The laws about employees and Kurzarbeit

135 posts in this topic

Saying that this is the procedure probably was a mistake, I have no confirmation or infirmation from my colleagues that they are also self paying the contributions, but I would incline to believe that they are not, as they don't seem to have the same issue as me from what I see.

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43 minutes ago, engelchen said:

 

 

 

I actually know people who opted for public health insurance despite earning enough to go private and who are required to forward both their own and their employer's contributions to the Kasse

That`s why I said people earning a normal wage and sorry 5-6k to me is not a normal wage it`s in the territory of going private

 

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Cheaper, for sure but only if you are healthy and no previous medical conditions.

I explored that but then I realized it doesn't help especially if your job is not super stable.

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1 hour ago, engelchen said:

I actually know people who opted for public health insurance despite earning enough to go private and who are required to forward both their own and their employer's contributions to the Kasse

 yes that is freiwilligversichert and as far as I know (and as far as TK says) that is the only time the employee can pay directly

 

eta:  sorry the reply was premature (happy clicking).  I am freiwilligversichert with TK but my employers have always been willing to pay the premiums on my behalf.  AFAIK it's up to the employer whether they are willing to do it (or just personal choice to pay yourself)

 

but that's kind of the strange part here:  regardless of whether he is near or over the premium cap, he should only be required (or allowed) to pay the kasse directly if he is freiwilligversichert - he says he is not freiwillig so something is strange.

 

then he says he explored taking private insurance instead of public.

 

no freaking idea.

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2 hours ago, engelchen said:

Beitragsbemessungsgrenze and freiwillige Versicherung

 

I decided to rise to your challenge and just did, and in fact the Beitragmessungsgrenze is lower at 4687,50/m tEuro monatlich (56.250 Euro jähhan the freiwillig Versichreungs limit of 5212,50/m  (I thought it was reversed with the beitragsgrenze slightly higher than the limit for being gesetzlicheversichert)

 

So if he is in fact freiwillig (sounds like it) then the fact that he is paying the premium is kosher.

 

whether his kurzarbeit salary takes him under 4687,50 gross and might carry a lower premium is up to him to calculate. 

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Can anybody explain what this freiwillig means also to me?

I was employed for 5 years and my employer payed everything to TK, then unemployed 3 months and then I got employed again only that my employer didn't want to pay anymore.

I did not do anything to switch to freiwillig, and my salary didn't change so much in the meantime.

Can I find out if I am freiwillig on Meine TK at least to clear this out?

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if you earn more than  5212,50/m  you are freiwillig because you are not REQUIRED to be a member of a public krankenkasse - you are a voluntary member.

 

the reason it would matter to you is that if you are freiwillig in a non-private kasse, your employer is not required to pay your kv premiums to the kasse.  which would mean it's totally legit (no not nice but legit) that you are paying the premiums yourself and there isn't much you can do about it (wrt your employer)

 

I have no idea what that means when you are collecting unemployment benefits but since your "pay" is still coming through the employer I would not count on the arbeitsamt to pay your kasse, but you could/should ask them.  regarding the amount of your premium, I have no idea how it works under kurzarbeit scenarios but I tend to think you should not be on the hook for the portion that would normally be paid by your employer.  If it were me I'd ask the arbeitsamt about that too.

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I just found out that I am freiwillig by printing a Bescheinigung from TK:

gern bestätigen wir Ihnen, dass Sie seit dem 1. Juli 2013 bei uns als Mitglied versichert sind.In der Krankenversicherung sind Sie seit dem 1. Oktober 2018 freiwillig versichert. In der TK-Pflegeversicherung sind Sie versicherungspflichtig.

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Ok, as a matter of fact yes I have now a lot of time to dedicate to this issue.

But in principle TK should know what to do in my case, so their reply that I must pay the full Beitrag is either BS or a misunderstanding.

I just sent them also a message in English, hopefully that clears things a little bit.

I think somehow just the ArbeitsAmt needs to be notified by my situation, so they know to pay directly the KV to TK?

But isn't this already done in case of KUG 0%?

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3 minutes ago, bbogdanmircea said:

But in principle TK should know what to do in my case, so their reply that I must pay the full Beitrag is either BS or a misunderstanding.

 

or perhaps they are correct.  Have you verified that your employer will not be paying you the appropriate share of your kv costs along with your arbeitslosengeld?  

 

please do let us know if you have any updates

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My sister in law works in an Augenzentrum and all employees will go in to Kurzarbeit starting april all the way to september!.

As a nanny I feel I should be working more now- its not the case, my bosses are doing home office. I feel soon i will be falling in to kurzarbeit also. I guess am not there yet because I just had a car accident at work so am into “sick” papers. 

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KUG_Calculator.png.64a4c0c7c84c53015228c

This really seems to help for the calculation, but the question how much is the Ist-Entgellt for KUG 0%, is it 0?

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Hi, kind of a segway here. How does working time function during KA? My company recently went into KA with a X % of the wage being covered by the company itself, and 60/67% of the difference covered by KAGeld. We were told in a big all hands that we are supposed to work said X % of the time, but some executives are going around guilt-tripping people into continuing putting in as many hours as they can. Is this legal? Are employees protected? What happens if someone is laid off because they only want to stick to the X % working time? We don't have a Workers' Council. Thanks a lot!

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43 minutes ago, zeox said:

We were told in a big all hands that we are supposed to work said X % of the time, but some executives are going around guilt-tripping people into continuing putting in as many hours as they can. Is this legal?

 

I don't think so

 

You could just refrain from working the overhours or you could report them to the Arbeitsamt if you have some hard proof - that sounds like benefits fraud to me.

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15 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

 

I don't think so

 

You could just refrain from working the overhours or you could report them to the Arbeitsamt if you have some hard proof - that sounds like benefits fraud to me.

I believe it is even illegal to put People on "Kurzarbeitergeld" while they still have unpaid Overtime on their account

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1 minute ago, karin_brenig said:

I believe it is even illegal to put People on "Kurzarbeitergeld" while they still have unpaid Overtime on their account

 

Well, let's say that many startups in Berlin do not really track or compensate overtime, instead they rely on every employee to manage their own time.

The issue here is that there are many employees that stick to the 8-hour day, and likely will stick to the reduced work time now, but may be facing pressure or consequences for doing so. Hopefully the law is protecting them in these cases.

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