day and 60% of her former salary. I have to say I'm a tad jealous. 

Effectively a company can be as reckless as it likes because it knows that the Government will step in and bail itself out. 

 

If companies can't get through a few months of a down turn do these companies really have the right to exist.

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Since all of these employees pay taxes and statutory insurances, including unemployment insurance,  and all of these companies match that, and given the fact that it is literally called unemployment insurance,  please @RenegadeFurther, can you explain how cashing in on an insurance policy you've paid for is getting bailed out when KA funds come out of that same fund?

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Lest you think I am sphincter-speaking

 

Quote

Kurzarbeitergeld ist eine Leistung aus der Arbeitslosenversicherung. Unter folgenden Voraussetzungen haben Sie darauf Anspruch: Ihr Arbeitgeber muss die regelmäßige Arbeitszeit kürzen und hat dies der zuständigen Agentur für Arbeit angezeigt. In den meisten Fällen geschieht dies aus konjunkturellen Gründen, das heißt, weil die wirtschaftliche Lage Ihres Betriebes schlecht ist.

 

 

Deepl.com translation 

 

Quote

Short-time working allowance is a benefit from unemployment insurance. You are entitled to it under the following conditions: Your employer must reduce regular working hours and has notified the relevant employment agency. In most cases, this is done for economic reasons, i.e. because the economic situation of your company is poor.

 

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24 minutes ago, RenegadeFurther said:

 

If companies can't get through a few months of a down turn do these companies really have the right to exist.

Oh most of the companies would survive it`s most of the employees that won`t.

But rather those employees lose their jobs and go on to unemployment benefits because doubtless that works out cheaper for the average joe taxpayer in the long run eh 

30 minutes ago, RenegadeFurther said:

Effectively a company can be as reckless as it likes because it knows that the Government will step in and bail itself out. 

Stop talking absolute bollocks.

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5 minutes ago, Keleth said:

Oh most of the companies would survive it`s most of the employees that won`t.

But rather those employees lose their jobs and go on to unemployment benefits because doubtless that works out cheaper for the average joe taxpayer in the long run eh 

Stop talking absolute bollocks.

Look up the term "zombie companies". Aren't you the poster thinking that the UK is still living under the Thatcher era and we should all be prepared for the miners to strike?

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5 minutes ago, RenegadeFurther said:

Look up the term "zombie companies". Aren't you the poster thinking that the UK is still living under the Thatcher era and we should all be prepared for the miners to strike?

You forgot to answer what to do with the employees of these companies ?

 

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2 hours ago, Keleth said:

You forgot to answer what to do with the employees of these companies ?

 

What happens in a normal situation when companies get rid of employees? It is really not the states job to pay every employee a salary.

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Why are you bothered about where the money comes from?

 

Are you not getting any compensation?

 

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1 hour ago, RenegadeFurther said:

What happens in a normal situation when companies get rid of employees? It is really not the states job to pay every employee a salary.

 

When that is the social contract, then, yes, it is.

 

3 hours ago, AlexTr said:

Since all of these employees pay taxes and statutory insurances, including unemployment insurance,  and all of these companies match that, and given the fact that it is literally called unemployment insurance,  please @RenegadeFurther, can you explain how cashing in on an insurance policy you've paid for is getting bailed out when KA funds come out of that same fund?

 

3 hours ago, AlexTr said:

 

Why are you refusing to respond?

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3 hours ago, RenegadeFurther said:

What happens in a normal situation when companies get rid of employees? It is really not the states job to pay every employee a salary.

But this crisis is regulated under the Infection Protection Act, ISPG whereby, under §56IFSG , if people are sent into quarantine by the authorities, they shall be financially compensated.

Got the info in English from a lawyer today.

