Ripped off by a Steuerberater

[bariboy 46]

Hi all, I'm new to the forum and desperately in need of help.

 

Will try to make a long story short. I'm a freelancer and I moved to Germany last January. Up until April my only client was based in England, therefore I invoiced no VAT - I started invoicing & returning it (through Elster) since May on. About 10 days ago I got a letter from the Finanzamt demanding payment of VAT for the timeframe Jan-Apr. They calculated a rounded-up average of my monthly earnings and asked me pay the relevant VAT based on the assumption that I had received it but failed to return it.

 

Unfortunately I didn't feel confident enough to go to the Finanzamt and clarify the misunderstanding in my pigeon German, so I resorted to a tax advisor. The company was recommended by a couple of folk I know, who were already their clients, had had the same problem with the Finanzamt and got it sorted free of charge, out of courtesy. Basically, I thought it would be relatively cheap - the hourly fee was about 30 € and they just had to send a fax.

 

The good news is that the Finanzamt acknowledged their request was unjustified. The bad news is that two days ago I got a copy of the fax they sent to the Finanzamt alongside with the bill. I was gobsmacked to find out that single fax + 20 minutes' talk cost me 900 €! Early this morning I went to the Verbraucherzentrale and was told they don't do bills (I wonder what they do then...) and I should talk to a lawyer, which obviously makes no sense as a lawyer would cost me just about the money they'd save me, if not more.

 

I honestly feel that I'm a victim of fraud and just can't believe that a tax advisor can get away with that in Germany. Does any of you know if there's any action can be taken to object to the payment without consulting a lawyer? Something like a Citizens' Advice Bureau, for example?

[westvan 9,706]

Umm, the Verbraucherzentrale IS the Citizen's Advice Buro. Getting a lawyer is probably the best idea.

[El Jeffo 42,134]

I'm not sure you have much recourse. German accountants work on a fixed scale that is based on the amount involved (much like lawyers). What was the amount of the disputed VAT?

 

You might make an inquiry with the Hessian Accountants' Chamber, but I can't promise it will help.

[sarabyrd 18,767]

Get in touch with the Steuerberaterkammer Hessen and ask them to review the bill. Explain which information was provided up front and which measures were taken. Does the bill include a breakdown of the guy's charged hours? See if you can contest them.

[bariboy 46]

The bill does include a breakdown. To be honest it's a bit obscure, but there's a couple of items that shouldn't be there, I think. Obviously I'm biased though! Anyway, the accounting specialist of my German client has kindly offered to review the bill and call the tax advisor, so we'll see what happens.

 

The disputed sum was 3800 €. That means the Steuerberaterin (sorry, forgot to mention it's a she) is asking for almost 30% of that. It's not a bill - it's a licence to print money! Bloody daylight robbers, they should be wearing a mask!

[trek11000 645]

Any developments?

[bariboy 46]

Hi there, first of all thanks for your answers. This morning I was at my main client's. Their accountant had a look at the bill and she said she "would be very surprised if it was legal". She explained that tax advisors shouldn't invoice on a fixed scale if there's no actual "amount involved" ie the tax authorities admitted their request wasn't legitimate, so the service provided in this case is completely different from, say, filing the annual income tax.

 

To be honest I'm not too sure about that and don't hold much hope, but the accountant is going to show the bill to their legal department for confirmation. Will let you know what happens next...

[sarabyrd 18,767]

So you haven't tried the Steuerberaterkammer yet? Handing the invoice to various accountants and legal departments is like asking an expat forum for advice on German tax consultant fees.

Oh, wait ...

[bariboy 46]

Hi again, in case anyone was curious to know what happened...

 

I just received confirmation that the tax advisor has agreed to cancel the old bill and write a new one after my client's intervention. The new bill will be 250 € cheaper, which means it's still shockingly expensive but I suppose it's better than nothing :-)

 

Thanks to those who replied and tried to help!

[El Jeffo 42,134]

Thanks for letting us know the follow-up. Make sure to complain to the Steuerberaterkammer anyway.

[sarabyrd 18,767]

Yay, champagne at bariboy's!

[PeterDe 1]

@El Jeffo: German accountants charge you based on what you are making? Is that really true?

[Zeppelin 191]

call it market economics or whatever you will, but many accountants work on a sliding scale that may or may not be based on income or other factors.

 

it seems, for a good rule of thumb, speak to TTs Starshollow to get a rough idea. Ive personally not spoken to him yet, but damn i wish I had 3 years ago and avoided the shit you are dealing with now.