 

AND, hopefully , to mitigate the short term (?) economic fall out:

 

 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52273988

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2 hours ago, john g. said:

 

 

AND, hopefully , to mitigate the short term (?) economic fall out:

 

 

UK but applicable to Germany.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/13/britain-coronavirus-bailout-rich-

 

The answer lies principally in a massive expansion of debt. Wage support is being funded by large-scale public borrowing of the kind we were told was unaffordable just a few months ago (although this is now being supplemented by direct financing with newly created money from the Bank of England). Yes, this could usher in a new era of state intervention – but it could just as easily herald a new era of austerity.

Meanwhile, mortgage and rent “holidays” and guaranteed loans for small businesses require people to take on private debts that they will have to pay back when the crisis is over. One way or another, then, the bulk of the costs will still eventually be borne by ordinary people.

On the other hand, virtually no sacrifices have been demanded of banks, landlords or profitable corporations, such as utility companies. The only people in society not being asked to share the burden are “rentiers”: those who make money by owning assets they can charge others to use.

 

 

 

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Can you please answer the other questions that were directed at you?

 

 

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12 minutes ago, SpiderPig said:

Can you please answer the other questions that were directed at you?

 

 

which one was that? The article I posted maybe has the answer.

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4 hours ago, AlexTr said:

 

When that is the social contract, then, yes, it is.

 

Ok will respond.

 

So what is the point of the Dax, Dow jones, ASX?

 

Should we just ignore the free market?

 

8 hours ago, AlexTr said:

 

I posted an article from the Guardian (UK but applicable to Germany)

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/13/britain-coronavirus-bailout-rich-

 

The answer lies principally in a massive expansion of debt. Wage support is being funded by large-scale public borrowing of the kind we were told was unaffordable just a few months ago (although this is now being supplemented by direct financing with newly created money from the Bank of England). Yes, this could usher in a new era of state intervention – but it could just as easily herald a new era of austerity.

Meanwhile, mortgage and rent “holidays” and guaranteed loans for small businesses require people to take on private debts that they will have to pay back when the crisis is over. One way or another, then, the bulk of the costs will still eventually be borne by ordinary people.

On the other hand, virtually no sacrifices have been demanded of banks, landlords or profitable corporations, such as utility companies. The only people in society not being asked to share the burden are “rentiers”: those who make money by owning assets they can charge others to use.

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5 hours ago, SpiderPig said:

Why are you bothered about where the money comes from?

 

Are you not getting any compensation?

 

This one!

 

 

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5 hours ago, SpiderPig said:

Why are you bothered about where the money comes from?

 

 

I have savings(for my daughter) in the UK and Germany which is about to be destroyed by QE (bond purchasing by the ECB which funds Government debt) and inflation.

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Do you mean savings or Investments?

 

 

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16 minutes ago, RenegadeFurther said:

Ok will respond.

 

So what is the point of the Dax, Dow jones, ASX?

 

Should we just ignore the free market?

 

 

I posted an article from the Guardian (UK but applicable to Germany)

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/13/britain-coronavirus-bailout-rich-

 

The answer lies principally in a massive expansion of debt. Wage support is being funded by large-scale public borrowing of the kind we were told was unaffordable just a few months ago (although this is now being supplemented by direct financing with newly created money from the Bank of England). Yes, this could usher in a new era of state intervention – but it could just as easily herald a new era of austerity.

Meanwhile, mortgage and rent “holidays” and guaranteed loans for small businesses require people to take on private debts that they will have to pay back when the crisis is over. One way or another, then, the bulk of the costs will still eventually be borne by ordinary people.

On the other hand, virtually no sacrifices have been demanded of banks, landlords or profitable corporations, such as utility companies. The only people in society not being asked to share the burden are “rentiers”: those who make money by owning assets they can charge others to use.

This is a serious point, no doubt. What is the role of banks, private utility companies, the “ free “ market v. publicly  owned, buying stuff from China which could be produced closer to home and all the rest of it.

Which globalism should be less globalist and which more and how? 
And how to prevent a recession now like hardly ever in modern history.

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