[rose74 0]

I went to meet a tax adviser, we talk for a hour. Then I have not heard about my questions asked in that meeting for long time.. I got my papers in order and had a tel meeting later on. Then got no answers still. Then I wrote an email with several point and got very poorly answered then now she billed me for 5 hours!! Over all she actually did not execute tax returns or written any German word regarding what forms etc not even applied for my tax number etc

 

So is there place to complain.. I have written no service level agreement with the tax adviser all in email and very little evidence that she gave me advise I was seeking for

 

I am dreading to start a fight directly

 

Is there a watch dog kind of place to complain and get help

 

Thanks

 

[adminmerge][/adminmerge]

[PandaMunich 16,704]

 

I have written no service level agreement with the tax adviser all in email and very little evidence that she gave me advise I was seeking for

 

Sorry, but in Germany, if you go to a Steuerberater, you don't have to sign an explicit document stating their fee structure, because all of them have to charge the same by law, and people who go there know that they will be charged accordingly.

 

The law governing their fees is the Steuerberatervergütungsverordnung (StBVV), and, if no "value" for your case can be estimated, e.g. if you just asked her general questions, then she has to charge by the hour.

 

The hourly rates are set down in §13 StBVV:

 

• "30 bis 70 Euro je angefangene halbe Stunde"
  = 30€ to 70€ per started half-hour, i.e. 60€ to 140€ per hour, depending on how difficult she rates your questions
  

 

Only if she charged you more than 140€ an hour would she have had to have your explicit prior written consent to charging you more than set down in this law.

This consent is usually given by having you sign a Honorar-Vereinbarung stating those higher hourly fees.

 

So, in your case, since you didn't sign anything, only if she charged you more than 140€ an hour can you complain about her bill.

The correct institution to complain to in this case would be her local Steuerberaterkammer, just google Steuerberaterkammer and the name of the city she works in.

[Guest]

Hi PandaMunich,

 

Good to come across your post.

 

I have been in contact with a Steuerberater that a friend recommended. A young but very knowledgeable guy (as my friend describes him) that takes care of my friend's company taxes.

I had a initial call (30 minutes) with him where he gave me plently of valuable info regarding my situation and quoted me 500+ for the yearly tax return (2014) which seems very decent. We agreed to meet later in August as we have plenty of time.

 

Few days ago I emailed him a question reg. international taxes, and since I was waiting for a quick answer, I told him I'd be happy to pay for his time (I am also a freelancer and charge for general advice).

However, he responded that his hourly rate is 150 euros excluding VAT, and it took him 30 minutes to reply. Besides the fact I am not happy with the answer (he wrote, "I do not have a clear answer", and that his answer contain perhaps 200 words and didn't seem to take 30 minutes), and that he's a young guy with probably not many years of experience, I felt his rate was pretty high so I came to check on TT.

 

I am being ripped off?

[PandaMunich 16,704]

Well, he is allowed to charge up to 140€ + VAT (VAT is always added to the rates quoted in the law), so there isn't that much a difference between his rate and the standard rate.

 

Since you are a VAT-charging freelancer, that VAT is anyway only a "durchgehender Posten" in your accounting, since you immediately get it back with your Umsatzsteuervoranmeldung.

So we are talking about the difference between 140€ and 150€ an hour, i.e. 10€ an hour.

 

It's your decision what you want to do now, but you should know that most Steuerberater who are willing and able to respond in English tend to have hourly rates above the 200€ mark, and make you sign a Honorarvereinbarung so as to charge you these rates completely legally.

[Guest]

There's software such as this one which makes it very straightforward to file your tax return if you're a freelancer/self-employed. It costs peanuts compared to a real Steuerberater. I suggest first trying to complete the tax return using such software. If for whatever reason that doesn't work out, then you can hire a Steuerberater (at 10+ times the price).

 

PS: even if you don't end up filing via the software, simply using it will teach you a lot about taxes. That's very useful knowledge, especially if you're self-employed.

[Guest]

 

It's your decision what you want to do now, but you should know that most Steuerberater who are willing and able to respond in English tend to have hourly rates above the 200€ mark, and make you sign a Honorarvereinbarung so as to charge you these rates completely legally.

Thanks PandaMunich. You are right, I asked another english-speaking tax consultant and the hourly rate is above 200 euros.

I will make sure I only communicate by phone so I have more control over the answers I am looking for and how detailed I want them to be (hence duration), and will see from there. Thanks again!!

[Saamo 8]

[adminmerge][/adminmerge]

 

Hello TTers,

 

So, here is the thing.

 

I contacted a taxes adviser to make my tax return for 2012, as I am new in Germany and don't know the process yet.

 

I gave him the documents and my info, and he said he will have it ready in a week or two, but it took him about 1.5 months!

 

During this period, I totally lost hope, he never answered my calls nor emails, a thing that made me look for another adviser.

 

Now, the second adviser finished my return, with more money for me (tax return), and I applied it to the Finanzamt...surprisingly, the first adviser contacted me and said that he had finished my return (less money back), and waiting for me to pay him so that he can send me the papers.

 

Now, my question is, how do I tell the first guy...you are fired sort of thing?

 

Some info:

1) there are no legal signed documents between me and the two advisers, they were both contacted my email and nothing more than this. (private advisers I guess)

 

If I told him "I choose another adviser because you were late", can he take it further into a legal issue?

What do you advise me to say to him, so he can understand we are no longer doing this?

 

As always...appreciating your feedback

Hossam.